3D Items Plugin for Infinity

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Feb 23rd '12, 19:03

Another thing I noticed was the rocket launcher. At first I thought I might be getting a graphical error, but I just looked at the screens you have posted on Simplici7y and they're exactly what I'm seeing in game.

Compare the color of the rocket launcher model you have with the original weapon item sprite. Are the cylinders of the rocket launcher that much darker? Or are they the same gray as the rest of the weapon? I'm currently unable to compare, but I can do so later. My reaction seeing them in game yesterday was that they were too dark.
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Feb 23rd '12, 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 24th '12, 00:06

In case you haven't seen this other thread, using <model type="obj"> instead of "wave" might make your 3D workflow a little easier -- the coordinate system is no longer backwards from most apps. Glen fixed a couple of bugs with it too, I'd avoid "wave" for new work.
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Hopper

Post Feb 24th '12, 00:48

If my analysis is correct, the problems are occurring because somewhere in importing or exporting, the normals of the polygons are being flipped. This would result in a black shape, or a white, textured version, being displayed in different versions. If normals are flipped, all the polygons themselves are on the inside of the surface, rather than facing outwards. I've not actually seen any screenshots, so this may not be an accurate assessment.

With respect to the file format, I've never ever used a wave file, so unless what you're trying to import is VERY old, using .obj will work much better, I think. Again, I'm not actually that informed as to what's going on here, but these are my guesses.
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envy
Land of the New Rising Sun

Post Feb 24th '12, 07:12

Here's my visual comparison for the rocket launcher, starting with the currently implemented model alongside the original and my edit.

The current version is looking more blue than it should, and the top edges of the cylinders are too dark. The handle should be a dark brown, and the piece just in front of it should be light gray (silver). I'm not sure where the inspiration for the pink shoulder pad came from; I would probably just keep it dark. My mockup was done hastily and could use a few finishing touches, particularly on the cylinders, but I think you get the idea.
[attachment=5512:rocket_01_copy.jpg] [attachment=5513:rocket__...nal_copy.jpg] [attachment=5515:rocket_02_copy.jpg]

I also noticed the burn marks you added to the tip of the flamethrower's nozzle. I think it would look better without them. But if you're positive about having burn marks, make them black instead of yellow. Yellow depicts a stain (perhaps rust), but singeing by fire is always black.
Attachments
rocket_02_copy.jpg
rocket_02_copy.jpg (130.02 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
rocket___original_copy.jpg
rocket___original_copy.jpg (30.2 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
rocket_01_copy.jpg
rocket_01_copy.jpg (134.92 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Feb 24th '12, 07:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 24th '12, 08:32

The textures of the rocket launcher were taken straight from the Marathon Max mod, but i think they really could use some work - I think I'll publish an 1.2 update soon.

Btw, you now have access to the texture files so feel free to make the changes yourself and submit them here.
Last edited by thedoctor45 on Feb 24th '12, 08:59, edited 1 time in total.
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thedoctor45

Post Feb 24th '12, 19:37

I've uploaded v1.2 to Simplici7y - this will be the final release, grab it here -> Link

I hope everything is satisfactory now.
PS: No, I won't close the lids on the ammoboxes - I think it looks ok the way it is.

Anyway I hope you enjoy. [spnkr]
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thedoctor45

Post Feb 24th '12, 20:33

Found something weird while playing Shadows of Brooklyn from Second Quest. Viewing the SMG from below this shelf turns some parts of the object white. Viewing from above displays it as normal. Screenshots at the bottom of my post. I haven't seen this happen with other items, or even with the same item at another location (yet).

I wonder if Ukimalefu could use these SMG models to complete the XBLA Marine?

Also, I wonder if Weland will need to be able to set an item's facing direction now. For the time being, you can trick it by placing a player spawnpoint, setting the facing direction, then switching the object type to the desired item.

EDIT: Nice work on this plugin by the way, doctor! I still prefer the earlier health canisters though, so I put them back. :)
Attachments
3D_SMG_Below.png
3D_SMG_Below.png (434.21 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
3D_SMG_Above.png
3D_SMG_Above.png (621.44 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
Last edited by President People on Feb 24th '12, 20:35, edited 1 time in total.
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President People

Post Feb 24th '12, 20:49

President People wrote:Also, I wonder if Weland will need to be able to set an item's facing direction now.

