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Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Apr 1st '09, 15:06

Speaking of lessening the challenge, I've been wanting to comment on the level system, but I haven't quite processed how I feel about it. Essentially I wonder if there should be an xp cap of some sort. At the moment, you can kill the same pfhor and be slain by the next until you reach level eleventeen billion. You could do this to have access to all the best equipment before playing every subsequent map. Maybe the level xp system should be counted for each map only, if possible.

Is there a maximum level that can be achieved? I assume Level 24 means there's a surplus of credits for equipment. It be nice to spend the remaining somehow. Perhaps surplus could use to blow on field medkits, or the new duck/roll command you're considering. Or cap it.

Also, I haven't played enough to be sure how xp's gained, but perhaps it should be exponential to slow down level advancement, if it's not already.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Apr 1st '09, 16:39

As an addon to that, the reason I find it frustrating is because on Prodigal sons, I have enough credits to max out my S'pht. But because of the cap I can only use 10 credits, which means I can't fully max out. Credits (more than 10) would work if things got progressively expensive (like the S'pht). It really only doesn't work on God of Dread because you can beat the entire level with just 2 credits.
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

Post Apr 1st '09, 17:18

Oh, are you saying you can only equip 10 credits worth of equipment at a time? I thought you were complaining about the number of retrys only. I forgot the credits available for equipment purchase subtracted from the credits used for retrys.

I agree with what CubicCircle means about not having an abundance of retrys (i.e., Halo). Though, normally in a game I would expect if there is a max. player xp level, whatever the bonus is to having that amount of xp would be able to be applied somehow. Maybe the current setup is part of the strategy? You need to choose a good gun vs. good armour, or lots of retrys. If so, at a certain point it leveling up will become pointless (eg., when you reach level 10).
Last edited by effigy on Apr 1st '09, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
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effigy

Post Apr 1st '09, 18:33

No, I have no problem with retry limit, but that needs to be expressed separately (I.E., lives).

Also, I see your point about armor, etc. I'm not sure how that can be balanced out at the moment, but something needs to be done.

As far as leveling, exactly. As I said before, there is no advantage to me being level 24 ingame. I don't get extra points, there's no benefit other than "Look at me, I wasted all this time for nothing!"
I have been wading in a long river and my feet are wet.
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

Post Apr 1st '09, 18:35

Lh wrote:"Look at me, I wasted all this time for nothing!"


Thank you.

I suppose I could say the same.
Last edited by Nitocris on Apr 1st '09, 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Nitocris

Post Apr 1st '09, 18:44

CubicCircle wrote:Thank you.

I suppose I could say the same.


I hope you're not serious.

edit: I tried to provide suggestions for complaints hoping to avoid that sort of comment. If they're not possible or are contrary to your philosophy for this game, that doesn't make the project a failure, which is what that comment suggests to me you think.
Last edited by effigy on Apr 1st '09, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
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effigy

Post Apr 1st '09, 18:56

effigy wrote:If they're not possible or are contrary to your philosophy for this game, that doesn't make the project a failure

I miss W'rkncacnter.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Apr 1st '09, 19:06

Me too.
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effigy

Post Apr 1st '09, 23:19

Marathon Freedom is far from a waste of time. It's been one of the happiest Marathon times I've had in a long while.

That being said, I can see what Lh'owon and Effigy are talking about.

Why not put a level cap or add an unlocks system where you get something new, but small, after each level? It's more work obviously, but you decide what happens and what doesn't happen. Also, why not make it so that in every level there are enough credits to create the "ultimate load-out" for that level? However, just enough credits, making it so that if you choose to use the "ultimate load-out" it's a once or nothing thing?

Regarding your reply to my last message:

There is no problem with the starting position for the Tears of K'lia level. I understand now and it makes sense! I always thought the other Pfhor teleported in the center for some reason...

I'll go look up some PiD manuel text for you that explains the level mission and is cool to read. I'll get back to you as soon as I can for that.


I'm still having major amounts of fun with this project! You really have outdone yourself with this CubicCircle!

At some point, would you like a manuel created to go along with Marathon: Freedom that explains how everything works as well as a walkthrough for the levels? I could arrange this for you and edit things as you change stuff in new releases.
If you would like to help the MaraPiD project, send me a personal message.

Download the Marathon: Pathways into Darkness Beta:
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Winter_Wolf
The inner catacombs of a dark pyramid.

Post Apr 2nd '09, 00:44

Along the lines of building up to an "ultimate load-out" dare I suggest simply doing away with gaining xp? Instead allot 10 U.E.S.C. Credits to budget equipment / retries? Think of it as a limit on the number of items Poor Yorick, err... B.o.B. has the strength to carry. I'm not sure how much RPG feel would get lost with that, but I think it would be minimal.
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effigy

Post Apr 2nd '09, 01:52

Whoa whoa whoa, way to take that on the chin Cubic.

I simply meant to emphasize the fact that the leveling system is pointless. Since most games with levels tie some sort of reward to leveling, and at the current moment the leveling system has nothing tied to it, I thought to bring up that topic. If you interpreted it as I don't care and wish you would stop, you are sadly mistaken. I enjoy playing this game immensely and this latest revision is by far the best.

