Kill Them All, Volume IV

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Jul 18th '12, 00:11

New introduction reminds me of Quake. <3
Dracheseele

Post Jul 18th '12, 22:04

Will there be a KTA V? If so, I'm happy to start making maps for it. If not, then shame on you. ;)

Cheers,
Perseus
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 19th '12, 00:48

PerseusSpartacus wrote:Will there be a KTA V? If so, I'm happy to start making maps for it. If not, then shame on you. ;)

Cheers,
Perseus


Make maps anyway. Just make stuff and publish them, cause, hey. Nobody else is.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 19th '12, 03:04

RyokoTK wrote:Make maps anyway. Just make stuff and publish them, cause, hey. Nobody else is.

Okay, I will. I'll make my own pack of KTA maps sometime soon. Already started the first map. If you ever start making KTA V, I'll give the whole pack to you to use.

Cheers,
Perseus
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 19th '12, 03:27

No, I meant, make real maps. KTA is a retarded waste of time.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 19th '12, 16:55

RyokoTK wrote:No, I meant, make real maps. KTA is a retarded waste of time.

Hey, is that a self-directed insult? ;)

I actually really like KTA. The maps that come out of it are skilled and really teach me a lot about making a good map. Making a KTA-style map forces me to learn how best to place enemies, how to set up ambushes, how to get ammo to teleport in nicely, etc. It is very useful seeing all that and then having to make similar kinds of stuff. Beyond that, it's great fun fighting through swarms of enemies with only an AR, even if I only have it set to Kindergarten. IMO, you should keep it up!

Cheers,
Perseus
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 19th '12, 19:50

Perseus does have a point about learning from KTA. I learned from making a map for it, but TK also has a point too. You should make real stuff, not just KTA stuff. People need to make more solo scenarios, not just these small maps that only take about five minutes to get through.
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Destiny
TEXAS

Post Jul 19th '12, 22:47

PerseusSpartacus wrote:Hey, is that a self-directed insult? ;)

I actually really like KTA. The maps that come out of it are skilled and really teach me a lot about making a good map. Making a KTA-style map forces me to learn how best to place enemies, how to set up ambushes, how to get ammo to teleport in nicely, etc. It is very useful seeing all that and then having to make similar kinds of stuff. Beyond that, it's great fun fighting through swarms of enemies with only an AR, even if I only have it set to Kindergarten. IMO, you should keep it up!

Cheers,
Perseus


KTA teaches you how to make simple maps without thoughtful content, and they teach you how to stage repetitive arena-style battles. A lot of the battles are constructed in such a way that they'd be hideously irritating and unfair when not in the context of KTA itself. Real levels are more about long-term design, and how you can stage multiple areas that mesh nicely with each other, which is usually impossible to do convincingly within the 100-polygon limitation of the KTA ruleset.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 20th '12, 02:08

Destiny wrote:You should make real stuff, not just KTA stuff.

Already under way. Check out my Ex Pluribus post. Also make sure to check out the update later in the thread. It gives some good info as to the current state of things. Progress is going surprisingly fast, I must say. I was expecting something a little tougher, but this feels almost easy (although I'll wait till I'm adding brand new shapes and enemies before I go about making my final judgement on that).

Anyways, I hope that RyokoTK initiates KTA V sooner or later so we can all revel in the glory of another carnage-filled map pack.

Cheers,
Perseus
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 20th '12, 03:29

I'm pretty sure people would be looking for a more responsible and timely project coordinator. And yet, every time I have some knuckleheaded idea, people keep contributing like "maybe this is the time it'll actually come together!"

By the way, thanks for starting off your first-ever Marathon project with something so stupidly ambitious and oversized that there's absolutely no chance of it seeing completion. Why don't people just make three-level Infinity scenarios like the good old days of 1997? They'd still be really good and fun. And, you know, it might get finished.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 20th '12, 04:46

RyokoTK wrote:By the way, thanks for starting off your first-ever Marathon project with something so stupidly ambitious and oversized that there's absolutely no chance of it seeing completion.

Shame on you, sah, for desecrating a project you've hardly seen any real info about! ;)

Actually, I wouldn't call it overly ambitious or even oversized. I expect nothing much to come out of it. I plan to make it as good as it can get, but 'as good as it can get' may not be very good. At best, it would be something on a par with your Marathon: Phoenix or Dugit's Marathon: Aeon project. If it is as good as Rubicon or even Marathon 2 was, then I bet vac-BoBs will fly (that is, fly without the aid of a SPNKr or some other explosive device [spnkr] [MGrin] ). Oh well, big deal. Even if Ex Pluribus doesn't work very well, I can just pull less ambitious scenarios out my ear for years to come.

