Marathon Remake

[uescsuperhuman]

I think I might want to do a marathon remake in the source engine. Not just a remake, but more a refinement. A straight port is boring and many aspects of marathon's level design just don't work in modern day level design. It just don't fit. On cool fusion the wierd elevator...it works for a 1994 fps, but these days something like that is just taboo. Also if the enemies pfhor could do sweet moves and stuff with their staves and were fast and could deflect SOME shots, not all. Also, if the Armored Pfhor Sidestepped sorta fast and tried to move in on you, that would be cool. Also if you could walk up to the S'pht and tear that metal ball underneath their robe out to see one of those S'pht Brains . IDK Sounds fun. Not asking for help because the projects that rely on help always fail, but if you want to help let me know.

[acks45]

Someone started to do that but never finished. The people wont release the work they put into it for others to use either which is also a shame.

if you would like to play an update version( I don't know if it's "better" but...) you can find a completed m1a1 total conversion for Unreal Tournament

<edit> theres also a multi-player mod</edit>

[uescsuperhuman]

Someone started to do that but never finished. The people wont release the work they put into it for others to use either which is also a shame.

if you would like to play an update version( I don't know if it's "better" but...) you can find a completed m1a1 total conversion for Unreal Tournament

<edit> theres also a multi-player mod</edit>

wow I was just playing that UT mod .
Yeah, what a shame about Marathon: Source.
The reason I wanted to redo marathon is because although Marathon: Ressurection is a very good improvement, it just doesn't satisfy me enough. I feel like it's missing something. None of the Marathon Remakes I've seen improve upon marathon much but more "port" it to another engine. I want to just totally map marathon in the source engine then just make it make sense in terms of level design and enhance the overall experience. Any suggestions and criticisims are welcome.
BTW Dling Rampancy Right Now.

[acks45]

Oh right. Infested. Sorry Infestedsmith.

[Winter_Wolf]

My only question is, do you have the know-how to pull off such a project?

[uescsuperhuman]

My only question is, do you have the know-how to pull off such a project?

I can map some stuff already. I'm not really trying to be all "WOAH BIG THING GUYS MARATHON REMAKE!!!!!", it's just speculation. I think it might be interesting. I've been trying to get into mapping, so I'd have to start off by simply remapping the game. I don't think I could write enemy A.I. or anything, but if I actually get some headway and at least start to fix some of the maps and import textures I could post a job ad on ModDb. Plus it'd take me a long time to make this anyway. But, I don't no much outside of mapping.

[acks45]

i think you'll find there'll be no interest as long as your not interested in doing a verbatim remake. i know i started doing something like this with a friend with me doing the modelling and the chapter screens and him doing the mapping( source orange box engine) and he has never played through the whole thing. the effect was us both being very interested in the project and working on it for about ... however long it got him to get "done" arrival. It was pretty horrible. i personally think if you wanted to make a remake of marathon your gonna want to have results like this as far as similarity to the original. the e=mcwhat picture also looks a lot like the original.

I personally dont think Cool Fusion would be the same if you took out that elevator in the middle of the first room. Is that the elevator your refering to?

[visciom]

Someone started to do that but never finished. The people wont release the work they put into it for others to use either which is also a shame.

if you would like to play an update version( I don't know if it's "better" but...) you can find a completed m1a1 total conversion for Unreal Tournament

<edit> theres also a multi-player mod</edit>

Most of the work for Marathon: Source was not very good and unpolished, which is one of the reasons why I never released the files.

uescsuperhuman, if you're serious about making Marathon in Source and are fully aware of what you're getting into, I may be able to give some of the work that was at least decent. Not sure if I still have it though. I'll have to check my computer when I get home.

[SynthNinja]

I would like to offer my skills in the area of music composition and digital image editing and design. I'm using a Mac OS Leopard, so if anyone wants to point me to some of the tools that others are using for Marathon projects, I'd be glad to get started.

EDIT: PM me if you're serious about this.

[acks45]

If you could get the 3ds files of the models from rampancy they had pretty good weapon models for most of the weapons.

