Mr. Project DX

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Mar 31st '09, 13:10

Shadowbreaker wrote:This idea would allow level back-tracking, like in Prime Target and Pathways.

Uh, you can't read annotations from other levels, just the one you're on. So, how would this help you move information between levels?
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Apr 19th '09, 11:19

Updates, Questions, Etc...

Well, it's been a while since I posted about Mr. Project DX, and since I've been busy with school and other concerns lately, please forgive me for it.

Right now, I am focusing on fleshing out more textures, developing story concepts, and thinking of new ways to screw around with Lua. All of this is going along slowly, due to the circumstances, but I haven't really stopped working.

As for the textures, I am still focusing on the urban theme, and of course going back and improving what's already there when I can. If anyone wants to get involved with this, I would be willing to share what I already have, and make some of the big .psd files available. I am also willing to share all of my textures and elements with anyone else who is working on a project that might require hi-res urban textures in exchange for help, too. If this interests you, please drop me a PM.

The story is coming along in my head, and I am writing down bits here and there to try to piece together something coherent. It will involve an AI, but the extent to which the player interacts with the AI is not a constant throughout the story, nor will it necessarily be anything similar to the typical Marathon dynamic. I had a crazy idea in which the AI itself would be treated, essentially, like an item. Acquiring the aid of the AI changes a lot of the interaction with computer terminals, and makes completion of the story possible, but is not going to be a strictly defining element of the gameplay until such time as the player character makes contact with the AI.

I'd also really like to start talking with anyone who is skilled in 3d modeling and might be interested in joining onto the project. As it stands, I can do limited work with 3d objects, but the results are crude. I really want to push the limits of what OpenGL 3d replacement can do in Aleph One, so I really need skills that can meet up to that challenge. Again, if you are interested even in the slightest, please send me a PM.


And now, a question:

Now, this is a question mainly for Treellama (on the off chance he happens across this), but anyone should feel free to add in their two cents as to what I am talking about here, and maybe give some opinions on how they would feel about it. I know none of you really like to talk about your feelings, and that you're all emotionally stunted, but please feel free to have a heart to heart with me in this thread if you see something that makes you think "Wow, that sounds cool", or "Hey, are you sure that's a good idea?"...

With the possibility of persistent Lua, I had a wicked thought. This isn't especially tied into that subject so much, so I am posting this here, instead of in that thread. Could I run a separate Lua script on level init to set up terminal assignments based on certain user data values? You may recall that I was toying around with setting up a function that would allow an action key attempt on a scenery object to access a terminal. One of the problems with that was that there was no apparent way to connect the object index to the terminal index. Of course, if I were to assume a fixed object index, and use a level-specific Lua script to assign specific terminals to specific objects, it would be feasible. Can I ask the interpreter to call up other Lua scripts and run them based on which level I am in? And, could those Lua scripts have a function to assign different object/terminal relationships based on user data settings which would be carried around by the Persistent Lua functions?

I hope at least some of that made sense. I know you still haven't even released anything pertaining to Persistent Lua, so I am afraid to be jumping the gun here. Is any of that feasible?

To break it down to basic points:

1. Is it possible for a Lua script to call up and run another Lua script?

2. Can I use the values generated from running that Lua script in the first one?


Final Thoughts for Now

Aside from the basic groundwork I am doing, I am also preparing to create and release a small demo of the textures I have so far (and will have soon) and some of the 3d objects, and some parts of the Lua. This is just to give people an idea of the kind of world I am creating, and to get feedback on what people like and don't like.

I am somewhat busy in the world outside of Marathon, so I can't make any firm promises as to when this will happen, but at the soonest, I would look forward to it around the end of May, depending on how far I get with textures between now and then, and whatever other factors either help or hinder me.

Oh, and as a little bonus prize I have hidden into your box of cereal, I will show you a half-size preview of a texture I did today. I always liked these stupid glass-block window things, since they remind me of the decade in which I was born. I'll be including this into the project as a semi-transparent texture, and if used properly, it should make for a really cool effect in the maps to come. You can look forward to it in the mini-demo.