On the other hand, if it works out pretty well...

Cheers,
Perseus
Last edited by PerseusSpartacus on Jul 20th '12, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 20th '12, 05:06

RyokoTK wrote:Why don't people just make three-level Infinity scenarios like the good old days of 1997? They'd still be really good and fun. And, you know, it might get finished.


Did people ever play 3 level scenarios? With a plot and everything?
listener

Post Jul 20th '12, 06:11

Bungie's mapmaking contest was in 1997. It had a limit of 3 levels per scenario. So yes, there were a fair number of short scenarios at that time (relative to the total community activity, anyway), and there were a fair number of people playing them.

It's true, the success rate of fan-made scenarios is dismal, in this or any other game. But I try to be supportive, not cynical. You should set realistic goals, make progress incrementally, team up and pool your efforts, and perhaps above all else possess extraordinary discipline.

If we didn't have people willing to dream big circa 1997, we wouldn't have most of the scenarios that we consider the cream of the crop today.
Last edited by Crater Creator on Jul 20th '12, 06:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Crater Creator

Post Jul 20th '12, 11:05

PerseusSpartacus wrote:or Dugit's Marathon: Aeon project

It depends which part of that project you happen to be looking at. :)
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

riveting six-vertice amnesty ratifications
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Dugit
Hampshire, UK

Post Jul 20th '12, 13:09

Crater Creator wrote:we wouldn't have most of the scenarios that we consider the cream of the crop today.

To be honest, I could live without them.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jul 20th '12, 13:17

listener wrote:Did people ever play 3 level scenarios? With a plot and everything?


I would, anyway. And why not? I'd take ten 3-level scenarios over one 30-level scenario, in part because the ten short ones would actually be finished.

At best, it would be something on a par with your Marathon: Phoenix
Phoenix took me years to make, dude, and it came close to flatlining multiple times, but the ultimate origin of what eventually became Phoenix started with a six-level Infinity scenario. It's difficult to appreciate how much labor is really involved in making a major conversion like this, and how boring it gets after a while.

If we didn't have people willing to dream big circa 1997, we wouldn't have most of the scenarios that we consider the cream of the crop today.


The project leads behind Tempus Irae, Evil, and Excalibur all had M2/Infinity scenarios to precede them. Rubicon might have, too, I don't remember.

Dream big, start small.

Edit to add: Making a short Infinity scenario beforehand allows you to get incredibly valuable critique on all of your design fundamentals first. It'd be nice to know before you set off on your nonlinear mega adventure with a thousand levels if you're actually capable of making a tolerable map, or if you can actually write readable English. (Not everyone can do these things!)
Last edited by RyokoTK on Jul 20th '12, 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 20th '12, 14:49

Three level M2/Infinity scenario contest time!
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jul 20th '12, 17:12

Treellama wrote:Three level M2/Infinity scenario contest time!

Most definitely. I'm in, at least just so I can get RyokoTK to stop pestering me. ;)

Cheers,
Perseus
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 20th '12, 17:17

Treellama wrote:Three level M2/Infinity scenario contest time!


15-year anniversary of the incredibly cool contest CD release! (I think? Or was that 98?)
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 20th '12, 17:31

Heh, I'm game.
listener

Post Jul 20th '12, 20:12

A challenge?! I must accept it! Give me some time and I'm sure to throw together a great idea in my head to get to work on.

Listening to this doesn't help to keep me from trying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqmav3YbKto...7n61oXRZwxaOqig
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Destiny
TEXAS

Post Jul 20th '12, 20:14

Hey, how about instead of waiting for some pointless "contest" to come around, why not just MAKE STUFF and watch people fawn over you for being cool.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 20th '12, 20:16

I sometimes lack motivation. Contests and deadlines will give some to me. Also, I planned on eventually getting back to mapping. I have this cool idea for a new solo project.
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Destiny
TEXAS

Post Jul 20th '12, 21:07

Destiny wrote:I have this cool idea for a new solo project.

mararthon: phil
patrick
末法

Post Jul 21st '12, 03:46

I already have a cool idea for a scenario. Creepy, but cool. It'll include some modified stuff (i.e. shapes and physics, mostly), but it'll be worth it. I'll just say it has something to do with viruses. ;)

Cheers,
Perseus
Powerful experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

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