M1A1 Weapons in hand

[Volo]

Dear Sirs,

I've recently discovered Marathon, and frankly - I loved it. Also I really appreciated all the effort your community has put into improving the classic - textures, HUDs, remixed soundtracks are perfect. I am scared to play the game as ever! (in a good sense)

Though I've lurked around the net, I have not found any decent weapons replacement for M1A1 (the quality of sprites in m1redux-wep by by tim4i is a bit lame, sorry, tim4i - no offence).

Therefore I am thinking of my own little project of replacing the sprites in <texture coll="1"> to hand-drawn vectorish art. I've done the simplest gun - the automatic rifle. One sprite for idle and three for shooting (see screens bellow). Do you like it?

I have some questions though:
1. Is the project relevant? If there is a nice guns pack for M1A1 in the making - I'm quit.
2. If my project is indeed relevant - I have to ask - do I have to chase realism by adding unnecessary details to the weapons (like highlights, scratches and dust)? Or I may keep the nice cartoonish feel of the graphics? I like hand-drawn style
3. what is the best increase of resolution for the sprites? Currently is 400%.

You feedback would be highly appropriated.

Regards,
Volo

P.S. Ah! The screen-shots:
[attachment=5185:DefendTHIS_0002.jpg]
[attachment=5186:DefendTHIS_0003.jpg]
[attachment=5187:DefendTHIS_0004.jpg]

[Switch]

Welcome to the Pfhorums

[treellama]

That AR looks pretty good! Lots of people here prefer 3D renderings but I think hand-drawn can look fine.

I'm not aware of any enhancement projects for the original Marathon weapons.

400% of the original resolution is enough for a 30" monitor, so I think you're fine there.

[Volo]

Welcome to the Pfhorums

Thank you very much! Cosy place you've got here...

I'll show my pistol by the end of the week. the hand is finished, though it grasps nothing at the moment. It is hard to distinguish gun's details in pixelated sprites of 1994.

[Dodopod]

Therefore I am thinking of my own little project of replacing the sprites in <texture coll="1"> to hand-drawn vectorish art. I've done the simplest gun - the automatic rifle. One sprite for idle and three for shooting (see screens bellow). Do you like it?

Yay! Finally someone is remaking the M1 weapons.

2. If my project is indeed relevant - I have to ask - do I have to chase realism by adding unnecessary details to the weapons (like highlights, scratches and dust)? Or I may keep the nice cartoonish feel of the graphics? I like hand-drawn style

Scratches and the like may add a bit to the ambiance of the game since all the weapons are supposedly 300 or so years old, but honestly I'm a bit tired of the grungy look that every single texture seemingly needs to have these days, so I'm fine with the current style. Besides, none of Visciom's weapons have terribly much wear, so consistency is on your side.

I'll show my pistol by the end of the week. the hand is finished, though it grasps nothing at the moment. It is hard to distinguish gun's details in pixelated sprites of 1994.

That may also be because all of the details on the pistol are stupid. Seriously:

• It's clearly an automatic from the reload animation, but it still has a revolver-style cylinder.
• The hammer on the back is clearly just for decoration, since it doesn't move when the gun fires.
• The wooden(?) grip is screwed in on both sides in spite of the magazine.
• There is what looks like a horizontal fore-grip for seemingly no reason whatsoever.
• There is no rear sight but instead a scope which I'm pretty sure can't be detached.
• The front sight completely blocks the view through the scope.
• There is no visible magazine release, which I assume is the in-universe explanation for the lack of a reload key. I guess the magazine just spits itself out when there aren't any rounds left.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about firearms and some or all of this could make sense.

Also, are you going to do fists as well, because we're in desperate need of new fist sprites in all the games.

[Ares Ex Machina]

2. If my project is indeed relevant - I have to ask - do I have to chase realism by adding unnecessary details to the weapons (like highlights, scratches and dust)? Or I may keep the nice cartoonish feel of the graphics? I like hand-drawn style

I say do whichever style you think you'll have the most success pulling off because either one of those could work. Enhancement graphics with a hand-drawn look will fit in with the original graphics, providing you can pull off a simliar style. And if you take the realistic route and do a good job, it will most likely fit in with other people's graphics enhancements.

And if by any chance you're feeling ambitious enough to recreate all of the graphics (don't worry, I'm not expecting this), then you could choose pretty much any style you want:

[attachment=5205:Southpark_Marine.png]

[ukimalefu]

[attachment=5205:Southpark_Marine.png]

South Park Marathon! LOL

[Volo]

Hello!

Pardon for disappearing... it happens.

I've done the pistol (only one sprite yet). I'm trying to be as faithful to the original as possible. Sprite looks rather nice in-game (I am proud of slightly transparent gunsight - it gives nice feeling), but I can't say I am 100% pleased with the picture.

I kindly ask for several advices:
1. The gun looks silly. And due to Dodopod's comments I may assume it is meant that way. Maybe you can advice changing it's shape to find a compromise between nice looks and original design, can't you?
2. Glove wrinkles may look weird. Maybe they are to be redone?
3. While trying to be completely faithful to the original sprite, I've made black outlines for the forehand armour. Can't say it looks very nice. Do I need to stick to the original, or repaint the black lines to darkish green? Should look nicer.
4. Reloading OK. I am leaving the goofy handguard. But it makes me laugh hysterically, seeing the clip being stuck into the revolver. Maybe it should be redone completely. My options:
...a) Leave it as it is - a good laugh makes life longer
...b) Make the character to change the whole barrel of the revolver.
...c) Make use of one of these:
[attachment=5217:revolver_reloading.jpg]
(the issue is that the image has to be within the boundaries of the original sprite, and using speedloader holding the gun upwards also doesn't work in real life).