[attachment=2657:Picture_1.png]


Transparency Test:

[attachment=2658:boobglass.jpg]
Last edited by Kurinn on Apr 19th '09, 11:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurinn

Post Apr 19th '09, 12:36

Kurinn wrote:1. Is it possible for a Lua script to call up and run another Lua script?

No, but you don't need to. You can (and should) assign Lua scripts to levels by embedding them using Atque.
2. Can I use the values generated from running that Lua script in the first one?

All scripts that run in the same state (there are separate states for net scripts, embedded scripts, and the solo script) share the same globals and custom variables. So if your level runs three embedded scripts, they can all access those variables. This will require some minor triggers trickery but it's possible. Or you could just run them all as one big script.

Also, lolboobglass
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Apr 19th '09, 19:24

I look forward to staring at asian women through that glass, particularly Bridget, and radioactive panty clad vending machines.
I have been wading in a long river and my feet are wet.
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

Post Apr 19th '09, 22:05

Nice texture Kurinn! It looks like a Kasumi (DOA) cosplay behind the window.
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goran

Post May 21st '09, 09:41

Another Fine Update...

Well, it seems that my classes have all been canceled until at least next Thursday, thanks to one dumb guy in Otsu who brought the flu back from Kobe to his own university in my prefecture. I drank a toast to that man, who had the intelligence to go to school on Monday morning even though he had an obvious fever and knew that Kobe was having a wonderful time with the dreaded shingata influenza. Given the amount of free time I now have, a good amount of drinking will be in order, amongst other activities.

So, with my newfound vacation/quarantine situation, I have decided to put some work into getting more textures knocked down, while looking at design concepts, geometry questions such as "how big should a typical doorframe be?", how each texture works, and doesn't work.

Don't expect some massive amount of progress, or a pre-alpha concept to toy with, simply because I have some free time. I don't want to get your hopes up when I probably still have other things to do in the real world, being a man who can only be in one place at one time, as opposed to [spoiler]the Multi-timeline Spock duo[/spoiler].

Here's some crap I did today. Included are the glass-brick tile thingy texture, the new tatami texture, a new wood texture, some stucco-like stuff texture, and other stuff that may or may not be seen in these screenshots.



These are still very rough, mind you, but it gives you at least a vague idea about how these latest textures will look at some point.

Oh, and speaking about textures... I don't know how many of you sniff around Fileball that often, but I also made a new sewage texture, which will eventually find it's way into Mr. Project DX once I get there (a large part of the game world will take be in a sewer!) It looks really nice with antialiasing and such, as the gradual blur gives the illusion of diffraction caused by methane offgassing as you look along the goo's surface into the horizon. I also must say that I really like Demkeston's sewage texture replacement. It looks a lot different from what sewage typically looks like in Marathon.

Anyway, if you like what you see below, go give my sewage texture a try as well, and look forward to someday sloshing around in the stuff in Mr. Project DX.

[attachment=2764:Picture_7.jpg]



One more thing...

If anyone is interested in working with me to make some killer urban earth landscapes, please drop me a line.
Last edited by Kurinn on May 21st '09, 11:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurinn

Post May 21st '09, 12:09

Excellent, Kurinn! I really like your wood textures!
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post May 21st '09, 16:51

Shameless plug: with Aorta you can create DXTC DDS textures that only take up 1/4 as much RAM and VRAM as PNGs, or uncompressed DDS files that have the mask and image in the same file, making for less MML hassle! They can also contain mipmaps which tend to look a little nicer than if you have Aleph One autogenerate them.

http://source.bungie.org/wiki/index.php/Re...t_Texture_Guide
Last edited by treellama on May 21st '09, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post May 21st '09, 19:38

Treellama wrote:Shameless plug: with Aorta you can create DXTC DDS textures that only take up 1/4 as much RAM and VRAM as PNGs, or uncompressed DDS files that have the mask and image in the same file, making for less MML hassle! They can also contain mipmaps which tend to look a little nicer than if you have Aleph One autogenerate them.

http://source.bungie.org/wiki/index.php/Re...t_Texture_Guide


You need not any shame to plug Aorta in this thread! I've already used Aorta to convert the first set of textures, actually. It really does make things work a lot better. The batch conversion function works like a charm, and I fully intend to use it for the actual final product.

