Eternal X 1.2

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Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Oct 8th '18, 18:49

My Dell, which I'd estimate is from 2006 and has 8 GB of RAM, can't run it, even if I scale down the textures. Chronicles is starting to push it, for that matter. It's possible one of the recent windows updates screwed the latter up, but it's been having trouble with Eternal for awhile.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 8th '18, 22:01

Just skimmed through that discussion about it on the discord and yeah it sounds like there's some kind of Windows Aleph One problem. Since I have half the RAM that you do and it works fine (I mean, bloom slows it way down, but nothing's out of memory) on my Mac.

Eternal textures are all MIP-mapped DDS and so should all have lower-res versions inside of them that can be loaded if you select lower image resolution in AO prefs.

(And only a handful of them are 2048, those being terminals, switches, chargers, etc; things you might likely have your nose pressed into, where you might actually see the difference).

Is there any way to like... auto-generate a much-higher-res version of the standard Infinity high-res textures, and see if people having trouble with out-of-memory errors in Eternal have trouble with that too?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 8th '18, 23:21

Not sure. I still don’t know that much about how DDS files work or how A1 reads them. Probably worth asking about it in the Discord; I’m sure some people in there know more.

…Though come to think of it, it’s possible that it wouldn’t matter as much with the Infinity textures, since IIRC, there’s only 30 of them per set (or 35 for the Jjaro set). Eternal only has about 32 bump maps and 10-15 glow maps per set, I’d guess, but there’s a lot more of the actual textures – IIRC, 129, right? Plus most of the Infinity textures don’t have glow maps.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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Post Oct 10th '18, 02:08

Regarding the early chapter three levels, Dr Sumner writes:

Played S’pht’ia yesterday. It’s an okay level. Challenging in places, but not going to be my favorite overall. The only issue I had was watching some of the Defenders trying to shoot through some of the walls in an attempt to hit other enemies. More humorous than anything else.

Played Let Sleeping Gods Die today. That’s a fun level. Pretty intense. You have to plan how you approach the level very carefully. I had no issues with it.

Started playing She is the Dark One. It’s also a very intense level. Not sure how far along I am since it is so spread out. Played all three so far with Fists only.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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Post Oct 10th '18, 06:06

Tonight I did the things Aaron suggested in his review of Pfhor Far Lamm. Neither Ryoko nor Crater Creator had much to say about it. I also added some differential shading. It's all up on Git now.

I've been super overwhelmed all weekend and am only vaguely aware of what's been going on here since beta 3. I'll try to catch up on anything you guys have done while I've been away and integrate them when I have time, but feel free to remind me; or better still, if Lia could integrate them into a PR for me so I can just push a button, that'd be nice.

Thanks again everyone.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 10th '18, 06:43

No problem. The main thing I can think of is that version of “She Is the Dark One” I uploaded about a week ago. Can’t think of anything else offhand.

Hope you’re well, and that things get less overwhelming.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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Post Oct 10th '18, 23:41

Looking over the reviews of The Incredible Hulk in preparation for touching it up tonight, it looks like the only suggestions anyone has is to make the external geometry and lighting a little more interesting. I could do a once-over on the lighting tonight, but Aaron's review was saying he might remodel a bunch of the geometry there, which would make my relighting redundant since that will all get torn out.

So Aaron, I thought I would check in with you about that before I spend time tonight on that.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 11th '18, 03:26

Yeah, I might take a look at that next week. I don’t expect to have time to deal with it until Monday, but we’ll see how things shake out. Feel free to re-light the rest of the level except the two outside sections, though; I definitely won’t have time to deal with that yet.

I might also want to redo some external geometry in “Babylon X”, but again, same deal. TBH I haven’t had much time to do much in most of chapter four yet except “Pfhor får lamm”; I haven’t even finished platform sounds and such.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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Post Oct 11th '18, 05:31

Thanks! I did that tonight (minor lighting indoors on The Incredible Hulk), and will do the same to Babylon X tomorrow, then that's it for me this week.

Tonight I also merged in your updated She Is The Dark One and reimplemented my own tiny changes to that level, and I also grabbed that modified shapes Lia sent me and merged that into my own folder.