I'm thinking of doing the hand while collecting your comments of the pistol. The hand should be easy - metal knuckles work the same everywhere, despite some implanted wires in case of Marathon's protagonist.

Upon finishing the three first weapons (i.e. fist, pistol and rifle), the testing Alpha version shall be available for you to play with. You comments shall be used for final polishing.

My regards,
Volo

The screenshots:

Redrawn pistol:
[attachment=5216:Arrival_0005.jpg]

Original pistol (for reference):
[attachment=5218:Arrival_0001.jpg]

[tehWastedJamacan]

I really like how that looks.

[Dugit]

Really liking the look of this. Especially the AR.

[Hopper]

the issue is that the image has to be within the boundaries of the original sprite

In the 1.0 beta release, you can change the sprite boundaries however you like; Ares Ex Machina has released a weapons-in-hand plugin demonstrating this feature. See this post for a summary of the MML options.

[Weisscanker]

The pistol looks exactly like the glut of retro-cell-shaded games from around 2000 tried to look, but failed. It really does work for M1A1.

[Furray]

Keep up the good work!

Can you also please improve the fists? No one has succesfully done it in the past.

[zero]

(thank you for using my M1A1 FloatingX )
I would say that if you want a good reference to the pistol with a little bit of detail, I made my own Infinity/Durandal style version for Legend (and no, it's not dead yet) and I wouldn't mind if you took some of the details from it, although it's not 100% dead on to the original sprite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sezrjmpFXTs - Legend early alpha version footage.
As far as the cylinder goes, leave it. I doubt it's actually a cylinder, you have to remember that the 45 MMC was a vacuum-enabled firearm, so I think that that under-barrel cylinder and the cylinder-looking object on the sides are likely some sort of O2 device to allow the magnum's percussion cap to explode. I don't know the exact details, but I would assume that it's a magazine-fed handgun.
The hammer not moving can be blamed on the texture size/quality, the screws are likely just very short, the sights on the front don't TOTALLY obscure the scope, they aren't actually high enough to interfere with it. I think the scope was mounted on the pistol via a nonstandard mounting system, and it would be neat if it had an auto-eject system. Also, I recommend a bit of alpha transparency on the scope.
In other words, keep it vanilla...
As far as the scratches/etc, I would gladly make my own custom "weathered weapons" pack for you, like I made that FloatingX HUD for M1.
It seems sensible, as those are old, well-used weapons. Plus I am a sucker for weathered weapon sprites.

But thank you very much for this!
Also, Furray, I tried to fix the fists, but I got a negative reaction. I actually made the entire punching animation and all. I didn't think it looked all that bad, but my opinion on it is irrelevant.

[Volo]

Dear ladies and gentlemen,

The project is not dead! Just sleeping... I've bought a puppy... and burned my old laptop, the one I used to play Marathon.

Thank you, DADDY Z3RO (nice HUD, really - saves a lot of space). AND your comments regarding the pistol are really appreciated. So it seems vanilla it shall be.

Hopper, thank you for the link. The scripts need some tweaking with the working game. There may be some ideas to utilise the full potential of alpha-transparent sprites. Have to fix my laptop though

Meanwhile I've found some time to do the fist sprite of the fist. A lot of effort is put into it, and (somehow) even I am quite pleased with the result. Looks like it has been in the game all the time. Punching animation to be done in the nearest future.

[attachment=5265:Fist.jpg]

[ukimalefu]

OMG! that's amazing!

So, could you make it a bit more... "leathery" . I always though those were brown leather gloves.

[Crater Creator]

I'm almost certain there were no 3D rendered sprites in M1. While that was at least partly out of necessity at the time, I think you've shown beyond a doubt that hand-drawn sprites still work today.

I think this style's well suited for M1 replacement sprites. In particular, I like that you've matched the brightness of the original, which not all artists have done with their high-res replacements.

[President People]

When you get around to doing the SPNKR, you'll be doing the rocket sprites themselves as well, right? Though they couldn't be used in M1A1, compatibility for original M1 files should be coming at some point.

These are looking great by the way.


Aforementioned rocket sprites:

[listener]

PUPPY!!!!!

[zero]

WOW. The fist looks great! I really like how it looks like the in game sprite in HD, no earth-shattering changes.
Like I said, I wanna make a "weathered" version of the pack, and I think that the fist will look really good with scratches and a leather texture.
I'm very eager to see all of the weapons in motion...

[AdmiralGFM]

Keep up the good work!

[Tek]

Wow, those look fantastic - it's amazing how the old sprites look like scaled-down versions of yours =) Please don't give up on this... looking forward to playing with the complete pack =) Keep up the good work!

[zero]

Seriously, we need an update here.

[tim4i]

Wow dude - those look fantastic.

When I did my M1-M2-M3 redux MOD i just used the original sprites - enlarged them and cleaned them up.
-although my knowledge of graphics design and modelling is severely limited as I'm a Civil Engineer by trade.

Can't wait for release. I don't mind the new 3D sprites - brings the rest of Marathon up to date.

Keep up the good work bro.

[zero]

It's a crying shame that this project seems SUPERDEAD.
I loved the idea of getting an actual M1A1 graphical upgrade for weapons in hand.
If anyone wants it, I can try my hand at creating my own Hires weapon in hand sprites.