Marathon 1 Redux

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

How much ammo should the Trooper's SMG carry?

9 bullets and 4 grenades, just as a Grey trooper from YTYBTYGDBT fires
1
33%
18 bullets and 4 grenades
2
67%
18 bullets and 8 grenades
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 3

Marathon 1 Redux

Post Jan 6th '18, 23:53

A project to give Marathon 1 a facelift, incorporating the new features of Aleph One to flesh out and add realism to the Marathon's architecture. Also, to develop and branch the storyline, add in cut features like the shock staff, bomb on Shake Before Using, the security detachment on Bob-B-Q, and the egg question. Potentially to include levels on the colony moon.

Currently in the alpha stage, with two levels demonstrating ideas I'd like to incorporate. It is playable, but buggy, and by no means feature-compete- it's basically just a concept demo at this point.

http://simplici7y.com/items/marathon-1-redux

BiggerGunsNearby_0035.png
Reimagined architecture


BiggerGunsNearby_0037.png
Alien weapons for use in liquid environments


BiggerGunsNearby_0036.png
New terminals


BiggerGunsNearby_0043.png
External vistas


BiggerGunsNearby_0040.png
Teleporting items and aliens


Thanks to General Tacticus for his HD weapons & 3D scenery, treelama for helping me get ShapesFusion working, and to Craig Hardgrove over at http://themarathonmusic.com/ for his soundtrack, and of course everyone who has gone before me to make this possible!

I'm happy to slowly plug away at this project on my own, but I'd love to have help and input from the community to make this a faithful and worthy facelift/expansion. Help in any area is welcome! Want to revamp an M1 level, redraw a chapter screen, or create terminal art? Go for it! Got story ideas? PM me!
Last edited by ravenshining on Jan 22nd '18, 07:42, edited 11 times in total.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 7th '18, 00:56

Hmm, interesting stuff. And these are original map designs, yes? This will be worth it.
I don't want you to lose hope, but I think this would work better as an extension of Marathon 1's story, rather than treading on old ground. Make interwoven levels into the original game to improve the pacing and storytelling, maybe a Mirata level and a final cryogenic ceremonial level. This isn't to say that pointless levels like Colony and Neither need remakes, they disparately do. Don;t bother with pfhor levels, unless you plan on making your own, in which, I would love to watch you brainstorm some ideas and concepts for one.

I have very little experience with linux besides using Bash, But I assume you can just run Shapefusion from within wine?
Are you saying you need an executable of ShapeFusion, if so, here is the zip file for windows: https://sourceforge.net/projects/shapef ... urce=files

How'd you get M1 te- oh, you're using the hd packs for M1 inside of the M2/Minf engine, I might advise against this because in the future, we might want to make a repackaged version of M1's textures for M2 and your textures would be scrambled.

So recap:
-Don't fix what ain't broken
-Don't let anyone stop you
-Don't spoil everything
-Don't do it all in an inefficacious work environment
Flippant Sol

Post Jan 7th '18, 03:50

Yes, novelty is important, and the plan is for this to have a branching storyline, as the authors originallly intended. So, if you play a certain way, it will go as the original, but depending on your choices or performance, you may have to stop the bomb in engineering, fight the Pfhor on the colony moon (There is a fifth wall collection for this), have easier/harder versions of levels, see whether or not the colonists survive and whether you wind up in the hands or Durandal or Tycho. And yes, I agree that the Pfhor levels are already quite excellent and I don't plan with messing with those more than necessary.

Many of the Marathon levels suffer from not being a believable space, and I think this was particularly evident on Bigger Guns Nearby, which is why I've chosen it at my first demo level. The original layout feels very arbitrary and game-y, so I've taken it, and while remaining faithful to the basic layout have expanded on it to make it feel more like a place that has an actual in-universe function.

Wine is not something I've learned how to use yet.

Currently this is running as a map/shapes/sounds under M1A1, and so the M1A1 HD walls mostly work. As it becomes more complete it will have to migrate out of M1A1, shucking off a lot of the weird M1A1 scripting that is currently causing problems. I'm not sure what you mean about the scrambling of textures.

I'm seriously grateful for Vasara, which has massively streamlined my mapmaking workflow. What skepticisms I had a few days ago have been put to rest, and it's enabled me to abandon Forge and do everything architectural natively, rather than bouncing in and out of the VM.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 7th '18, 04:54

Release hereby pushed back to Monday on account of my home internet connection apparently being incapable of reliably uploading a 17 MB zip file. I'll have to stick it on a flash drive and take it to the library to upload via broadband.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 9th '18, 00:13

Simplicity download is up! I managed to cram in some vacuum features yesterday and pile them into a copy of G4 Sunbathing I was messing with back in July, so there are not one but two levels (no new architecture in G4 yet). It's not much at this point, but let me know what y'all think!
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ravenshining

Post Jan 9th '18, 01:44

Looks promising thus far! The map definitely feels more cohesive than the original.

