Mr. Project DX

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Feb 22nd '11, 17:59

Kurinn wrote:The angle isn't off. The building is closer to the point of initial impact than the player, so it just appears that the angle is shallower. If the bullet had traveled the same distance to it's final destination as it had between the player and the initial impact point, it would have traveled the same distance along the z axis. I shot at the building a couple of times and confirmed this.

You could avoid some confusion next time by posting your screenshots in TRUE 3D.

Your best bet to do ricochets is to scan projectiles before the detonate to see if they're about to hit a wall next tick, and if they are, get them moving in the right direction before they detonate. We can't pass the actual projectile into the projectile_detonated trigger, because there may not be one. For instance, when a fusion pistol overloads.
Last edited by treellama on Feb 22nd '11, 18:04, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Feb 22nd '11, 21:19

Treellama wrote:Your best bet to do ricochets is to scan projectiles before the detonate to see if they're about to hit a wall next tick, and if they are, get them moving in the right direction before they detonate. We can't pass the actual projectile into the projectile_detonated trigger, because there may not be one. For instance, when a fusion pistol overloads.


I was worried about that. It's definitely possible to do that, but more troublesome. I suppose I must earn these ricochets if I am to have them.
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Kurinn

Post Feb 22nd '11, 22:38

I made a bouncing projectiles script a year or so ago. When I left off, I was in the process of fixing major bookkeeping problems so it would work for multiple projectiles in the air at once. I'll try to get it working again, and compare it with your script.
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Crater Creator

Post Feb 22nd '11, 23:43

Wall bouncing grenades anyone?
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Dis

Post Feb 23rd '11, 00:53

You guys are acting like you've never played XtremeSquashTournament2k7.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Feb 23rd '11, 01:04

They clearly haven't.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Feb 23rd '11, 03:02

Ares Ex Machina wrote:Although the yellow tip makes it a little less intimidating.

I dunno, the way it draws attention to the muzzle reminds me of something from a Douglas Adams book:

"Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them."

I could make a joke about the color yellow and the spot on your pants when this gun is pointed at you, but that would be crass.
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Hopper

Post Feb 23rd '11, 17:57

Dis wrote:Wall bouncing grenades anyone?


Yes please.
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ukimalefu

Post Feb 24th '11, 04:06

Well, now that I think about it, they'd be pretty much pointless in single player when you've got the ARC thingamabob and MP sucks anyway.
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Dis

Post Apr 10th '11, 01:50

Hmm... 3d stuff...

This looks nice:
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Kurinn

Post Apr 10th '11, 02:04

I can't even tell that's not a real photograph.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Apr 10th '11, 06:23

I guess it looks so good it almost looks fake?
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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VirtualX1
no

Post Apr 10th '11, 18:12

W wrote:I can't even tell that's not a real photograph.


Okay, you win. It's not a 3d scenery object, that's from my vacation photos.
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Kurinn

Post Apr 10th '11, 21:28

I think those arches tend to be curved at least a little, rather than straight. Also, I would consider faking some shadow effects: ambient occlusion on the arch itself, and a slight ground shadow to help it look rooted to the ground.
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Crater Creator

Post Apr 11th '11, 19:48

Crater Creator wrote:I think those arches tend to be curved at least a little, rather than straight. Also, I would consider faking some shadow effects: ambient occlusion on the arch itself, and a slight ground shadow to help it look rooted to the ground.


There are a buttload of different types when it comes to torii. I just like the look of this one. As for your other suggestions, I definitely intend to put that into play at some point. I've got a lot of 3d stuff to model, and I'm still leveling my UV mapping skill, so things will get better.

This was actually sort of a derail from what I was working on for the most part. I had been doing stuff for the convenience store "level" including empty display racks, cash register, etc. The racks are pretty much just vanilla as hell. Of course, that's another place where the shadowing and other details would help. I'm just not so good with UV mapping yet, so things aren't pretty. I figure that if I can at least get the models banged out, I'll be better off.

So much stuff to model... toilets, streetlamps, neon signs...
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Kurinn

Post May 23rd '11, 07:54

More modelling...

[attachment=4797:2.jpg]
Yay, sliding doors are here! Just in time for summer!

[attachment=4798:3.jpg]
Also, slightly better looking puddles with amazing, state of the art 3d decal technology! Only 10 million years behind the curve, but it's here at last!

[attachment=4799:4.jpg]
3d items? Yeah, we've got 'em! Introducing the incredible emergency medical system, a.k.a. "Medkit"! Bet you haven't seen one of those anywhere else before!

[attachment=4800:5.jpg]
Need some fresh air? We've got that too! Convenient travel size for random sewer diving picnic trips!

[attachment=4801:6.jpg]
3d windows accompany the sliding doors, and keep the weather, zombies, robots, pfhor the hell out! (Screen windows sold separately.)

[attachment=4802:7.jpg]
New to Aleph One, what every man wants in his living room, the pause that refreshes while standing! (Still not textured. I'm lazy!)

