Eternal X 1.2

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Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Mar 15th '18, 19:26

I don't think anybody is going to remember (or care) what color each clan is anyway. If it looks like a defender it's a S'pht'Kr otherwise it's another clan.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 15th '18, 19:41

Pfhorrest wrote:Though IIRC the earlier conversations about that were about how what look like well-defined colors to me all look like shades of grey to others, i.e. my color vision is more sensitive.

I'm curious but don't have time to check, what is the hue angle of the color of the standard M2/Infinity minor enforcers? I'm seeing something between 0 and 30, leaning toward 30, which is why I say orange (whereas closer to 0 I'd say red).


Perhaps you see things more saturated - or are accustomed to a less saturated environment - but see less distinction between hues? The M2 major defenders are 0° red, minor S'pht compilers 21° orange, major juggernauts 19° light orange, minor hunters 13° pink.

Anyway I'm getting on the colours as you specified now.

treellama wrote:I don't think anybody is going to remember (or care) what color each clan is anyway. If it looks like a defender it's a S'pht'Kr otherwise it's another clan.


true. The main objective here is to tell apart which S'pht are friendly and which are not, as well as which S'pht are conspicuously absent after you see them earlier.

EDIT
Almost done! For better contrast against the Mnr, I made the Kr slightly off-white. It still looks grey, saturation of only 13%.

s'pht'kr.png
s'pht'kr.png (5.07 KiB) Viewed 1375 times


Also, a nightmare with yellow eyes showed up, I think it looks awesome but I'm fixing it back to green now.

nightmare.png
nightmare.png (3.66 KiB) Viewed 1375 times
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Mar 15th '18, 20:36

ravenshining wrote:The M2 major defenders are 0° red

Huh, well color me surprised. Maybe I was just expecting orange in contrast to the blue, and seeing what I expected. (Also, I think of the Pfhor fighter colors as green-purple-orange-blue, which is what inspired Eternal's color scheme, and I just kinda expect other things in Marathon to follow that too I guess).

true. The main objective here is to tell apart which S'pht are friendly and which are not, as well as which S'pht are conspicuously absent after you see them earlier.

Although if it's not the 'Kr fighting the 'Mnr in the civil war levels, then neither side has any reason to be friendly to you, so there is no friend or foe to distinguish from. And in the S'pht-Pfhor war and the Human-Pfhor wars, all Defenders are on your side, so there's again nothing to distinguish between them.

I just liked your idea for the variety and the little touch of story detail it brings. :)
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 15th '18, 21:48

ravenshining wrote: It took me forever, wandering around the level looking for nonexistent missed switches to realise I had to kill the friendlies to proceed.

Actually only two at most.
If, on the first encounter with the two hunters in the stairwell, you just enter the stairwell, wait for the hunter's challenge, then back out o the stairwell and waste both hunters as they reach the bottom, in many cases one o the hunters will have offed one o the pathetici. This gives you justification for revenge motive.
At the next to the last room, the patheticus there is an inveterate rubberneck, and if you stay on this side o the door, moving side to side to avoid incoming fire, by the time you have wasted the hunters, the patheticus will have been offed by one o the enemies. That gives you justification for feeling superior.

treellama wrote:I don't think anybody is going to remember (or care) what color each clan is anyway.

If there are clues in the terminals throughout the game, there will be some who will attempt to ferret out the relationships. Others will attempt to refute. It's the lore that keeps a game going.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Mar 16th '18, 05:40

i, uh, door you:

Screen Shot 2018-03-15 at 10.33.32 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-15 at 10.33.13 PM.jpg
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 16th '18, 12:40

HelviusRufus wrote:It's the lore that keeps a game going.

OK, but these kind of additions aren't likely to get, for instance, me, more into Eternal. To each his own, of course.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 16th '18, 15:30

I know you didn't ask me, but a lot of these screenshots are looking pretty bad. I don't know if it's because the textures are "trying too hard" for the alephone engine or what, but something about these screenshots just don't feel right. Take the last couple screenshots you took for example. The textures of the wall connecting with the door somehow just feels... super fake. I don't really know how else to put it.

