Eternal X 1.2

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Aug 12th '18, 23:44

I have no objection to adding ZPMs either. Thanks for touching all that up, I’ll check it out when I’m back from the weekend!
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 13th '18, 04:10

Cool. It’s a bit late tonight and I haven’t slept too well the last several days, so I think I’ll actually try to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight, but I’ll hopefully get onto some of the other revisions I listed tomorrow or Tuesday. And no problem - I probably want this stuff to be fun to play on TC as much as anyone does.

I’ll admit I’m even partially self-interested on this account, as no one will bother vidding it if it isn’t, and that would mean fewer videos for my YouTube channel. Even if I weren’t running a YT channel of vid films, though, I’d still want to see Eternal vid films, and it’s obvious no one would’ve vidded “Deep Into the Grotto”, etc., in their original state.

Anyway, yeah. I’ll put up further revisions later this week, probably.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 13th '18, 19:42

The Man wrote:ETA: Some of the levels in chapter five don’t start you off with the grav blades. “Deep Into the Grotto”, for instance. I’m sure that’s unintentional, and I’m too tired to figure out how to fix it, but I definitely won’t be able to work on the level balance until I do so (or someone else does).

Just noticed this comment now. It can be changed by swapping out which weapon-lending MML script is called on that level by the master levels MML. I think it's currently the way it is intentionally, having you with no grav blades until Deep Into The Grotto (so you don't start with them there since you first get them there, but you start with them thereafter). Let me know what level you first get the grav blades on after your rebalancing and I'll adjust the MML myself to give them to you automatically on every level after that.
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Aug 13th '18, 21:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 13th '18, 20:40

The Man wrote:Title capitalisation etc. look screwed up again in a few levels. Changes:

11 to “To Sleep, Perchance to Dream”
26 to “Eat S’pht and Die” (or “Eat S'pht and Die” if you don’t want curly quotes; it looks like the other titles currently don’t use them either, though I’d honestly also change it so all of them did)

I actually like the look of straight apostrophes in S'pht words, and since there's only one apostrophe besides them, I've changed them all back in your latest files.

Also, I didn't overwrite any of the files that I've worked on since alpha 5 (prologue/epilogue, dream levels, and the first three levels of ch1), just in case you hadn't managed to get the current versions of everything off GitHub. I manually changed the title of To Sleep, Perchance to Dream to match your version, but can you let me know if you made any other changes to those aforementioned levels that I should check and compare?

[*]I tried running alpha 5 on my Windows box and it still doesn’t load the HD/bump mapped textures for either the human set or the Pfhor set. I don’t know why I’m having problems on both machines and meanwhile no one else seems to be having them. I’m using A1 1.2.1 (2015/06/20 build).

This is very concerning, but I can't find anything that would explain it. Can you run through the S'pht texture test maps and make sure that all of the S'pht textures are showing up for you correctly? (Particularly the magenta metals, which are last in the MML). Because I would suspect that it's a problem in the MML somewhere around the start of the Human set, since that would break everything after it which is just the Human and Pfhor sets, but I don't see anything wrong actually there at the start of the Human set so I'm wondering if there's a subtle something somewhere in the last few S'pht textures just preceding it that might be at fault.

(Not sure why it's only breaking on your machine, but I would guess some kind of invisible character or something that's being interpreted differently by our different computers).

[*]I like the idea of turning the miner’s lamp down to 0, but it would definitely require a lot of work to make sure the pitch dark areas are navigable. I’m considering changing the Chronicles miner’s lamp to 0.25 or something (I used 0% lighting so much that it’d probably take a week just to make the sections navigable with a value of 0). But if you have the patience to do that with all the Eternal levels, for sure, go for it.

I'm going to try, and if it doesn't work out, I can always turn the light up a little bit later.

[*]I encoded my “Dysmentria” film while I was at work and will upload it momentarily. Again, no HD Pfhor textures. It’s also a few weeks old build of the map, I think; it’s still using the purple fog script I’d added. I’d suggest using the script from “A Friend in Need”.