Something I noticed is that some bits of scenery (the cube thing and cylinder) constantly rotate/flip. Was that intentional?
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Jan 9th '18, 06:31

Thanks! No, that's definitely not intentional. I need to run the 1-10 twiddler on the shapesfile.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 14th '18, 13:54

It's been a massively productive week, but due to the Birthday of Martin Luther King Jr., upload of version 0.0.2a will be delayed until Tuesday.

The biggest change and main focus of my efforts this week is that M1R will now be it's own, stand-alone scenario- no need for M1A1! Lots of little things have been updated in the process of writing the scripts necessary for this move, as well as updates to the Images file.

For an audio treat, I have obtained permission from Craig Hardgrove to use his music as the soundtrack. In addition to level music, the M1 startup sound behaviour is restored, and music will play after it's conclusion (or after a delay if you impatiently click through the startup)

Scenery should now be 100% functional. Hitboxes are correct, lots of things are breakable including jjaro lamps and railings, and there are no unwanted animations.

Juggernaut sprite updated with new missle-launching animation and some glowing engine bits. Fixes to the shock staff, alien weapon, SMG, trooper. Lots and lots of cruft cleared out of the shapesfile. My own Tau Ceti starscape is now included and rewitten to work with this.

G4Sunbathing_0015.png


Minor geometry updates to BGN: altering the path, live macerators, lighting and texturing fixes/improvements. More new terminal images. Items fixed on G4 - no more extravision and SPNKRs. Fixed issue with persistent explosions, defined more vacuum sounds.

Probably other minor changes not listed. Thanks to treelama for gently guiding me to getting ShapesFusion running! If you're reading this and haven't checked your PMs, I'd like your permission to include altered Glade files so others can help build maps for this project if they so desire. Failing that, I'll include a text file with the name lists absent code.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 15th '18, 02:35

Looking forward to it! ^^

(Psst--what say about those ideas I shared with you over PM?)
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Jan 15th '18, 04:01

I don't think I'll be going with your story. And as much as I'd like to do more about MIDA, I'm concerned there may be copyright issues now that MIDA lore has found its way into Destiny.

I'm not going to make Leela blue - all three AIs will be green as long as they are human-made Marathon AIs. I'll consider the idea of using red text for Tycho, but only post-reanimation, and I'd like to hear more people's opinion. If I do use blue text, it will be representing the player's suit systems as it does in M2.

And finally I will not confirm or deny the involvement of colony AIs at this early stage. I may make a separate spoilers thread for the community to bounce around story ideas, but right now I'm focusing on the basics.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 15th '18, 05:35

ravenshining wrote:And as much as I'd like to do more about MIDA, I'm concerned there may be copyright issues now that MIDA lore has found its way into Destiny.


Would there really be that much of a problem? They're both Bungie titles (I don't think Activision has that much say in Destiny's story) and that MIDA-related info is explicitly coming from an alternate timeline, presumably the main Marathon one.
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General-RADIX

Post Jan 15th '18, 11:23

ravenshining wrote: I'll consider the idea of using red text for Tycho, but only post-reanimation, and I'd like to hear more people's opinion. If I do use blue text, it will be representing the player's suit systems as it does in M2.

I think Tycho using red text post-rampancy would be a good touch, as he actually does use red text in M2 (and M3, but in M3 he uses the Pfhor insignia, not the classic Marathon icon)
Attachments
Capture7.PNG
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Flowers

Post Jan 15th '18, 21:09

Flowers wrote:I think Tycho using red text post-rampancy would be a good touch, as he actually does use red text in M2 (and M3, but in M3 he uses the Pfhor insignia, not the classic Marathon icon)


Noted!

General-RADIX wrote:Would there really be that much of a problem? They're both Bungie titles (I don't think Activision has that much say in Destiny's story) and that MIDA-related info is explicitly coming from an alternate timeline, presumably the main Marathon one.


Bungie has released Marathon for us to play with, they haven't released Destiny. I could do something, maybe even incorporate an element of your suggestion, but I want to make sure I don't use anything Destiny introduced - ie no MIDA multi tool references.

On the other hand, MIDA is a great excuse to make secret weapon caches, and I may have story reasons for them, too. With a branching storyline, I'll want to make it possible to save all the BOBs on The Rose and Bob-b-q, and so having the player go in better-armed IF they have been observant enough to search out MIDA caches could be one way of making that work (the other way, which I usually hack in for my solo playthroughs, is to arm the BOBs)

While I may not use the whole staring-at-the-wall thing, having MIDA graffiti could be a nice touch.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 16th '18, 12:14

I see!