The textures seem to have too much going on in general to fit in with what I'd expect from an alephone scenario. I don't really know how to describe it. Anyway, not expecting you to really do anything with this feedback, but that's my 2 cents.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Mar 16th '18, 17:58

I did ask you actually, and thanks for the input. :) I think there is something of an uncanny valley sort of thing happening wherever two textures with depth and contours meet at a sudden sharp angle and then have to interact like the flat surfaces they really are. I don't really know what to do about it, though. I can see some possible solutions involving redoing lots of little bits of map geometry to make sure textures that would otherwise clash like that would instead be mediated by a thin piece of another texture that ameliorates that effect, but that's way too much work for me to take on for this project.

If anyone has any more specific suggestions for things I can change about the textures to help make this better though, I'm all ears.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 16th '18, 20:51

I cooked up some physics and updated S'pht Happens to test out the new S'pht CLUTs with, but weirdly they aren't showing up. They all appear as having red armour with a yellow bulb, but none of the CLUTs have that colour scheme.

That colour scheme was in a previous version of the shapesfile, but I changed it. I see the new CLUTs in Anvil and ShapeFusion, but in A1 it's all wrong. Maybe something got borked and the old colour table is living in there somewhere, and the references A1 is using are different from the ones Anvil and SF use? Sure wish I knew where to find the shapes file documentation right now.

Can you test this map & physics out with the shapesfile I most recently e-mailed you and see if you get the same problem?

Also, I put a waterfall in that big empty canyon that makes the waterfall noise. It's not done yet, gotta reposition some objects and fix the flow direction. I wish Weland had a compass selector like Forge had, rather than a slider, I can never seem to get the slider right.
Attachments
24 S'pht Happens.zip
(90.17 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Mar 16th '18, 21:41

I see that too, which is the same thing I saw before as well:

Screen Shot 2018-03-16 at 2.59.13 PM.jpg


ETA: And the water on a lava level is freakin' cool! I'd heard that that was possible but never seen it before. I would love to see more mixed media on other levels if you feel like adding that, e.g. water in place of sewage on some (or some parts of) Marathon-set levels, or more water on Lh'owon or some sewage on Lh'owon if appropriate, lava on the Marathon or even on the Sphere somewhere if that ever seems appropriate. That would add a lot of cool variety! (The one thing that immediately comes to mind is that "Flames of Icarus", the port of "My Own Private Thermopylae", could have the water that the original levels has instead of the lava I had to change it to to use the S'pht texture set).

Although, some things seem a little buggy about this implementation. The vertical waterfall texture does not appear to actually be the water texture; I think it's some other blue texture from the "forerunner" set? And I'm a little unsure, but I think the under-media effects are maybe still the lava effects and not the water effects? Or it could be a weird interaction between the water effects and the orange fog on Lh'owon levels?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 16th '18, 23:01

Well, now I know it's a problem with the shapesfile and not my setup. Maybe later I'll try re-doing it from the original that President People sent me.

I could add liquids. It's simple, in Weland when you set up a liquid, there's now a "type" field that lets you select what media type to use. Especially if you want say ALL the lava to be water on Icarus, all I have to do is change the media types for each existing liquid, and then the textures on any lavafalls you may have created.

I tried putting the water texture on the waterfall, unfortunately, it remained transparent and looked really, really bad. So I used something close to it. I'm not sure what tricks to employ that would make it look better, what it really needs is a dedicated waterfall texture. Your forerunner levels may also benefit from such. Something like this:

waterfall.png


All I did there was take the water texture, set the alpha channel to opaque, invert colours, adjust hue 180°, tile it out to 1536x1536, motion blur down 64 pixels, and crop it back to 512*512.

The fader isn't wrong, it's the fog that makes it look weird. In this screenshot, you can see that near your view, things are tinted blue, and far away, they turn orange.

SphtHappens_0001.jpg
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Mar 16th '18, 23:30

On some of the Ch5 levels (like The Dead Live In The Catacombs) there's some really cool-looking waterfalls made out of the transparent water texture, maybe you could emulate those? I kinda don't want to add another texture to the set.