The fog is basically set so as to match the landscape textures, on every level, since they need to match or else they look bad when you see the edge of geometry against landscape. That means that most space ships have just a thin black fog that's barely noticeable, except e.g. some interior parts of the Marathon that have no landscape visible. Why do you think Dysmentria needs a thicker, or purple, fog?

[*]“Flight of Icarus”: I would consider changing the above-media fog script to the one from “Where Giants Have Fallen”, etc. The one currently in use looks like it was designed for lava levels, and looks kind of weird in distant areas with lots of water. To be fair there are some sewage areas in the level as well, but not as many of them.

Since there's no landscapes visible on this level that should be fine and I'll give it a shot.

...erm, just went to change that bit of MML and it looks like it's already set to use the blue-sky fog. I checked in game and that appears to be the case as well. I haven't changed that since at least a5, so now I'm worried that maybe you're not even looking at a5 but something older?
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Aug 13th '18, 21:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 13th '18, 20:59

Took a look at that This Message Will Self-Destruct vid, and while it generally looks good to me, I think maybe the various W'rk dreams could stand to respawn a little more frequently, since it seems like as it is now you end up wandering a lot of empty halls where you've already killed everything, but it doesn't make much sense that the W'rk would stop attacking there just because you've been there. For gameplay purposes I get that it can't be a constant sea of combat everywhere, but maybe have just like one W'rk monster of some kind of another respond pretty quickly per each general area, so it seems like they've still got a presence throughout the ship?

Also, with it no longer being a constant battle everywhere, the orbs at the start seem unnecessary (they were there to create plausible a barrier between you and the melee outside in just that one safe room at the start), and I've always found them kind of annoying to begin with, so maybe they should be removed?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 13th '18, 21:12

I'm on my phone right now so I'll respond in brief.

Gravitronic blades; huh, didn't realise they were so late in this version of the scenario. I can actually see a practical argument for giving them to the player on that level (the earlier ones are less challenging) but I'd place them at the very start of the level or at least before the player encounters any monsters. I'll test the levels before then some more and see if that seems fair.

Curly quotes: fair enough

Github versions: thought I'd grabbed a version from the... 8th or 9th or even 10th, I want to say. I didn't recall seeing any new changes since I'd last downloaded the map, but that Icarus thing has me worried now. Maybe I'm just seeing orange fog because it's what I expect to see.

Dysmentria fog: I guess the explanation for black fog in space levels makes sense, but IIRC the landscape texture only appears a couple times in the whole level, and it's rare that you can even see the landscapes from enough of a distance for the fog to look weird (actually, can you ever?). I have an aesthetic thing where I often base the fog script in space levels on the media colour. Since Chronicles' Pfhor goo is red, most of the Pfhor levels are also red. (I may have inherited this preference from some of the green scripts in Rubicon X.) Eternal's Pfhor levels are so predominantly purple that it's what I expect the fog script on those levels to be purple as well. I can see reasonable arguments either way, though. I'd probably err on the side of whether a level uses purple or space textures more often, and how often you can see fog against the landscape. Or make a purple-tinted landscape - maybe the Pfhor tint some of their windows.

I'd recommend at least replacing Third Rock from Lh'owon if you haven't already. I did a lot on that one and I really doubt it'd been changed. I don't think I made any changes to the chapter one levels or dream levels besides titles.

I'll look at the textures in Vasara tonight and see when the HD ones stop displaying. If I can locate the offending line I'll even try to fix it.

I agree that This Message gets a bit empty. I think I had monsters respawning at 20 or 25%. I'll try 33%. (If it was 33%, I'll try 50%.) I'll probably leave the juggernauts at their current rate though.

I agree that the orbs can probably be removed.

If I missed anything, I'll hopefully get to it tonight.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 13th '18, 22:23

The Man wrote:I'd recommend at least replacing Third Rock from Lh'owon if you haven't already. I did a lot on that one and I really doubt it'd been changed. I don't think I made any changes to the chapter one levels or dream levels besides titles.

I definitely did use your version of that. The only things I didn't overwrite were the dream levels, prologue/epilogue, and the first three levels of ch1. Third Rock is not in any of those categories, so your version got used.