Have you tried it? :)
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Feb 24th '12, 20:59

Treellama wrote:Have you tried it? :)

Monsters and Scenery, yes, but item's direction facing still can't be turned (not directly, at least).

Unless there's a version of Weland later than 1.3?
Attachments
Weland_1.3_Item_Parameters.png
Weland_1.3_Item_Parameters.png (27.49 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
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President People

Post Feb 24th '12, 21:40

Weird, I thought I added that. Oh well!
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Feb 25th '12, 06:32

Nice work on the improvements, thedoctor45! I will definitely be using this plugin.

I also found some weird stuff. This white edge can only be seen on the left side of the shotgun:
[attachment=5523:shotgun.jpg]

There's an unusual light blue glow that can be seen on the planes facing towards the front of the rocket launcher. There's a few on this side:
[attachment=5524:rocket_01.jpg]

And another one here in the back (although you can kind of see it in a few other places if you look closely):
[attachment=5525:rocket_02.jpg]

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Attachments
rocket_02.jpg
rocket_02.jpg (225.7 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
rocket_01.jpg
rocket_01.jpg (239.74 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
shotgun.jpg
shotgun.jpg (118.74 KiB) Viewed 3684 times
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 25th '12, 09:37

I agree with pretty much all the color correction type feedback people have made. The models seemed somehow 'cartoony' at first, and I think the color was the cause.

The models themselves are excellent. It's difficult to explain, but there are cases where the original item sprite and weapon-in-hand sprite have never truly looked like the same model to me. That is, that the two views didn't quite match up with each other. For some of these cases, these 3D models provide a missing link between the two such that it all makes sense visually.

Have you experimented with rotating the weapons to lie on the ground realistically instead of being perched on the ground irrespective of balance? There's something about having them in 3D that makes that stand out, that I'm expecting them to fall over, in a way that never bothered me when they were sprites. Does anyone else find that more noticeable now? I don't know if rendering them in a fallen over position will look better... but it might.
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Crater Creator

Post Feb 25th '12, 10:24

Crater Creator wrote:I agree with pretty much all the color correction type feedback people have made. The models seemed somehow 'cartoony' at first, and I think the color was the cause.

The models themselves are excellent. It's difficult to explain, but there are cases where the original item sprite and weapon-in-hand sprite have never truly looked like the same model to me. That is, that the two views didn't quite match up with each other. For some of these cases, these 3D models provide a missing link between the two such that it all makes sense visually.

Have you experimented with rotating the weapons to lie on the ground realistically instead of being perched on the ground irrespective of balance? There's something about having them in 3D that makes that stand out, that I'm expecting them to fall over, in a way that never bothered me when they were sprites. Does anyone else find that more noticeable now? I don't know if rendering them in a fallen over position will look better... but it might.


Either go for the "realistic" fallen-over method, or perhaps do something similar to how Quake 3 did it. Weapons floating in the air, rotating (if i remember correctly. Been a while...) They wouldn't need to be rotating but perhaps sort of hover up and down.

Personally, I would vote for the lying on the ground. At least try that and see how it works out.
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JohannesG

Post Feb 25th '12, 12:55

There will always be people who like the upright version better than the "fallen over" one and vice versa - there are good arguments for both approaches - ultimately it's a matter of personal preference - if you want them lying on the ground you can adjust the rotation and position of the weapons manually in the inlcuded mml script.
Last edited by thedoctor45 on Feb 25th '12, 12:56, edited 1 time in total.
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thedoctor45

Post Feb 25th '12, 14:31

Alright I've decided to release one last version of this plugin which addresses the two texture inconsistencies mentioned above.

Download v1.2.1
Last edited by thedoctor45 on Feb 25th '12, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
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thedoctor45

Post Feb 25th '12, 21:41

Not a biggie, but to make everything complete, update the screen shots.
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goran

Post Feb 25th '12, 22:55

Ares Ex Machina wrote:lighting problems

When the normals are bad, the lighting is bad. The Model Debugger plugin is now on Simplici7y for just this problem. (It was previously tucked away in this thread.)