Zues Class Fusion Pistol
KKV-7 Flechette
MA-75b "old faithful"
WSTE-M5
TOZT-7
SPNKR-XP SSM


<edit>visciom. your maps look awesome. the textures alone would have greatly helped my friends "rendition" of arrival. your maps look impeccable.....
the models arent GREAT but it wouldnt have taken much polishing with a moddeller to figure out. you should start work on this project again. you have a bunch of people here who know some source editing and stuff.....</edit>

[uescsuperhuman]

I think I am probably underestimating what would go into this based on what I've read so far, so I think I need to think on this for a bit. So although I think I need to vastly lower the scope of this project (Just for the Start) and increase it later, with summer coming up and me having nothing to do I think I will seriously consider this.

i think you'll find there'll be no interest as long as your not interested in doing a verbatim remake. i know i started doing something like this with a friend with me doing the modelling and the chapter screens and him doing the mapping( source orange box engine) and he has never played through the whole thing. the effect was us both being very interested in the project and working on it for about ... however long it got him to get "done" arrival. It was pretty horrible. i personally think if you wanted to make a remake of marathon your gonna want to have results like this as far as similarity to the original. the e=mcwhat picture also looks a lot like the original.

I personally dont think Cool Fusion would be the same if you took out that elevator in the middle of the first room. Is that the elevator your refering to?

No, I don't want to do a verbatim remake. That would be so BORING it wouldn't even be funny. In fact, the final scope of this project (if it get's finished) will be to not just remake it by verbatim, but to improve it; throw out the stuff that needs to be. For example; the alien levels were great in atmosphere, but atbsolutely a pain to play through (don't get me started on unpfhorgiven.....*_*) so they either need to be simplified a little bit or completely remapped to be fun. The thing that annoys me about all the Marathon remakes is that they are essentially verbatim to the original. It's cool to see the facelift, but it just doesn't feel as good. I want to make marathon as if it were a modern game. But still, being new to modding, I should keep my scope low at start. I find that so many mods that die have too big of a scope. Not all, but some.

[SynthNinja]

It's too bad Bungie lost what it had when it made Marathon. I'm disappointed in the company. It has become way too corporate. They have quite a number of job openings. Part of me had this idea to suggest to them that they host such a project as a Marathon remake as a way to test the talent of their prospective employees, but the better side of me knows that this will never happen.

[uescsuperhuman]

It's too bad Bungie lost what it had when it made Marathon. I'm disappointed in the company. It has become way too corporate. They have quite a number of job openings. Part of me had this idea to suggest to them that they host such a project as a Marathon remake as a way to test the talent of their prospective employees, but the better side of me knows that this will never happen.

Ya, but it's not bungie it's microsoft. Halo was gonna be so much cooler for mac! They even had cortana similar to durandal, which would've ruled. I like halo, but it will never match up to Marathon (look at my sig).

[SynthNinja]

Yeah, a friend of mine was so excited when Halo was in the works. I was so disappointed when it came out. All my college roommates were like "This rules!" and I was just shaking my head.

Does anyone know what engine was being used to make Metroid Prime: Echoes?

[SynthNinja]

Sorry for the double-post, but I had another thought. One of the reason Metroid came to mind is that although many of the core elements of the game stayed the same, it went from being an eight-bit side-scroller to an incredibly well-done FPS game. Some of the things in the plot changed, like the fact that you don't face a Mother Brain and instead you jump from the light world to the dark world of the planet Aether. I was seriously blown away by that game.

In my opinion, what the new remake of Marathon needs is an updated plot, new characters, new enemies to face (and an upgrade to the AI's), new weapons (of course), some animated alien wildlife, animated landscapes, and a new interface. It goes without saying that the graphics and scenery would be updated. And for what it's worth, the suit should have some kind of special attack/ability.

There is so much room for creativity here, if people are willing to put the time in. Using a more sophisticated engine and building the game from scratch would be easier than rewriting a new engine, in my opinion. There are plenty of mapmakers and graphics artists here, but it seems we are seriously lacking programmers.


EDIT: Just wanted to add that I also think the original pfhor/human politics of the Trilogy are due for an update of some kind- which is sort of what I was trying to say by 'new plot.'

[acks45]

. I want to make marathon as if it were a modern game. But still, being new to modding, I should keep my scope low at start. I find that so many mods that die have too big of a scope. Not all, but some.