I then manually changed the apostrophe back to straight.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 14th '18, 07:09

Tonight I put some (hopefully final) touches on Far Side, updated Near Side to match, made a few small changes to Deja Vu (mostly turned a fighter and an enforcer into compilers for variety), and somehow spent way too much fucking time dicking around on Septococcal Pfhoryngitis just to end up mostly changing some annoying platforms and a few tiny lighting adjustments here and there.

I didn't have time to get to Dysmentria as I had hoped, but I did get a chance to play through it and confirmed that it does need some lighting updates in some of the darkest tunnels. I also played through Sakhmet, which doesn't look like it needs much work from the reviews, and saw that that only needs a little bit of lighting work. I hope to get those done tomorrow.

For now changes are up on GitHub.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 14th '18, 21:01

Your hypothesis about the textures is correct, but it’s not the lava collection causing the problem; it’s the sewage collection. The offending texture seems to be the final texture with Thoth’s insignia. (I’m reasonably certain it’s the ninth from the last, or bitmap 121, but don’t quote me on that.) For the meantime, it might make sense to move each collection to its own .mml file until one of us can isolate the offending syntax error.

What strikes me as odd about this is that there are a couple of textures in Chronicles where the HD versions don’t load, but that doesn’t screw up the rest of the textures that follow. Perhaps I just screwed up the file location rather than the syntax. It’s also odd that I’m the only one who seems to have experienced this problem, and that it nonetheless occurs on both computers I use to play Marathon, which are even running different operating systems.

Sorry I didn’t get around to it sooner; I was just utterly exhausted yesterday after work, and then had stuff to do today. I may amend this with additional stuff if it comes to mind; I’ll admit that I want to get something posted as quickly as possible so I can make another post in the Chronicles thread sooner.

ETA: I think I figured out the problem. The offending line is the third one in the following code excerpt:

Code: Select all
      <texture coll="19" bitmap="121" normal_image="Eternal-Data/Shapes/Walls/Set3-Jjaro/5Magenta/28.dds"
         offset_image="Eternal-Data/Shapes/Walls/Set3-Jjaro/xBumpMaps/28.dds"
         offset_image="Eternal-Data/Shapes/Walls/Set3-Jjaro/xBumpMaps/28.dds"
         glow_image="Eternal-Data/Shapes/Walls/Set3-Jjaro/xGlowMaps/jjaro-glow.png"
         glow_mask="Eternal-Data/Shapes/Walls/Set3-Jjaro/xGlowMaps/28glow_mask.png"/>

A1 must not like the repetition. Remove that and it seems to load the last few textures of the Jjaro set without any problems. I’ll double-check to make sure the Human and Pfhor collections work now, too, but I think that was the problem.

Edit 2: That was definitely the problem, and holy shit, the new Pfhor collection is so beautiful. I’ll re-encode my “Dysmentria” film later, as well as whatever “Pfhor får lamm” films I made, but first I’ve got to write some thank-you notes for birthday presents.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 14th '18, 22:26

Awesome, thank you for tracking that down, and glad you like the new Pfhor set so much!
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 14th '18, 22:47

No problem, and you’re welcome. I was as glad to get the problem solved as anyone.

BTW, if you haven’t already changed this, there are at least a few platforms in “Dysmentria” that should probably be set to have a delay before activation now. The one at the bottom of the starting room is a big one. Alternately, you can reduce their speed a bit; I may have overreacted a bit to how slow they were originally. This is why it’s mandatory to play-test things like this.

…oh. Isn’t the player supposed to be a Mjolnir Mk. IV cyborg? The interface says “Mjolnir Mk X”. That should probably also be changed in alpha 6 or whatever, unless there’s a specific reason for it that I’m not aware of/I’ve forgotten.

Edit: Regarding the “Flight of Icarus” fog script, I think I may have been playing on an old version of the map without realising it. I’ll go play it again now and look. For the time being, here’s a new encode of “Dysmentria”. I’ll have one of “This Message Will Self-Destruct” up in a bit, too. Neither of these are new films of these levels; they’re old films that finally display the correct HD textures.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 15th '18, 02:18

Good catch on those platforms, I'll fix them tonight. Already retouched the textures on that map, and not a lot more to do on Sakhmet Rising after I'm done with Dysmentria.