Thanks for sorting out the fader/fog interaction. Is there any way to have different fog under media than above it? That could be useful in general and not just for this purpose, actually...
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 17th '18, 00:38

The MML documentation seems to indicate you can have different fog above and below liquid.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Mar 17th '18, 09:57

Pfhorrest wrote:I did ask you actually, and thanks for the input. :) I think there is something of an uncanny valley sort of thing happening wherever two textures with depth and contours meet at a sudden sharp angle and then have to interact like the flat surfaces they really are. I don't really know what to do about it, though. I can see some possible solutions involving redoing lots of little bits of map geometry to make sure textures that would otherwise clash like that would instead be mediated by a thin piece of another texture that ameliorates that effect, but that's way too much work for me to take on for this project.

If anyone has any more specific suggestions for things I can change about the textures to help make this better though, I'm all ears.


That is one of the problems with bump maps in Aleph One. As far as I know the only practical solution is to tone down the 3d effect so that the "seams" where two textures clash aren't as noticeable.
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JohannesG

Post Mar 17th '18, 11:18

While a different fog may be set for under liquids than above, I don't think you can set a different fog for every media with just MML.

CLUTs are fixed and e-mailed. figured out how to do the waterfall, got the level into playable condition, and uploaded to GitHub

S'pht'Shr and S'pht'Kah face off against juggernauts:
shrkah.jpg


S'pht'Yor, S'pht'Mnr, and S'pht'Lhar get ambushed by enforcers:
yormnrlhar.jpg


waterfall no longer looks upon the void:
waterfall.jpg


I ought to get back to Redux for a bit before I do more Eternal things, but I will return...
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Mar 17th '18, 19:24

ravenshining wrote:While a different fog may be set for under liquids than above, I don't think you can set a different fog for every media with just MML.

Hmm, you can change the color of fog with lua. You could detect when the player is underneath liquid, figure out the liquid type, and set the fog color as needed. This will obviously only be viable in single player.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Mar 17th '18, 22:33

It would work multiplayer too. It’s safe to change fog based on local player.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 18th '18, 02:06

treellama wrote:It would work multiplayer too. It’s safe to change fog based on local player.

Good call. *Starts working on script to give all players except the host 1 WU thick black fog*
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Wrkncacnter

Post Mar 19th '18, 12:11

Not sure why you would announce it rather than just release it on April 1
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 19th '18, 16:18

treellama wrote:just release it on April 1

I would, but I've already got something planned.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Mar 20th '18, 04:40

Pfhorrest wrote:I'm not happy with that window texture but I'm too exhausted to figure out why right now. Maybe it just needs to be darker?

I'm feeling sick tonight so I didn't get any new work done but I made that window texture look a little better:
Screen Shot 2018-03-19 at 9.56.39 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-19 at 9.58.22 PM.jpg
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 21st '18, 06:44

Screen Shot 2018-03-21 at 12.02.58 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-21 at 12.03.01 AM.jpg


obviously misaligned texture is obvious
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 22nd '18, 07:39

jesus fucking christ these switch textures are slow as fuck to work with

Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 12.46.25 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 12.46.32 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 12.49.31 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 12.53.23 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 12.52.27 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 12.52.37 AM.jpg


And with that the Human set is nominally done. I will pack up and upload EX1.2a2 tomorrow night. Last chance for anyone to get anything else they're working on into this release! (Nudge nudge Erich).
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Mar 22nd '18, 21:53

Sorry for the wait! Round 5's here. Finished up the Marine collection, added Tacticus' Fusion sprites, added RavenShining's S'pht'Kr Color Tables, and some other general bitmap optimizations. For example, I recolored a few low-res weapon bitmaps, added cyan back to the Scatter Enforcer weapons, and may have embellished the Pfhor Cyborg Controller a tiny bit while correcting his coloration.