Yannow, that gets me wondering: in the route(s) where you're able to save more people, does MIDA start getting really annoyed that someone keeps pilfering their ammo? Prolly too early in development to consider extra level(s) where they hunt down the SO, but maybe it'd lead to a couple foreshadow-y terminals where someone's like "who keeps breaking into our storage areas, goddammit" Which the SO should find odd, because those areas aren't the ones designated for the security team.
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Jan 17th '18, 02:45

Relase 0.0.2a delayed due to staff shortages at our local library. I'll try to get it up Friday.

Meanwhile, General Tacticus has kindly granted permission to bundle his 3D scenery and HD weapons in, and I've been working to get those MML'd to work. So far I've got his scenery, items, and effects working, but I'm having difficulty with the weapons-in-hand showing up really tiny.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 17th '18, 10:53

Oh, you will have to use a patch to replace the default bitmaps

Here's the shapes file that contains the needed bitmaps.

You will need to copy/paste the bitmaps into a duplicate of your shapes file, and then use that with the original to make a shapes patch.
Attachments
M1_Shapes Patcher.shpA.zip
(1.84 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
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General Tacticus

Post Jan 17th '18, 17:17

Thanks! I figured it was something like that, but it can be hard when using a patch to find exactly what was changed.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 19th '18, 22:38

Version 0.0.2 is up at Simplici7y! Try it out, tell me what you think, let me know of any bugs, or compile yourself a Weland with the included glade files and join the endeavor!
http://simplici7y.com/items/marathon-1-redux

To conserve bandwidth, I've kept out music tracks that are not yet used, and HD textures that are not used on Bigger Guns Nearby. They will be brought in for future versions as necessary.

Since my last post I've gotten General Tacticus's HD weapons fully functional. This includes some editing to create the extra frames needed for the fusion pistol and rocket launcher. Also, while I was at it I took the liberty of re-proportioning a few sprites that were off, and converted the Weapons-in-hand collection to DDS. Oh, yeah, and the fusion pistol has glowmaps now - they still need work, but I think you'll enjoy the effect.

I've also spruced up the first and last frames of the shock staff animation, the first also has a glow map. The recoil has been nerfed. At 100 it was way too easy to climb. Now at 70 you can't climb, but you can manage a decent jump, it still needs fine tuning. It would be nicer to have code support for grenade climbing an infinity map, but I hope this will do in the meantime.

The trooper SMG has been heavily nerfed- it now fires at the proper rate of speed, and has all of 9 bullets and 2 grenades per (shared) magazine - the troopers don't fire more than that at once, so neither can you! Both it and the alien weapon are now slightly to the right.

As this is a just a concept and no features are intended to be final, I've been playing with some ideas for alt-fire on the single-purpose weapons that I hope are not too sacreligious or broken. Cheat them in, try them out and tell me what you think. One spoiler: most aliens are immune to the alien weapon alt fire, and the Enforcer is set to attack such aliens with said ineffective fire in keeping with their terminal description.

Because of this weapon focus there is not much new in the way of geometry other than what I mentioned before, absent any more plugin work I hope for that to be my focus for 0.0.3a.
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ravenshining

Post Jan 20th '18, 15:20

Just had a look through the old version; it's definitely looking better than v0.0.1. Interface graphics for the shock staff go out-of-bounds, but I'm guessing that'll be fixed later.
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General-RADIX

Post Jan 20th '18, 19:36

Very nice effort on this, I think. I like all of the architectural changes on Bigger Guns Nearby and I like the clever changes to the sound effects on G4 Sunbathing. So far, however, I'm not really seeing the value of the Pfhor Shock Staff or the Trooper Gun - these should be interesting weapons to use, but with their extremely limited amount of ammo, they just feel far too weak to be useful. I would also really like it if at some point you could create a modified version of the Enhanced HUD that would work with this scenario - just a little something to add to your to-do list.

Also, a few little bugs: first, the animated texture on the 1x shield charger on Bigger Guns Nearby doesn't seem to work; second, the game crashed after the first time the song 'Landing' played through on G4 Sunbathing - this was after starting on Bigger Guns Nearby and playing through to G4 Sunbathing, so maybe the continuing music from the previous level messed things up somehow; not entirely sure what to make of either of those.

I think this project has great potential - keep up the good work! ;)
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jan 21st '18, 01:00

General-RADIX wrote:Just had a look through the old version; it's definitely looking better than v0.0.1. Interface graphics for the shock staff go out-of-bounds, but I'm guessing that'll be fixed later.


Yes, I'm aware of that issue, but thank you for noticing. Fixing the M1A1 HUD is not a priority as I want to get the enhanced HUD working.