The player in Eternal is a Mk. X now. There used to be a mention of his upgrade to Mk. V in the opening terminal somewhere (I think it does still say something like "rest and upgrades"), and when Eternal X came out in 2008 I changed it to X because why not.

I'll check out that new encode of Dysmentria over dinner, thanks!
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 15th '18, 03:41

Thanks, and no problem.

I haven’t tried the very latest encode of the map, but as of August 11, the over-media fog for “Flight of Icarus” still looks orange/beige to me. Under media, it’s definitely got the Forerunner/water fog script, but there’s a pretty big contrast above media with the blue in “The Land in the Sky”. I’ll encode a new video of that tonight or tomorrow; I’ve still got to get that one with “Pfhor får lamm” too.

Here’s “This Message Will Self-Destruct” with the HD textures. Again, the same gameplay I already posted above; just a much prettier version of it.

I tried “Deep Into the Grotto” and it feels simultaneously a bit empty and yet still unfair. I think it’s because of those stupid orbs. They’ve killed me twice now when they were firing at something else. It might be worth either eliminating them on this level, too, or at least reducing their firing speed. I’m not sure it’s necessary to add too many more monsters to this one, though, even though it does get a bit empty at times. Due to the level geometry and atmosphere, it’s still terrifying even though the threat from the W’rk dreams probably isn’t usually as great as it seems.

I think I’m also going to go through, add a bunch of ZPMs to any level that has fewer than, say, twenty-one, and change the grav blades to 32,767 rounds each.

There’s a door texture in “Flight of Icarus” that one of us needs to go realign in Vasara. It’s the one that I added myself to force the player to take a unique route vis à vis “My Own Private Thermopylae”. I think I’m also going to speed up the platform near that area.

Finally, I think I figured out a way to resolve the landscape texture fog debate on space levels like “Dysmentria”: just use some transparent texture over the windows to space. I think, though I haven’t tested this out, that if you add a new, completely transparent texture, the fog might even show up over that.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 15th '18, 07:22

I'll trust your judgement on the combat for the ch5 levels, and I can always tweak it further when I get to them in December. Feel free to adjust Flight of Icarus too, I won't be touching that until October.

I looked at the MML for Icarus again and you're right, I was looking at the under-media fog before. I've changed the over-media fog as well now.

In other news:

RyokoTK wrote:05. Sakhmet Rising
I actually like this one


So there wasn't much specific to fix about this level. I did run through and tweak a few little bits of lighting and geometry and moved some annoying Bobs and got rid of a stupid double-switch-platform trick that was obviously just the mapper trying to show off but I never really liked.

Crater Creator wrote:glitch: The switch controlling platform 322 doesn't light up when activated.


I couldn't figure this out. Anyone else have any ideas?


I also adjusted the lighting in a few places on Dysmentria to avoid absolute darkness, and made the platform changes suggested.

I also figured out a solution to the weird edges-of-switches-and-chargers bump map problem, but only implemented it for the Pfhor chargers and the Human switches so far, and the latter only because I also discovered a problem with the Human wires textures I needed to fix, and just fixed that while I was in there. I suspect all the other wires will need the same fix too, and I'll get to that when I get to implementing the bump map fix for everything else too.

Some tiny changes to Deja Vu and Septococcal while I was at it.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 15th '18, 09:13

Thanks.

I was going to post my own revisions tonight, plus a bunch of videos, but my internet is being stupid and I can only access the web on my phone. But a few new things I did tonight:

  • Changed the above-media fog script in "Icarus". Still need to fix that door

  • Most chapter five levels now have twenty-one zero-point modules. "I've Got a Bad Feeling About This" still needs them added, I think.

  • "This Message Will Self-Destruct": raised the respawn rate from 30% to 40%; now a ten-second delay before the goo rises.