Bit of a PSA to any ShapeFusion 0.6 users out there. I had a problem earlier with creating new Frames in a Shapes file. The Scale Factor for the newly-created frames was 7, which turned out to be a dummy number. I didn't find out until after a whole night of testing and wondering why the new Frames were completely invisible in-game, only to open the Shapes the next day to find they had changed to 0. Inputting the desired Scale Factor fixes the problem.

Spoiler:
Code: Select all
Eternal Data Changes:

• Monsters
 · Nightmare's missing bitmap081.png added


Eternal Scripts Changes:

• weapons.mml
 · Changed Across element for the Fusion Rifle from 21 to 48, fixing the "laggy" ammo
   display on the bar HUD.


Plugins Changes:

• Eternal-Guns
 · Added Tacticus' Fusion Pistol and Fusion Rifle sprites to the Images folder
 · Added a glow map for the Pfhor Staff item to the Images folder
 · Updated mml.mml to include the above images. The Pfhor Staff glowmap isn't
   cooperating, though. I'm probably overlooking something


Eternal Shapes Changes:

• (1) Weapons In Hand
 · (8-bit) Corrected minimum lightness of frames 25 and 26
 · Reversed frame order for the "enforcer.flame.firing" sequence to match M2/M∞
 · Added light pink hue to color table
 · Recolored bitmaps 15-18, and 36-38 slightly

• (3) Tick
 · Corrected Color Table 00's third "Magic" color. Changing it from cyan does not
   make it visible, unfortunately
 · Re-imported the Looker's Bitmaps from Rubicon X, eliminating any errant
   transparent pixels. The claws are also cleaner now
 · Changed First Frame Sound of Sequence "tick.hitting ground" from 49 to 50
 · Changed First Frame Sound of sequence "goo.splat" from 162 to 165
 · Corrected Frame 221's bitmap and origins
 · Added a new Frame and fixed 315° angle of sequence "looker.stand"

• (6) Marine
 · Updated WMC bitmaps and their respective frames and keypoints. It also has a
   muzzle flash now!
 · Updated Havoc Rifle bitmaps and their respective frames and keypoints
 · Added a beige range to the color table for the Havoc Rifle's muzzle flash
 · Recolored violet shades to match the Alien Weapons in the rest of the Shapes file
 · Updated Grav Blade bitmaps and their respective frames and keypoints
 · Changed Tics Per Frame of sequences "Grav Blade Firing" and "Grav Blades x2
   Firing" from 6 to 7. Also changed Transfer Mode Periods from 6 to 7 and 12 to 14,
   respectively
 · Updated Fusion Rifle bitmaps and their respective frames and keypoints
 · Made the light pink hues self-luminescent (Affects the Staff and Grav Blades)
 · Corrected Scale Factors for Frames 211, 227, 398, 400, 409, and 413. So THAT's
   what causes the weird stretching

• (7) Items
 · Updated Fusion Pistol and Fusion Rifle bitmaps and their respective frames
 · Raised Scale Factor for frame 0 from 2 to 3
 · Recolored bitmaps 3, 4, and 20 slightly
 · Updated Bitmap 47. Mothrid was missing its seventh eye

• (10) S'pht'Kr
 · Added 5 new Color Tables by RavenShining

• (11) F'lickta
 · Added sequence "flickmelee"

• (14) Enforcer
 · Removed Color Tables 05, 06, and 07
 · Updated Color Table 04 violet to match the others, though it seems to be unused
 · Returned Enforcer blood effect to cyan, and updated the color tables accordingly
 · Updated Scatter Enforcer bitmaps' gun hands to match the rest of the sprite, and
   returned the gun accents to cyan
 · Marked yellow hues as self-luminescent
 · Corrected Scale Factors for Frames 63-70, preventing more weird stretching

• (15) Drone
 · Corrected MADD frames to match M1 more closely, corrected some X-Mirror errors and
   some missing Minimum Lightness values
 · Removed sequence "unused"