[attachment=4803:8.jpg]
One of a bajillion new 3d scenery objects for MPDX! (A lot still to be textured. Boooo...)

[attachment=4804:9.jpg]
Look! Even more shit!! Yay! All hail Kurinn, lord of sub-par productivity!


So there you have it. This is what I'm doing with my nights. There are so many scenery objects and items to turn 3d, it's going to take forever! Your grandchildren may someday come across MPDX in its complete form and say "What is this shit? Let's go have seizure-inducing virtual laser sex TRON-style over the neural interwebs while we gland exotic synthetic neurotoxins instead of playing MPDX, because it looks so horrible!"

Unless someone wants to help me with some of this crap. I still need some more weapons modeled, and there's always textures to be created, even though nobody else seems interested in the photo-based crap I like making.
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Kurinn

Post May 27th '11, 01:29

New lamp. It was quite fun to make, and not all that difficult, as far as 3d objects go. Still figuring out the proper MML to get desired effects. Transparency masking works well with opacity type 3 for this, can you see the translucency of the paper? It would be neat if the bloom could kind of pop through the semi-transparent part, but I'll deal. I'm kind of curious about how exactly minimum_glow_intensity works. The description in the documentation seems straightforward enough, but I'm not sure I see what it's doing. I applied a glow map to this just for fun, and tried varying that attribute between 0 and 1, but the effect (if any) is not very noticeable.

Anyway, the lamp:

[attachment=4812:lamps.jpg]

With a little bit of normal_bloom thrown in:

[attachment=4813:lamps2.jpg]

It would be great if I could mask out the bloom somehow, so that it doesn't show up on somewhere like the cord or the outer frame of the lamp. It would look awesome, I think. The only way I've figured I can do this so far is to use a separate glow map, but that's an issue when you have one of these in a dark room for any reason. I guess variable lighting just won't be possible in any room with one of these present.
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Last edited by Kurinn on May 27th '11, 01:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Kurinn

Post May 27th '11, 08:35

this is a too literal an interpretation of 'lightboxes' :(
dude, seriously. dude.
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thermoplyae

Post May 27th '11, 17:09

Kurinn wrote:I'm kind of curious about how exactly minimum_glow_intensity works. The description in the documentation seems straightforward enough, but I'm not sure I see what it's doing. I applied a glow map to this just for fun, and tried varying that attribute between 0 and 1, but the effect (if any) is not very noticeable.

You have to put it in a dark area to see the effect. Without glow, an object can be lit anywhere from 0.0 to 1.0, depending on the polygon and miner's lights; with glow, it'll be lit between minimum_glow_intensity and 1.0. If the ambient lighting is greater than minimum_glow_intensity, you won't see the glow effect.

There is one reason to use a low minimum_glow_intensity, though:

It would be great if I could mask out the bloom somehow, so that it doesn't show up on somewhere like the cord or the outer frame of the lamp.

If you're talking about the way the light from the bulb spills over onto the frame of the lamp in your second shot, that's just how bloom works: it's caused by lens imperfections, so it's a 2D phenomenon and 3D occlusion doesn't enter into it. If you're talking about how to set up the glow mask and how it affects bloom, let me clarify what should be feasible.

You can repurpose the glow mask as a bloom mask instead, to create an object that doesn't necessarily glow but does bloom only in parts. With a minimum_glow_intensity of zero, the object will not light up a dark room, but anything in the glow image/mask will bloom according to glow_bloom_scale and glow_bloom_shift. With normal_bloom_scale and normal_bloom_shift left at zero, only what's in the glow mask will contribute to the bloom effect. The bloom would vary according to the object's ambient lighting, of course.

For this model, I'd expect a glow map with full intensity on the bulb itself, a less strong glow on the papers (to fake the transmission/reflection from the bulb) and a slight glow on the shiny white surfaces (again to fake the reflection). Only the glow surfaces would bloom, and you could use glow_bloom_shift to confine that to the bulb itself. You could turn down minimum_glow_intensity a bit to allow for flickering, but for a light turned all the way off, I suspect swapping the scenery is the only way to get a good-looking result. After all, an inactive fluorescent bulb has a very distinctive look, very different from the way it looks when on. For a completely shaded lamp, a minimum_glow_intensity of zero might be acceptable, although in low-light situations the miner's light and muzzle flashes will cause the light to look like it's on.
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Hopper

Post May 27th '11, 17:22

Incidentally, have you tried loading models with the new type="obj" attribute? Compared to the old type="wave", it should make the orientation in Aleph One match up more naturally with most modeling program defaults. I'd be interested to hear if it helps you or not.
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Hopper

Post May 29th '11, 00:24

Hopper, as always you're a great help when it comes to explanation.

Hopper wrote:You have to put it in a dark area to see the effect. Without glow, an object can be lit anywhere from 0.0 to 1.0, depending on the polygon and miner's lights; with glow, it'll be lit between minimum_glow_intensity and 1.0. If the ambient lighting is greater than minimum_glow_intensity, you won't see the glow effect.