On a different note, I think Effigy's suggestion has more potential. With you adding in the "arena" perhaps additional credits for weapons outfit and such could be gained up to a certain cap by betting in the arena or completing levels. More work would need to be done (Very easy to lose those credits just as fast, making it incredibly hard to regain.)

As to Winter's suggestion, perhaps there should be no "Ultimate gear-out". For the sake of balance and always making things interesting, etc. I will say, just as a recent comment, even the upgraded troopers on "Tears of K'lia" are killed with one S'pht bolt. That's REALLY frustrating but perhaps it is balanced all things considered. In the Marathon universe though, it's much different. I don't know if it should be altered but thats just my 2 cents
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

Post Apr 2nd '09, 03:04

What I mean by "ultimate load-out" is all of the most expensive gear put into one life. Not an uber powerful choice, just all of the most expensive gear available in that level. For example, the S'pht'kr Defender should be able to have the max speed enhancement and shield separation item but the total cost = all of the available credits. Hence, you get the ultimate load-out, but only one life. Whereas you could use cheaper gear and have more lives.

Although, I like the XP. I think it has a lot of potential and should stay.

Also, I enjoy that everything dies really easy. Aside from the troopers everything dies at what I consider to be the max health they should have. Troopers, I find they can be tough when they want to be and survive when necessary. They're okay for the moment I think.
If you would like to help the MaraPiD project, send me a personal message.

Download the Marathon: Pathways into Darkness Beta:
http://rapidshare.com/files/48405034/MPiD_Version_0.5.zip
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Winter_Wolf
The inner catacombs of a dark pyramid.

Post Apr 2nd '09, 06:31

CubicCircle wrote:Why thank you, since I am only ONE PERSON with no education in the field, nor any professional tools save one.

Are you referring to the Unity 3D thing mentioned earlier?



CubicCircle wrote:Surely I deserve to be likened to 30 men strong workgroups of paid professionals who do this as a full time job.
Yes indeed.

Well, it was more like I was likening the end result of your work to the end result of their work, not necessarily comparing the productivity, capability, or resources at any given time.



CubicCircle wrote:Yes, I understand. However, where is it to say how many credits you have left then? "Start (Credits left: 10)" could work.

I personally recommend making the button used to Start and Continue very large, and have it say "Start" or "Continue" (based on the situation, of course) in a large, bold font. Above that (and below the sliders used to spend credits), you could display how many credits are left in smaller print (not necessarily fine print, but simply smaller than the larger text on the Start/Continue button).



CubicCircle wrote:I didn't want to make a run and gun game where you mow down hordes of enemies until your mind was numb. I wanted more of an emotional journey, of anger, fear and desperation.

I respect that you have a creative vision and you're sticking with it. Go with it!



CubicCircle wrote:Animation = pain in the ass. More animations = more pain in same.

Well, you could at least have the player character change posture when he's stunned. That way we know when he's recovered, and when we can control him again.



CubicCircle wrote:I always like games controlled like that. Where you have to think through your position. However, here you can shoot and move at the same time, which is a huge difference.

It is a huge difference. But I was talking about movement, not attacking.



CubicCircle wrote:Hope this answers everything.

Thanks for the thorough reply!
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Apr 7th '09, 00:20

Okay, a few qualms I had with this (also, I haven't read the whole thread so some of this may have come up already). Starred things are personal preference, the rest I consider needed.

1.) No weapon descriptions
2.) No stat descriptions
3*.) Can't move after being hit (can't fire I understand, but in the 'kr level, if you get hit with a melee attack, you're screwed)
4*.) Shield Removal does nothing. What the heck is it???
5.) You can't see the whole arena.
6.) If part of your character sprite is in the wall, you can't fire.
7.) Drinnol's can get stuck in the door, and shot and killed that way.
8.) No health bar except for 'kr.
9*.) No max credit increase.
10.) No weapon stats displayed.
11*.) 'Kr health fills way too slow.
12.) Fighter staff swing hitbox is very small compared to it's animation. Very hard to gauge, almost impossible to hit things when you're moving.
13*.) Troopers can pwn 'kr way too easily.

Very solid start. Thumbs up! I look forward to playing the various versions as they progress!
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Phortiphy

Post Apr 13th '09, 04:54

I really like this project. Its really fun. I hope to see more levels.
but i agree with some of these:
Pfhortipfhy wrote:1.) No weapon descriptions
2.) No stat descriptions
10.) No weapon stats displayed.


hope to see more of this
Its just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
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megabyte
Asympotatoes, Mars

Post Apr 13th '09, 10:18

It was very cool to play this. Good job!

Here's some menu suggestions in illustrative form. I heard many others thought the menues
could use improvement, but none of them gave any real examples:



-added a "start game" button
-the level select now also show what characters are playable on each level




-added a start game button



-the start game button fades to tell the user he cannot start the game
-the credits turn red to indicate there's something wrong with the credits
Last edited by goran on Apr 13th '09, 10:26, edited 1 time in total.
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goran

Post Apr 15th '09, 20:32

This project has been very cool so far. [MGrin]

Two options i'd like to see in the future are:
1. Crosshairs in one form or another that show where your center of fire is.
2. A very slight autoaim , say 1 or 2 degrees off center.

Keep it up! [MUp]
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Grenth

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