JUICE

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Oct 16th '07, 00:27

We aren't sure yet. Honestly, the only thing I could see myself using it for is adding odd textures here and there, but because it might be convenient to add new item shapes/sequences (e.g. real flags for CTF/Lua maps), I wouldn't mind seeing all kinds of shapes. So far, the only restriction is that there may not be embedded landscapes.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 16th '07, 02:36

Megabyte wrote:will this happen for sounds as well?

No
what happens if you are using mml replaced shapes?
The bitmap parts of the replacement will be ignored, but the opacity type, scale, etc., will still be in effect.

Bobwithkeycard wrote:On another note: how about boosting the max file size to 512kb or something in that area, then it'd be possible to play in a complete custom texture set ( like new 30 textures ). So one could play in M1 walls for instance..just for a single map..and without having to have M1A1 installed.

512K would lead to very long distribution times for net games; on the order of 75 seconds or so for a 7 player game; for your typical 6 minute net game, that's far too long. 256K, along with the new zlib compression of map / Lua / physics, should result in distribution times of no more than 15 or 20 seconds, which I think is tolerable.

Tommy-TBone wrote:Will this be for textures only?

All Anvil 1.0.3 shapes patches appear to work, although only the standard collections will be used. The custom collections of landscapes and weapons-in-hand will be ignored. There may be unexpected problems with use of shapes other than textures, since that's really all I had in mind for it.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 16th '07, 10:32

First of all... zlib compression? Do I have to change all of my file names again?
Secondly: I think that this is a great idea, and (theoretically) I can now inter-TC host, minus the weapons in hand and landscapes.
Sweet/tyvm
Can't speel for hist.
Phortiphy

Post Oct 16th '07, 11:23

Pfhortipfhy wrote:Secondly: I think that this is a great idea, and (theoretically) I can now inter-TC host, minus the weapons in hand and landscapes.

No, you can not. That is not what this is for at all. Please read THIS THREAD YOU POSTED IN for details.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 16th '07, 12:08

Treellama wrote:should result in distribution times of no more than 15 or 20 seconds, which I think is tolerable.

As long as people know before hand. If they aren't warned, they may think that the game isn't loading properly, and quit.
Mordekai

Post Oct 16th '07, 14:47

Mordekai wrote:As long as people know before hand. If they aren't warned, they may think that the game isn't loading properly, and quit.


Hopefully, when maps using embedded stuff become known, players will already join with some memory that certain levels take a little longer to load.
Last edited by irons on Oct 16th '07, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 16th '07, 14:54

irons wrote:Hopefully, when maps using embedded stuff become known, players will already join with some memory that certain levels take a little longer to load.

Is it possible (or desirable) to place a splash screen while a game is being sent that basically says, "loading embedded stuff, keep your pants on" so that joiners, well, keep their pants on?
~if I had a rocket launcher, I'd make someone~
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epstein
North Carolina

Post Oct 16th '07, 15:02

It already says "Receiving map from gatherer"
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 16th '07, 15:02

Maybe, but I don't really think it will take that long to load. Even if it does, there is a "receiving level data" screen; most people worry when that goes away and the display is just blank, but they will wait patiently as long as it's there (the same way they do for the CTF script).
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 16th '07, 15:25

Ah, ok. I guess 15-20 seconds wouldn't be so long that people would think it's hung. You're right that it's when it goes blank the panic starts (especially if all they hear is a siren...). I guess I was imagining it switching from the "receiving map from gatherer" to "receiving JUICE from gatherer" when there's extra stuff to send.
Last edited by epstein on Oct 16th '07, 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
~if I had a rocket launcher, I'd make someone~
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epstein
North Carolina

Post Oct 16th '07, 15:29

Nope! The beauty of this method is that all the stuff is found within the level data; it's just a new "ShPa" chunk among older, more familiar chunks like POLY and OBJS.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 16th '07, 17:40

aight...I think there is also a "BnB" chunk somewhere in the level data...but you have to really stare at it
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I bring my own plasma rifle to the house of pain
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Bobwithkeycard
AMS-Tower

Post Oct 16th '07, 17:48

epstein wrote:receiving JUICE from gatherer

Hold on a second. A message like that will only get people's hopes up. A gatherer can't just hand out JUICE. You have to earn it. When they realize they had no more JUICE than they did before the game started, they'll probably just cry themselves to sleep.
- JUICE is the only way.
[8FTB]
taps you the eight-foot-tall Burton
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JUICEMAN

Post Oct 16th '07, 17:53

JUICEMAN wrote:Hold on a second. A message like that will only get people's hopes up. A gatherer can't just hand out JUICE. You have to earn it. When they realize they had no more JUICE than they did before the game started, they'll probably just cry themselves to sleep.


I agree.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 21st '07, 01:53

JUICE v1.1.1 is ready for action. The new version of Aleph One should be released very soon, and we've been given the go-ahead to get JUICE rolling out the door. Mappers, in preparation for embedded shapes in A1, visit one of these links to get the new JUICE:
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 21st '07, 02:08

First downlaod :D...

Looks great, can't wait to get the JUICE pumping through my maps... my future maps will be bursting out of the seems with JUICE! (Hopefully)
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$lave

Post Oct 21st '07, 02:18

Don't overdo it :) We've made sure in 1.1.1 to limit patch sizes to 256K per map, anyway. Oh, yes, here's a warning: apparently, the Anvil patch format was changed around a few times, so Aleph One only works with those from Anvil 1.0.3 (not sure about that weird beta of 1.0.3, though). So if you make a patch, be sure it's from that version, or you'll have problems on your hands.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 21st '07, 02:37

If you get both the new JUICE and the new Aleph One, take a look at the Patch Thread.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 21st '07, 02:45

So Hakville doesn't work? I'm pretty sure it's actually just 1.0.3 modified format wise actually... so maybe it does?
Last edited by $lave on Oct 21st '07, 02:49, edited 1 time in total.
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$lave

Post Oct 21st '07, 02:51

I guess there's only one way to find out: try it. But please don't blame us if 7 suddenly steals your brain for use against the JUICE.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 21st '07, 03:06

I will take the plunge into test-dome

the 7 will never take my brain.

And the JUICE will never lose my soul, never.
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$lave

Post Oct 21st '07, 04:28

[MGrin] I made this using mostly Hakville, although you need to use Anvil to make a patch. I tested it in net, and it worked fine so here it is...

(Moved to patch thread)
Last edited by $lave on Oct 21st '07, 16:16, edited 1 time in total.
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$lave

Post Oct 21st '07, 14:52

Yo big chief, why isn't this in the Patch Thread?!
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Oct 21st '07, 16:15

Sorry about that, it has been moved.
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$lave

Post Oct 22nd '07, 12:45

Okay, this is just something I thought of now, that I wasn't completely sure of (sorry if it's a stupid question)...

Does JUICE only send the bitmap file(s) from the shapes file or the colour table also? I ask this because it was neccessary for me to change the colour table for two bitmaps to make them look better, if the colour table isn't sent to the other player(s), then those two bitmaps would be a bit of a mess.
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$lave

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