PerseusSpartacus wrote:Very nice effort on this, I think. I like all of the architectural changes on Bigger Guns Nearby and I like the clever changes to the sound effects on G4 Sunbathing. So far, however, I'm not really seeing the value of the Pfhor Shock Staff or the Trooper Gun - these should be interesting weapons to use, but with their extremely limited amount of ammo, they just feel far too weak to be useful.


At the same time, I don't want them to bee too overpowered or unbalance the ammo distribution. Another way to think of the shock staff is like the shotgun, where you save up shells until you can go on a shotgunning spree... but that doesn't work as well for the trooper SMG. I set those limits to be consistent with the Blue Fighter and Purple Trooper, but I may have a look at the grey variants, and maybe lower the theta error.

PerseusSpartacus wrote:I would also really like it if at some point you could create a modified version of the Enhanced HUD that would work with this scenario - just a little something to add to your to-do list.


That is definitely on my to-do list!

PerseusSpartacus wrote:Also, a few little bugs: first, the animated texture on the 1x shield charger on Bigger Guns Nearby doesn't seem to work;


Ah, I accidentally put a texture on a transparent side while using Vasara, and forgot to go into Weland to remove it. Thanks for pointing it out!

PerseusSpartacus wrote:second, the game crashed after the first time the song 'Landing' played through on G4 Sunbathing - this was after starting on Bigger Guns Nearby and playing through to G4 Sunbathing, so maybe the continuing music from the previous level messed things up somehow; not entirely sure what to make of either of those.

I think this project has great potential - keep up the good work! ;)


That I have no idea why it would happen. Are you sure you were hearing "Landing?" I set it up to play "swirls" (it fits better with the near-silence) and "landing" is not included in the zip yet. I tried it out myself, and I didn't get a crash when Swirls came on a second time, but the terminal did spit out a few error messages:
Code: Select all
[mp3 @ 0x12b617a0] overread, skip -7 enddists: -6 -6
[mp3 @ 0x12b617a0] overread, skip -5 enddists: -4 -4
[mp3 @ 0x12b617a0] overread, skip -7 enddists: -6 -6
[mp3 @ 0x12b617a0] overread, skip -7 enddists: -6 -6
[mp3 @ 0x12b617a0] overread, skip -5 enddists: -4 -4

Also much earlier, buried amongst all the libpng warnings about colour profiles and interlacing that A1 always gives me, there's:
Code: Select all
[mp3 @ 0x14e1e840] Estimating duration from bitrate, this may be inaccurate

I don't know what those mean, but can you launch A1 from a terminal and see if you get the same errors?
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ravenshining

Post Jan 21st '18, 02:17

Perseus might be experiencing the music loop bug.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jan 21st '18, 22:42

Hm, I don't see anything about that on GitHub, SourceForge, or here on the Pfhorums. Is there a fix for his problem? If it's something to do with the way the music is encoded, I have Audacity and could re-encode a track, although there will be a quality and/or filesize hit if I do so.

I took a look at the Grey variants from both YTYBTYGDBT's- alas, Atque spits out something Anvil and Shapesfusion cannot use when demerging Infinity, so I had to do it the observational way: playing on Total Carnage, scientifically slaughtering all but one alien and bringing that one to the point of berserking, and counting their shots. This does not give me theta error information, but it does give me an idea of ammunition and reload timing.

I found the Grey Fighter will fire up to pfhour times in a row. Fair enough, I upped the ammo to 4, took the error down to Blue Fighter levels, and allowed Green fighters to drop ammo in case anyone plays on Kindergarten. I really don't want to allow any more than this, as already at 4 you can mow down Pfhor with their own staff and *gain* ammo, and because it is a weapon accessible on the first level. I may untick the S'pht's weakness to it for balance.

The Grey Trooper fires pfhour grenades, but, and mind you this is not easy to count, it still seems like only 9 bullets. I realise this may be for practical reasons of allowing the monster to move and re-orient as the player moves, so I'll try allowing 18 bullets and 8 grenades and see how that feels. Mind you, the original SMG only fires 16 rounds per magazine, so these are definitely upper limits! Personally I'd prefer to keep it to 9 and 4 (rather than 9 and 2 as I had before).

Here's the modified physics models and an unmerged G4 if you want to test them out before next Friday.
Attachments
G4 Sunbathing.sceA.zip
(36.98 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
G4 Sunbathing.phyA.zip
(3.33 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
Redux Physics.phyA.zip
(3.51 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
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ravenshining

Post Jan 24th '18, 07:04

Random fun note: Working on G4 today, I've discovered that with the combination of Tacticus's 3D Scenery and my Tau Ceti Starscape, the communications antenna can actually be pointed at Sol.

G4Sunbathing_0016.png
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ravenshining



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