Lia, I'd love to have you make the low-res versions of all of the textures sets when we near the end of beta 5, but for now I actually have those template textures in there on purpose, to aid in lighting and alignment.

Also, I'm curious to hear more about this infravision-on-demand thing. If it's not too clunky, I think it'd be really cool if Eternal implemented things like that by default. Maybe invisibility too, even invincibility? (I doubt anybody wants extravision). All of them powered by shields, so you can't use any of them for too long?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 11th '18, 07:47

I don't understand how the weird stand-ins are helpful at all, but if they work for you, I guess you use yours until you want to use mine, and I'll just use mine :-)

This should be the relevant section of the solo script I play with:
Code: Select all
Triggers = {}

night = 900
firsthealth = 50
camoflauge = 0

function Triggers.start_refuel()
  firsthealth = Players[0].life
  camoflauge = camoflauge + Players[0].invisibility_duration
  night = night + Players[0].infravision_duration
  Players[0].infravision_duration = 0
  Players[0].extravision_duration = 180
end
function Triggers.end_refuel()
  Players[0].extravision_duration = 0
  camoflauge = camoflauge + ( Players[0].life - firsthealth ) / 2
  night = night + Players[0].life - firsthealth
end
function Triggers.terminal_enter()
  Players[0].extravision_duration = 3000
end
function Triggers.terminal_exit()
  Players[0].extravision_duration = 0
end
function Triggers.idle()
   for p in Players() do
      if p.action_flags.action_trigger then
   if not p:find_action_key_target() then
     if Players[0].infravision_duration > 0 or Players[0].invisibility_duration >0
     then
       night = night + Players[0].infravision_duration
            camoflauge = camoflauge + Players[0].invisibility_duration
       Players[0].infravision_duration = 0
       Players[0].invisibility_duration = 0
     else
       Players[0].infravision_duration = night
       Players[0].invisibility_duration = camoflauge
       night = 0
       camoflauge = 0
   end
      end
   end
end
end


This:

-toggles infravision and invisibility when the action key is pressed where there is nothing to interact with
-recharges infravision and invisibility when using a recharge terminal.
-turns on extravision when starting a terminal or recharge station and turns it off when exiting

You start with 0 invisibility and 30 seconds of infravision. For every life point you recharge at a terminal, you gain 1/30th of a second of infravision and 1/60th of a second of invisibility.

I'm certain it does NOT work in multiplayer, so if any of us want to use it in a scenario, someone who actually knows what they are doing will have to modify it to work so.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 11th '18, 23:02

What if the o2 guage was repurposed as a generalized life-support/power supply? Infra/Invis toggles would cost greater amounts of energy, and automatically deactivate at a certain threshold to prevent suffocation. It would also slowly recharge on its own outside liquids and vacuum, assuming that script remained.

Also, I recall at least one level containing an invisibility powerup. Would it interfere with your script at all (or vice-versa)?


EDIT:
Pfhorrest wrote:The loading screen seems to have lost it's progress bar for me. I mean, the bar is still there, but it never fills up, the level just is loaded suddenly. Is anyone else having that problem on the latest alpha? (It's been happening for me for a while and I keep forgetting to look into it). Any ideas what might be happening?

I meant to reply to this a long time ago, but I must've forgotten. This seems to be fixed in Aleph One 1.2b2. In windowed mode, it jumps around a bit before recentering, but otherwise the bar appears once again.

While testing that, I discovered a few texture errors. Sorry about the size, my connection's taking a dive just now:

Level 00 - The first elevator down from the starting area, to the left
Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 8.32.59 PM.png


Level 00 - Along the back wall behind the large green cylinder
Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 8.33.44 PM.png


Level 01 - All switches appear as glitchy x1 rechargers
Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 8.36.18 PM.png


I'll let you know if I come across anything else.
Last edited by President People on Oct 12th '18, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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President People

Post Oct 12th '18, 00:29

That's a neat idea, too.