Of course, I didn't convert the liquid textures that are on Fileball, but that was mostly laziness on my part. Eventually all of those will be converted too. However, one reason I did not convert those was also because I was hoping that people might just dump the PNGs into Photoshop or whatever other software they might use, and play with them either as alphas for other liquid textures, or whatever else they may do. If they want to do that, I save them the need of re-converting them through Aorta, and if they want DDS, then they can just use Aorta themselves, since it really is quite easy.

In any case, I find Aorta to be a crucial application for anyone making a high-res involved conversion at this stage of the game. It's simplicity and polish makes it stand quite well with anything else I use. If the various map editing options were to catch up to this level of quality, I might finally put away Forge!
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Kurinn

Post May 21st '09, 19:47

Kurinn wrote:However, one reason I did not convert those was also because I was hoping that people might just dump the PNGs into Photoshop or whatever other software they might use, and play with them either as alphas for other liquid textures, or whatever else they may do.

That makes sense!

Carry on, then, I just wanted to make sure MPDX was as optimized as it could be :)
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post May 22nd '09, 04:24

Those screenshots look great. The interiors are very realistically proportioned. You're quite adept at using what A1 can do well to full effect, at least from what I can see. The sewage actually looks like a choppy, uneven surface rather than a texture. If I didn't know better, I would assume there's a complex animated shader at work. I mean, if it weren't for the landscape and the lighting, it would be on par graphically with some pretty modern games out there.*


*[spoiler]I don't mean to imply the engine should or needs to keep up with modern games. I mean it purely as a compliment to Kurinn.[/spoiler]
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Crater Creator

Post May 22nd '09, 05:58

Personally I think a stagnant looking sewage pool is much cooler than a runny animated water that moden games have :P

My only problem with the sewage is that it looks kinda like Jell-O... water in sewers probably doesn't look that green and lively. Perhaps reduce saturation a bit? Then again, I don't know much about Japanese sewers...
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post May 22nd '09, 06:06

Shadowbreaker wrote:Personally I think a stagnant looking sewage pool is much cooler than a runny animated water that moden games have :P

My only problem with the sewage is that it looks kinda like Jell-O... water in sewers probably doesn't look that green and lively. Perhaps reduce saturation a bit? Then again, I don't know much about Japanese sewers...


Yeah, I was thinking about just making some nasty, opaque, brownish-gray stuff with little bits of biohazardous material in it, but I guess I just like the green stuff. It's more a stylistic thing than a realism thing. I appreciate CC's praise (thanks!), but I figure that given the limitations of the engine, some artistic license will be a given.

One plot angle I was thinking of is that in the future, extremophile algae may be used as a pretreatment for certain types of hazardous wastewater. Hence, green stuff.
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Kurinn

Post May 22nd '09, 06:38

Kurinn wrote:If anyone is interested in working with me to make some killer urban earth landscapes, please drop me a line.


Surely using a photo and making it tile would be easier. I found this neat little picture on Google images, and I thought it might work well with your project.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...o_Skyline_1.jpg

Using synthetic landscapes sometimes just isn't the same.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post May 22nd '09, 07:09

Shadowbreaker wrote:Surely using a photo and making it tile would be easier. I found this neat little picture on Google images, and I thought it might work well with your project.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...o_Skyline_1.jpg

Using synthetic landscapes sometimes just isn't the same.


Well, if you have the time, why not try it and tell me what you think?