I tested out the lamp in a room with lights at 20, and 15 as well as the previous 0. For some reason, even with just the bare minimum of a normal map, it's still rather bright in those dark rooms. Not sure why. I'm compiling a plugin with the new lamp so other people can play with it, and maybe someone can figure out why this is.

Hopper wrote:There is one reason to use a low minimum_glow_intensity, though:
If you're talking about the way the light from the bulb spills over onto the frame of the lamp in your second shot, that's just how bloom works: it's caused by lens imperfections, so it's a 2D phenomenon and 3D occlusion doesn't enter into it. If you're talking about how to set up the glow mask and how it affects bloom, let me clarify what should be feasible.

You can repurpose the glow mask as a bloom mask instead, to create an object that doesn't necessarily glow but does bloom only in parts. With a minimum_glow_intensity of zero, the object will not light up a dark room, but anything in the glow image/mask will bloom according to glow_bloom_scale and glow_bloom_shift. With normal_bloom_scale and normal_bloom_shift left at zero, only what's in the glow mask will contribute to the bloom effect. The bloom would vary according to the object's ambient lighting, of course.


I did manage to use the glow mask as a bloom mask, since the only parts of the map lit up in the glow map correspond to the faces involved in the fluorescent tube. It looks pretty good. I guess my real problem was as mentioned above, where although the glow mask obviously was limited to the fluorescent tube due to the bloom only occurring there, the whole lamp seemed to disregard the lighting settings of the polygon it resides in. This has caused some confusion for me.

Hopper wrote:For this model, I'd expect a glow map with full intensity on the bulb itself, a less strong glow on the papers (to fake the transmission/reflection from the bulb) and a slight glow on the shiny white surfaces (again to fake the reflection). Only the glow surfaces would bloom, and you could use glow_bloom_shift to confine that to the bulb itself. You could turn down minimum_glow_intensity a bit to allow for flickering, but for a light turned all the way off, I suspect swapping the scenery is the only way to get a good-looking result. After all, an inactive fluorescent bulb has a very distinctive look, very different from the way it looks when on. For a completely shaded lamp, a minimum_glow_intensity of zero might be acceptable, although in low-light situations the miner's light and muzzle flashes will cause the light to look like it's on.


Your suggestions here are great. I think what I'll do is just have a separate scenery assigned to the "dead" sequence for that lamp. That way, I can toggle it with Lua just by swapping out the scenery type. Of course, if it really gets shot, then I'll have to have some way to make sure it can't "turn on", or I can just depend on a healthy suspension of disbelief and hope for the best. Either way, I really appreciate your thinking on this issue.

Now I just have to figure out why even when there's just a normal map, the thing looks bright as ever in a poly with lights at 20.

As a reply to your second post, I just switched over all my settings to type="obj", which broke everything at first, until I realized I had been working around the bugs with type="wave" by flipping my texture maps and rotating every object on the x-axis to compensate. Now that I've cleared that up, everything works pretty smoothly. Not having to flip my texture maps is nice. In Blender, when I export to .obj, by default it rotates the object to match up with the "correct" orientation, so it's one less thing I have to worry about when I'm crafting scenery and items.

Again, thanks!
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Kurinn

Post May 29th '11, 04:50

Here's a plugin version of the lamp. Can't seem to get it to work right, but the object will render, I think. If anyone wants to try it out and tell me what's going on with this, I'd appreciate the help.

[attachment=4821:Kurinn_Lamp.zip]
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Kurinn

Post May 29th '11, 12:53

Textured the ATM... Subtle glowing effects and bump-mapped keypad. Not perfect, but still looks okay, more or less.

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Kurinn

Post May 29th '11, 15:16

Kurinn wrote:Not having to flip my texture maps is nice. In Blender, when I export to .obj, by default it rotates the object to match up with the "correct" orientation, so it's one less thing I have to worry about when I'm crafting scenery and items.

Glen Ditchfield deserves the credit, for the concept and for applying persistence and patience in just the right amounts to get the patches accepted. I helped with testing and review. Glad it can save you some effort!
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Hopper

Post May 29th '11, 22:22

The 3D puddle you posted a while ago looks fanstastic; it's a big step up from the 2D sprite, and I hope people working on scenery replacements for the original games see this.

The light bulb itself is a very nice effect. The translucency of the paper shade is hard to notice. I expect a light like that to actually light up the room when it's on, not glow brightly while the rest of the room stays dark. So making it convincing may be simpler than you're making it out to be.

The detailing on the ATM body is well done. The main body though, the gray and green, need some treatment.

I would give it a slight grain all over, suggesting a hard plastic material. Then I would fake some ambient occlusion, making it darker in the concavities and near the ground. Lastly, I would fake some diffuse highlights. I think when all is said and done, 3D objects in Aleph One will look better with lighting effects baked in, even though they won't be accurate to the specific surroundings, than with no effects at all.
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Crater Creator

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