Powerups act kind of like health cans. As normal, you can only pick them up if your IR or invisibility is not active or about to expire. If you pick up an invisibility powerup while not invisible, but you have saved up invisibility in the camoflage variable, then if you tab off the invisibility, your current invisibility time remaining will be added to your saved invisibility. If you run out of powerup invisibility while you have saved invisibility, you will become visible and will have to tab to re-enable your invisibility. Same goes for IR.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 12th '18, 02:22

Bugs in top and bottom screenshots are fixed already. I’m not seeing what’s wrong in the middle one.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 12th '18, 02:32

The thin texture in the center of the screen is very bright, which seemed out of place to me. I figured it might have been overlooked, but I could be wrong. The directional lighting in that general area does seem to point in the same direction, but that one spot sticks out in the dark corner it's located in.
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President People

Post Oct 12th '18, 05:45

Oh yeah, there's a bunch of little things I apparently missed in that corner. Just fixed them all.

Also touched up Babylon X. Per Aaron's review, fixed up the platform speeds and sounds, and all of the ambient sounds. Looks like I had already addressed Ryoko's main complaint, about monster behaviors. And I ran through and touched up lighting in places that aren't going to be remodeled by Aaron later.

Ryoko had asked for the teleporter to light up when it's active. I don't see an obvious way to do that, since it activates only after the level is complete, once a whole bunch of switches and wires have been smashed. However, I do note that the teleporter has a whole bunch of different custom lights on different parts of it. I wonder if Don had some light-up-when-active mechanism that got broken at some point, and if so, how that worked? Anyone better than me care to look and see what's going on there?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 14th '18, 04:59

Say, may I re-use the level where you sandbox Durandal on the Marathon's bridge? I'd like to use it for M1R's epilogue.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 15th '18, 02:46

Go right ahead! :)
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 15th '18, 04:06

Thank you!
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 16th '18, 04:51

tonight i touched up dread not

reviews seem to agree that this is probably the best level in the scenario so there wasn't a lot to do

crater creator didn't have any actionable suggestions

per aaron's suggestions i sped up some platforms, and sunk some space-floors to avoid mysteriously hovering drone corpses. i didn't do it right, the way he suggested, because i'm dead and lazy and i guess this way is still good enough.

ryoko wished there was a pattern buffer in the south, so i added one

and ryoko thought the lighting was great, so i didn't bother touching it up, and just ran through and realigned some switches and stuff instead

all up on github now
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 17th '18, 05:10

tonight i touched up bug-eyed in space

i remember really hating this and its twin in the success branch, but apparently reviewers kinda liked them, except for the murderous opening

i turned two enemies into friendly hulks and two other enemies into weaker enemies and set everything to be activated by nearest hostile so hopefully that intro is less "welcome to your own personal firing squad" and more teleporting into the middle of a battle as was intended, now

Crater Creator had also asked for a recharger elsewhere, so I added two, and also some pattern buffers just for symmetry even if they're not really needed

sped up some platforms, added some sound objects for nicer auditory transitions, aligned a bunch of switches and stuff, and made slight improvements to the differential shading, though this level at least sometimes makes an effort at that so i didn't bother going through nitpicking it to death because i'm already dead this week and ain't nobody got meh for that

everything's on git
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 18th '18, 06:01

tonight i updated run coward

i don't understand how that level was ever beatable in 1.0. I guess in 1.1 the orb physics were broken in a way that made them mostly harmless on this level? but I finally fixed that tonight and holy shit it's murder. they were set to fire thirty bursts of seven fusion bolts per second non-stop. i couldn't even scrape through on kindergarten.

in addition to fixing the drones (and toning them down a lot, to "only" two shots per second), I added a bunch of cannon fodder to particularly hard parts of the map, to distract the drones from you for a bit, and a bunch of zone borders and triggers and things to make sure they're not just all dead before you get there.

I also touched up the lighting and some texture alignment throughout.

it's all up on git.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 18th '18, 06:15

Sounds like you're on a roll! I might try and rile up the currently oblivious and inactive S'pht in the tower of S'pht'ia this weekend (posting to remind myself...)
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 18th '18, 16:19

Thanks :)

Next week I plan to touch up Once More Unto The Breach and Genie In A Bottle, and then package and release beta 4 by Thursday night.

So if you or Aaron (or anyone else) have anything else you want in before beta 4, that's when it's happening.

I seem to recall there were some things that didn't quite make it into beta 3 that I think I still haven't got finished versions of? All I can remember is Aaron was doing something to the Corporation levels in ch2. I know Aaron's having some hard times right now but if he can let me know where things stand on anything like that I'd appreciate it.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 18th '18, 16:47

It’s been awhile since I’ve had the focus to work on much at all. I haven’t really even gotten too much done on Chronicles the past few days – just small updates. I’ll try to get everything ready by beta 5.