I'll get some other pictures and try it too, and then we can compare to see what works and what doesn't.

Then make some kind of composite.
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Kurinn

Post May 22nd '09, 07:17

I sent it...

It took me about... 5 minutes. For doing detailed things like cities, it's best to use the bandaid tool rather than clone stamp.
Last edited by Shadowbreaker on May 22nd '09, 07:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post May 23rd '09, 01:07

Hey, that's Chicago.
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SynthNinja

Post Jun 3rd '09, 11:38

3d Crap Progresses...

I've been fooling around with Blender, trying to learn all of it's wonders.

So far, I have made a rough concept of what the Assault Rifle is going to look like.



I like Blender. Once you figure out the UI, it really kicks ass. After using it for about 3 hours, I feel like I am getting the hang of things.


Edit:

After another 30 minutes or so...




Edit 2:

After more mucking around, it looks a lot more "assault rifle" like... Added some detail, such as a gas pipe for the action, and some fluting for the heavy air-cooled barrel.

Last edited by Kurinn on Jun 4th '09, 12:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurinn

Post Jun 3rd '09, 22:45

Perhaps this should be the sniper weapon considering the scope, the long barrel and the fact that the magazine is situated behind the handle/trigger.
Meta

Post Jun 4th '09, 09:58

Meta wrote:Perhaps this should be the sniper weapon considering the scope, the long barrel and the fact that the magazine is situated behind the handle/trigger.


You assume there will be a "sniper weapon".

You're also assuming that I will give you any ammo at all.

Maybe I just want to make this sweet-ass assault rifle, dangle it before your eyes, and then make you pistol-whip badguys with a water gun all day long.

Did I ask you for your opinion on firearm aesthetics? Fuck no. You're only here to gawk at and blindly praise my goddamn masterpiece which I created with only 3 hours in Blender having no prior experience with the application whatsoever!




(Just kidding. Yeah, it would make a nice sniper weapon, but I am still working on it, and it will probably end up looking a lot more like a proper "battle rifle" soon. Unfortunately, I don't intend to have a "sniper weapon" per se, simply because the functionality involved with the engine to provide a good reason for it is non-existent. [ie no-headshots], and the player-character's background story would not leave any plausible reason why he should be able to hit jack-shit with a "sniper weapon" at the applicable ranges. It just doesn't fit into the scheme of the gameplay as I currently see it.)

An interesting concept I am trying to put into play in MPDX is "scarcity". You might remember this from Pathways into Darkness, where constant knife-use was a key strategy to conserving the pathetic amounts of ammo available until you got the Cedar box [You will see a lot of commonalities I think]. Don't worry, I do intend to put a kind of "cedar box" into play at some point, at which time the player can go hog wild with blowing shit away. It's just that a lot of the game will rely on non-combat related stuff and exploration, at least until the player either reaches a certain point, or accesses a certain area/phase. It's hard to explain explicitly at this point, but I hope it gives some idea of my intentions. Now that the persistent Lua thing has legs, it's not just a pipe dream to try and accomplish the concepts I am thinking of (ie non-linear play).
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Kurinn

Post Jun 4th '09, 13:00



Here's a big version that I thought looks good. Another change from the previous version.
It's not going to be an "assault rifle" after all, but more of a "battle rifle".
Can you see where I drew inspiration from the MA-75B?
I guess that's why I just couldn't ditch that giant upper heatshield...
...and why I ended up giving it that nice curvature on the top.


Edit:
Went and kept altering it... now it has a reflex sight instead of a scope, and the barrel is a little closer to "assault rifle" than "elephant gun".
Last edited by Kurinn on Jun 4th '09, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurinn

Post Jun 4th '09, 14:02

No grenade launcher?
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ukimalefu

Post Jun 4th '09, 14:37

ukimalefu wrote:No grenade launcher?


No grenade launcher... attached to the rifle.

I am thinking about it.