Those were the main changes. I did notice some very strange behaviour by an Enforcer when playing "Déjà Vu", and you'll see it whenever I can upload my video of it. I think it can be fixed by changing some polygons to monster & item impassable. Hopefully.

edit: here; new revisions. Mostly to chapter 5 levels. I also fixed a couple of level titles again. You’ll also want to overwrite the scripts for “Flight of Icarus” in resources 00128.txt; if you haven’t edited it since yesterday’s revision, you should probably just overwrite it with mine.

I also discovered a really weird, game-ending glitch with “Septococcal Pfhoryngitis” which I will post a video of reasonably soon.

edit 2: old vid film of Icarus & Pfhor får lamm with the new textures

edit 3: Septococcal glitch

Flight of Icarus with blue fog

weird glitch in end room of Giants
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 15th '18, 16:47

Weird! Both of those glitches seem like you've developed quantum tunneling powers and spontaneously got relocated to just on the other side of a line you were standing next to.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 15th '18, 16:58

Yeah, it's really strange. I've known that area in Giants was a bit glitchy for weeks, but I've never had it behave that glitchily. The one in Septococcal is completely new to me. Of course, I haven't played that level as much. One quick fix would just be to put a teleporter on that polygon, but it'd be nice to fix properly. I wonder if a recent change to the level caused it.

Have I been taking the long way round in Giants for 10 years, btw? I only discovered that path Sunday night. If it's not intended, I'd still suggest leaving it - it's a cool Easter egg.

Here's Déjà Vu complete with weird enforcer behaviour: https://youtu.be/sQFddT65x0A
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 15th '18, 17:09

I'm honestly not sure what the original intended path of Giants was. I used to always take a much more circuitous route than even that, involving a bunch of much more difficult jumps, until I discovered while adjusting jumps for easy of navigation a few weeks ago that there's a much simpler, less jumpy route. I've textured that route as the "official" route now, but yeah, there are definitely multiple ways up the mountain, some harder, some easier, some quicker, some slower.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 15th '18, 17:31

Preemptively looking into Unwired's to-do list for tonight. Ryoko had no input because he skipped failure branches.

Crater Creator wrote:Unwired
It seems odd that I hear wind and loons inside the Marathon.

I'm pretty sure the loons are just in the music, and wind-ish sounds blowing through what are basically underground tunnels or caverns in a hollowed-out moon doesn't seem weird to me. But I'll look into it anyway.

The area around polygon 138, once you get the platforms running, is actually enough to drop my framerate from 30 to 20. Now's as good a time as any to say I'm playing on a 2.16 GHz MacBook Pro. 20 frames per second is playable for me, but on lower hardware that could get down to unplayable rates. I'll have to experiment with mipmap settings to see if that helps.

Anyone have any suggestions about this?

Shouldn't the gray mothers-of-all-hunters always explode, like in the original games?

This might have already been changed back as suggested, but if it hasn't, should it be?

I would've liked to see an animation for the Hunter punching you. C'mon, they've got these big sharp stabby arms; put them to good use [MSmile]

Don't they have one? This is like the Enforcer punch animation thing. I'm pretty sure their melee attack just uses their attack animation, which makes it look like they're basically bludgeoning you with their weapon.

A small typo: "There no way to even try to access it." should be "There is" or "There's"

Fixed now. (Surprised it wasn't fixed way back then already).

I'll check lighting and annoying platforms and stuff on this level tonight, and hopefully it will be quick and I can spend my time fixing some of those texture bugs I figured out last night.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 15th '18, 17:55

I think it's fine that the Mothers of All Hunters don't always explode - as with Troopers' weapons when they're killed by explosions, I'd refer you to "You Think You're Big Time?", where the grey Mothers of All Hunters only explode if you kill them with grenades, rockets, or fusion blasts. It'd probably be fine to change it if it bothers others, but doing so would make the game harder, particularly later in chapter five where you're probably just going to be mowing them down with the gravitronic blades. It would also put a serious obstacle in the way of fists-only runs, though I have no idea how many Eternal levels would even be doable without weapons. (I got "Déjà Vu" last night without any trouble, obviously, but it's not surprising that the first real level can be vidded fists-only.)