• (31) Cyborg
 · Added Color Table 04
 · Edited the unused Color Table 03. An odd behavior is preventing certain colors
   from displaying for Color Table 04 unless they are also present in a preceding
   table. Could be a ShapeFusion quirk, or something wrong with my editing process.
 · Updated M1 Cyborg Bitmaps to be closer to the original. The color red exists now,
   and the blood is no longer half brown
 · Added Bitmaps 50-65, and corresponding Frames 111-126
 · Edited Sequence "minion.dying", adding new Frames. Added extra Key Frame and Last
   Frame sounds
 · Added Sequence "minion.active"


Eternal Physics Changes:

ALIENS:
• Major Tick
 · Changed Ranged Attack Type from F'lickta Glob to Possessed Drone Bolt

• Green Bob
 · Raised Attack Frequency from 0 to 90
 · Changed Ranged Attack Type from None to Pistol Bullet

• Blue Bob
 · Raised Attack Frequency from 0 to 90
 · Changed Ranged Attack Type from None to Pistol Bullet

• Security Bob
 · Changed Ranged Attack Type from Fusion Bolt to Pistol Bullet
 · Changed Color Table from 5 to 2

• Assimilated Bob
 · Changed Ranged Attack Type from Shotgun Shot to Pistol Bullet
 · Behavior Flags:
    [ ] Flies
    [ ] Is Alien
 · Friends:
    [√] Marine
    [√] Bob
    [√] Marathon Drone
 · Enemies:
    [ ] Marine
    [ ] Marathon Drone
    [ ] Possessed Drone
    [ ] S'pht'Kr
    [ ] S'pht
    [ ] Cyborg
    [ ] Assimilated Bob
 · Immunities:
    [ ] Everything

• Mother of All Cyborgs
 · Changed Color Table from 0 to 4.
 · Changed Moving Sequence from 9 to 14
 · Removed all attack values from Combat Settings tab. Removed Shrapnel death.
 · Changed Ranged Impact Effect from Cyborg Hit to Pfhor Hit
 · Maximized Visual Range, Dark Visual Range, and Intelligence
 · Behavior Flags:
    [√] Cannot Attack
 · Enemies:
    [√] Marine
    [√] Bob
    [√] Marathon Drone
    [√] S'pht'Kr

• Major S'pht'Kr
 · Changed Color Table from 0 to 6. This is the "future" 'Kr table and will be the
   default throughout the scenario

• Security VacBob
 · Raised Attack Frequency from 0 to 30
 · Changed Ranged Attack Type from None to Fusion Bolt


SHOTS:
• Possessed Drone Bolt
 · Copy/Pasted old F'lickta Glob behavior.
 · Lowered Damage Base from 21 to 20 to match Marathon 1
 · Raised Damage Random from 5 to 8 to match Marathon 1
 · Changed Detonation Effect from F'lickta Glob Impact to Possessed Drone Bolt
   Detonation

• F'lickta Glob
 · Changed Collection from 3 to 31
 · Changed Color Table from 0 to 7
 · Removed Flyby Sound
 · Removed Media Detonation Effect
 · Lowered Maximum Range from 32767 to 1024
 · Modified Flags:
  [√] Melee Projectile
  [√] Penetrates Liquids

• Alien Weapon
 · Changed Ticks/Round from -1 to 3
 · Changed Recovery Ticks from 0 to 3

EFFECTS:
• Possessed Drone Bolt Impact
 · Copy/Pasted old F'lickta Glob Impact behavior.

• F'lickta Glob Impact
 · Changed Collection from 3 to 11
 · Changed Sequence from 15 to 14
 · Modified Flags:
  [ ] End When Animation Loops
  [√] Sound Only


Eternal Sounds Changes:

• F'lickta Sewage Flyby
 · Assigned Class ID: 15870
 · Added Wasp venom splat sound from Marathon 1



Also! Here's what I have of the Chapter Physics files so far. The filenames are more or less self-explanatory. Let me know if anything weird happens and I'll try and fix it quick.
Love Marathon, and also play Doom on modern source ports? You might like these skins!
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President People

Post Mar 22nd '18, 22:00

Yeah, shapefusion seems to reset a lot of values to 0 randomly while using it. It's always a fun game to see what'll be screwed up after each time you save.
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Wrkncacnter

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