One thing I wanted to try was to give the player character the ability to throw grenades without taking up a weapons slot.
I did it with Lua, and it looks "okay". However, it doesn't make sense, and even if it did, you can't bounce them suckers off walls, so it doesn't really add a great deal to gameplay.

This is similar to the whole sniper weapon issue in that whatever I do to implement it, if it's not going to really add anything new to the gameplay, and if it doesn't even look that good, is it worth it? You have a sniper zoom with A1, but it doesn't really look like you are scoping an enemy, and even if you use the mouse, movement is jerky.

I am trying to find ways to stretch the engine to new extents, but in the end, if it looks like crap and doesn't really do anything other than act as a gimmick feature, it's not worth the time I could spend elsewhere.

As for a grenade launcher, I didn't place that on the rifle because I intend to give the rifle selective fire. The second trigger is full auto, while the primary trigger is 3 round burst. This is a common feature on real-world equivalents, and as I intend to make ammo hard to get for most of the game, it only makes sense to give people the encouragement they will need to save ammo. Also, a grenade launcher does not "work" in the MPDX world, where shit is all fragile and 21st century an' such. Imagine what a let down it would be to shoot a grenade at a fucking shoji screen, which is made of rice paper, only to see the grenade explode on the screen, and not leave so much as a scorch mark to bear witness to it's short and pitifully unrealistic experience.

What it all comes down to is basing each decision off of what I can and cannot do with A1, and seeing how that might affect the game I am trying to create.

Anyway, if you come across an enemy in MPDX you need a grenade to kill, then you will most likely have a grenade in one form or another by that point.
Last edited by Kurinn on Jun 4th '09, 14:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurinn

Post Jun 4th '09, 15:53

I digg your work Kurinn. do you have any experience in 3D prior?
keep that up! i also like the you are going for a bullpup style rifle (magazine behind the handle basicly) will you have 3D model guns in the game or just sprites of them? if sprites. you can make them as detailed as you can. since they wont increase the loading time. Its if you look for a modern and realistic feel of your weapons, you can always look for pictures and films on the internet to learn how guns work, and why they look so.
also wich modeller do you use?
sorry for so many questions ;)

also if you have some work laying around (3D work that is) i am free at the moment, looking for something to do.

GL HF
What are you, if not seven different shades of stupid?
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CryoS
The Dungeon

Post Jun 4th '09, 17:55

CryoS wrote:I digg your work Kurinn. do you have any experience in 3D prior?

I appreciate it! I have worked with 3D stuff, but that was way back when those blue G3 towers were considered the new-cool-thing for rendering and studio work.

CryoS wrote:will you have 3D model guns in the game or just sprites of them?

Still thinking on that, but leaning heavily towards models. I do want to have models in the game, but it will take a lot of creative work with porting things into low-poly obj's and getting kooky with textures. If that happens, then I think it will be better than using a rotating sprite, which immediately kills any "realism" you can have with A1. I don't intend to have these things (the weapons) scattered around where they can screw up framerates on older machines just arbitrarily, so I think with careful placement and careful design of the in-game models, it's not unattainable. Just it will take a lot more work than I can do by myself in a short time.

CryoS wrote:also wich modeller do you use?
sorry for so many questions ;)

I use Blender, and I love the hell out of it (mostly because it's free).

Don't worry, I like questions. It's better than people just saying "I don't like that", or "Where's my grenade launcher!?"

CryoS wrote:also if you have some work laying around (3D work that is) i am free at the moment, looking for something to do.


I always have work laying around. I have a large mental list of 3d replacement scenery that I never make progress against due to other stuff like textures and scripting eating up most of my time...

Try these perhaps:

-Japanese Ceiling Lamp. Ideally, dimensions within .25 world units in any axe when rendered in game.
If you want to see examples of what I mean, check this page: http://joshinweb.jp/kaden/1448.html

-Toilet (Pretty self explanatory. Closed lid might be best.)

Last edited by Kurinn on Jun 4th '09, 18:01, edited 1 time in total.
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