One of the music tracks definitely has loons. I don't recall which - maybe the "Flippant" remix? Is it the one used in "This Message Will Self-Destruct"? I want to say it's that one.

I like that there are multiple paths in "Giants". I feel like I'm still discovering new things in that level even though I must've played its various configurations at least 50 times by now.

Regarding the frame rate thing, remind me to look in Vasara after work.

I should've already gotten most of the annoying platforms in the first three chapters, but it's good to double-check anyway - it's entirely possible there will be others like the ones in "Dysmentria" that don't behave as intended. My intention going through was that there wouldn't be any platforms that took more than eight seconds for a complete cycle (i.e., floor to ceiling back to floor), but I might've missed some, and I probably failed to test some properly.

... can you hurt the W'rkncacnter dreams with fists? If not, should you be able to? Part of me feels that all enemies should at least be theoretically possible to defeat with fists so as to facilitate fists-only runs, but I can see a story argument against it. I think you're not supposed to be able to hurt them in the third failure dream, but it'd still be pretty terrifying if you could only hurt them with your fists, since if you're that close to them, they'll still do a ton of damage to you even if you're damaging them too. You'd still basically have to run from them, I suspect. I haven't tested this but I don't see it being much less challenging if you could only punch them than it is not being able to hurt them at all.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 15th '18, 21:43

Annoying platform things I'm looking for aren't so much just platforms being slow, but places where you needlessly need to wait for a platform to go back up or down before you can get onto it. I got rid of a needless trio of platforms blocking the way on Septococcal, and I changed the geometry around a platform on Deja Vu so that you can just jump over it on your way down and don't have to jump into its shaft and ride it up before riding it down, and I added a delay to another platform on Septococcal for the same reason (so you can fall down and out of its shaft before it starts going up).

The only W'rk monster that should be invulnerable to all but Jjaro weapons are the Banshees, to mirror how in PiD they are only vulnerable to the Blue Crystal. Mothrids and Nightmares should be normally vulnerable to all other weapons.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 15th '18, 23:37

Ah, yeah, I hadn’t checked all of those. I know there are definitely some in “Roots and Radicals” and “Heart of Fusion”. It might be worth controlling some of them with switches, because I think there are some pretty long shafts in several cases.

That kinda makes sense regarding the Banshees, though it definitely makes fists-only less feasible in levels that have them.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 16th '18, 08:05

ugh, I didn't get any work on Unwired done tonight because I decided to fix the switch/charger/terminal texture bump maps "real quick" but those fucking switch textures take so goddamn long to do anything with even on my upgraded computer that all i got done tonight was those.

i did play through Unwired though and was pleased that aside from a few points of total darkness and an annoying platform or three, it actually seems really well lit and everything. So hopefully I can just whack that out of the way before tackling Roots and Radicals tomorrow, which definitely needs more work than Unwired.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 16th '18, 10:52

That sucks that the textures took so long, but on the plus side, I guess they’re done now?

Anyway, “Septococcal Pfhoryngitis” fists-only vid film that’ll be done uploading & processing in twenty minutes, hopefully. (I’d wait to post it until it was done, but I kind of doubt anyone else is reading this thread at 7:20 AM EDT.) Not sure whether I’ll do “Dysmentria” next or just skip ahead to “Sakhmet Rising”, since I’ve already done “Dysmentria”; it just wasn’t fists only.

I didn’t actually realise there’s a second uplink chip in “Septococcal Pfhoryngitis” until looking in Weland. Is there a purpose for it? Is it a secret intended to save players time in later levels? Or is it an accident?
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 16th '18, 11:59

Pfhorrest wrote:
The area around polygon 138, once you get the platforms running, is actually enough to drop my framerate from 30 to 20. Now's as good a time as any to say I'm playing on a 2.16 GHz MacBook Pro. 20 frames per second is playable for me, but on lower hardware that could get down to unplayable rates. I'll have to experiment with mipmap settings to see if that helps.

Anyone have any suggestions about this?

Add more negative space. Too many polygons in view at once can slow down the engine, especially with Bloom on.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

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