Some quality time with that tool yielded this corrected items plugin, which provides a better foundation for improvement. I did not touch up the images at all besides flipping them; highlights and shadows may need tweaking to compensate for the new lighting situation.
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Hopper

Post Feb 26th '12, 00:11

Hopper wrote:When the normals are bad, the lighting is bad. The Model Debugger plugin is now on Simplici7y for just this problem. (It was previously tucked away in this thread.)

Some quality time with that tool yielded this corrected items plugin, which provides a better foundation for improvement. I did not touch up the images at all besides flipping them; highlights and shadows may need tweaking to compensate for the new lighting situation.


Nice, i notice that the surface anomalies on some 3D models have now disappeared - however your pngs are slightly darker than the version I included - idk how that happened though.
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thedoctor45

Post Feb 26th '12, 06:29

thedoctor45 wrote:Nice, i notice that the surface anomalies on some 3D models have now disappeared

Many of your MML parameters were set to inappropriate or invalid values. In particular, side and norm_type are important to get right. When writing MML, it's often best to only specify the values you know you need to change. Copying from existing MML can pick up non-default settings that aren't right for your situation.

Some models needed more MML help than others, not surprising considering the different sources. The fusion ammo in particular had funny normals baked in, and the ammo box normals weren't rebuilt after lowering the lid. Things like that could be fixed in the .obj instead, but MML does the job so I didn't bother changing any .obj files.

however your pngs are slightly darker than the version I included

OS X's Preview probably applied a color profile or something. I reconverted them and updated the zip.

Now get outta here and use these tips to make Halathon more awesome ;)
Last edited by Hopper on Feb 26th '12, 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Hopper

Post Feb 26th '12, 08:08

Just tried out version 1.3. Looks great! Thanks thedoctor45 for all the hard work. And thanks Hopper for the help!
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 26th '12, 09:03

Hmm. Now that I actually try them in game instead of just looking at screenshots, I'm not as bothered by them resting precariously on the ground. In fact, it's more bothersome when I see a weapon head on instead of in profile; it can be hard to see which weapon it is. This would be worse in a netgame where you're picking up weapons all the time. Like Jóhannes mentioned, I remember how in Quake 3 (and Unreal Tournament and probably other series) weapons hover off the ground and slowly spin. I'd thought it was just so they stand out because they're in motion, but I now realize it solves the problem of seeing them from a bad angle as well.

Another idea if somebody's willing to take the effort... how about making high-res weapon in hand graphics out of these models? I think they're more faithful than the XBLA weapons and Visicom's weapon enhancement pack.
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Crater Creator

Post Feb 26th '12, 12:49

Hopper wrote:Many of your MML parameters were set to inappropriate or invalid values. In particular, side and norm_type are important to get right. When writing MML, it's often best to only specify the values you know you need to change. Copying from existing MML can pick up non-default settings that aren't right for your situation.


I know but there's hardly any detailed documentation on how to handle 3D stuff in AlephOne - I used this guide HERE as a reference which is ofc horribly outdated and basically just tells you to copy paste. Anyway thanks for your help it is much appreciated.


Hopper wrote:Now get outta here and use these tips to make Halathon more awesome ;)
Will do! [spnkr]
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thedoctor45

Post Apr 1st '12, 01:23

I had an 'aha' moment recently. The 3D items don't need animations or engine code to rotate. They just need a lua script. It's dead simple, but it does the job.

[attachment=5609:rotating_items.lua.zip]

It applies indiscriminately to all items, so it should work with any 3D items plugins made in the future. For some reason the missile launcher in particular isn't rotating; I don't know why.

I was hoping to make this into a plugin, so it can be layered on top of whatever other lua scripts you may want to run, but apparently that's not currently possible in Aleph One. Consequently, if you want to use it in netgames the gatherer will have to select it as the netscript. Anyone's welcome to bundle this bit of script in their own 3D items work (again, the script itself is profoundly trivial).
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rotating_items.lua.zip
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Crater Creator

Post Apr 1st '12, 12:23

Now, do 3D gun models. Please ^_^
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Mavrik
Sweden

Post Apr 1st '12, 16:25

Mavrik wrote:Now, do 3D gun models. Please ^_^

If you mean weapon in hand sprites, what we have is what we're gonna get. To be fair, many of them were rendered in 3D and then exported into frames for the sprites.
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L'howon
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