ETA: Mostly right now the main stuff I want to work on is “Burning Down the Corporation”, the outdoor sections in those two chapter 4 levels, and then minor stuff throughout the rest of chapter 4 that I haven’t really gotten the chance to look at properly, plus final chapter 5 gameplay rebalancing (I think I made it slightly too easy, but I want to make sure I don’t go the opposite direction and make it too hard again) and double-checking the rest of the game and making sure none of the further gameplay changes have resulted in unbalanced gameplay. So… when I type it out like that, it sounds like a lot. I expect I might not have time to work on some of it until December, but hopefully I can get at least some of it done by beta 5.

It doesn’t help that I’ve come down with a cold, too, so that isn’t helping either.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 19th '18, 21:46

Regarding the rest of chapter 3 from Dr Sumner:

1. Enjoyed playing She Is the Dark One. Quite the challenging level. Had no issues with it.

2. Given my style of playing (Fists only), for me S’pht Happens has the hardest opening up to this point in Eternal. Thank goodness there is a PB early. It’s a tough slog to that first recharger. Once you get established there, the level is fun and challenging to play. It would be nice if the first recharger were a bit closer. But I know I have to balance that desire with the fact that most people are not going to bother playing with Fists only. Still, a bit closer would be nice.

3. Eat S’pht and Die is another level I really enjoy playing. I don’t recall any issues with it.

4. Second to Last of the Mohicans is another fun level to play. The only issue I have with it is the tediousness of having to constantly backtrack through who knows how many doors, stairs, etc… to find the nearest recharger or PB. Curious question I have for whoever can answer it. Why do none of the MOAHs have a hard death? I am not complaining. Just wondering.

5. What can I say about The Manipulated Dead? You have to understand. I was scarred by my inability to get through the original 1.1 version of Deep Into the Grotto. Ever since, I get an instant dread when I see one of these black floating enemies (whatever they are called). If the intention was to portray the player having a nightmare, then you definitely succeeded. I will probably never like playing these levels. Imagine the dread I have right now knowing that I have Chapter 5 coming up soon. Having said all that, I did manage to get through this level with Fists only. All I can say is thank goodness I don’t have to play a level after this one.

6. As for Third Rock from Lh’owon, I just do not like playing this level. And the reason why is “I absolutely hate regenerating enemies”. And in this case it is Troopers. To make matters worse, they regenerate at a high rate, AND they seem to regenerate everywhere! I even had one regenerate right behind me while I was trying to read the exit terminal. (Sigh) Now, does that mean I think things should be changed. Maybe. It would be nice if the regeneration rate were a bit lower. Other than that, I have one suggestion and one absolutely "critical request". The suggestion is to put a 2x recharger in the final room. It’s not necessarily an easy haul to get to that final room without taking some damage from Trooper fire along the way. And if a Trooper happens to regenerate in the final room, then you might have to enter the next level with lower than desired shields. The next level has a tough opening as you immediately face two Troopers. As for the "critical request”, there is something BAD going on as you cross over line 446 (from SE to NW) on your way up the stairs in the central courtyard. I don’t know how many times I have crossed over that line in an attempt to avoid the many Troopers only to be instantly teleported to a nearby polygon. (Not sure where, but it is somewhere close). Since that typically disorients the player, it usually means death since you will have 125 Trooper grenades coming at you at the same time. So that problem needs to be fixed. I remember encountering it in Eternal 1.1.

7. Flight of Icarus is another level I really enjoy playing. Had no issues with it. Though I do recall one comical occurrence. I had the Hulk on the opening walkway actually jump into the water toward the west. This is while I was away from that area. I doubt that is behavior you want.

I didn’t play The Land in the Sky since it is like the other versions. Even after all of the above harping, I was able to complete Chapter 3 using only Fists. So I suppose I shouldn't complain too much.


I'll see what I can do about that line in Third Rock this weekend, maybe. It's definitely a big problem. More to say - will do so after work

ETA: It is after work and I am figuratively dead so I will comment tomorrow instead
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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