Yes god damnit. Where are the bridges and balconies?
<edit> so basically you want to make a whole new game. why don't you just PLAY a new game? or if you wanted to to play a similar game that isn't the same, but feels like marathon.... then people normally just play halo. I personally play marathon because of its plot and wouldnt dream of changing a thing in it. theres nothing we could write that would be better than the original plot for the original levels, and if you're going to throw both of those out then there isnt much reason for me to play your version of "halo-thon". that being said I look forward to seeing if you come up with anything interesting.</edit>

<edit2>@ synth ninja. don't apologize for double posting. use the edit button:

[SynthNinja]

Yes god damnit. Where are the bridges and balconies?

<edit>@ synth ninja:

Here-here!

[WailofSuicide]

i think you'll find there'll be no interest as long as your not interested in doing a verbatim remake.

Agreed.

Not to toot my own horn, but I think I did a pretty good job of updating the look of the levels I did for M:R while remaining faithful to the floorplan. But it's quite correct to look at Marathon's level design and say that floorplans could use updating if you really wanted to a modernized remake.


But then, if you were doing a modernized remake, a lot of things would change.

1. You can only carry 2 weapons and maybe 2 grenades of some kind.
2. You could pick up weapons from every enemy type. Pfhor Staff to level 1, please.
3. Health would regenerate over time as long as you're not taking damage.

Among other things. I think that could be fun, too, by the way, but I don't think you'd ever reach a critical mass of Marathon fans that way. You're better off presenting it as something entirely new.


Edit:

Regarding "Marathon has the most perfect plot ever, etc" sentiments. Can't say I really agree with that. Gameplay and story wise there are some things that just don't hold up that well anymore. I think it could be really and potentially fruitful to try and fill in some of the gaps in the Marathon storyline. e.g. Make a scenario on Tau Ceti and cover things from that angle. You could do something Marathon-esque without stepping on toes, plus a planetary environment could have some of the things you mentioned like neutral native life forms, bigger terrain-based levels, and so on. I think you may also see how implausible it is to make a level-by-level remake of Marathon in a modern engine with modern graphics and floorplans. It's just an insane amount of work that can only be done by a team of more-dedicated-than-employees volunteers.

[SynthNinja]

I see your point, Ack. No, I don't want to make a new game, I want the Marathon universe to evolve. In my opinion, Halo is nothing but a watered-down version of Marathon. Yes, it has some fun vehicles to ride in, but that's about it.

Giving more thought to it, the Pfhor really are a stupid race, hell-bent on enforcing their stupidity in all areas of the galaxy. Hence the whole Tycho thing. Originally I was thinking that some new evil could rear its ugly head, forcing a cooperation between the Pfhor and Human empires. However, I see now that that could never, ever happen due to the Pfhor's stupidity.

The Sph't, on the other hand, could have a chance to evolve in the years that pass bewteen the Trilogy and this remake.

A fourth race could certainly spice things up a bit.

Okay, for starters, here is a suggestion for the new plot: Perhaps a new race comes along to aid the Pfhor, making them a more formidable enemy than ever- an antithesis to the Sph't. Highly intelligent AND highly evil, developing considerably better technology for the Pfhor. The Pfhor enemies you face will be bigger (as in even the fighters are taller than you). Meaner. And more effective at killing stuff. And, once you deal with the Pfhor, you must then defeat this new enemy.

There are many details to work out. For example, why is this new race helping the Pfhor? What are they getting out of it? Is this new race really a new race, or a race defeated long ago by humanity, hoping to wrought its vengeance through the Pfhor?

[Major Pedro]

Why has this been done about a million times but never really worked? Infested, Resurrection etc are incredibly awesome but they never ended up catching on as a total remake.

@ Wail- Yeah I agree, you need to make it a totally new game, not another scenario...

Also the source engine is very complex and detailed, so you're looking at disturbingly epic amounts of work, unless you can rip off the models and stuff from half-life 2, or conscript an army of modelers off the pfhorums, so good luck...

Also if you are serious about this, and you actually start, I would love to help. Email me. major.pedro@gmail.com.

[SynthNinja]

What it comes down to is we need better tools. Maybe making plugins for the Quake engine, for example, would be a good idea, something that allows for fast cut-and-paste style work, and then figure out the details later. The project could take a really long time. I have no issue with that. Maybe a team making the maps, and then another team that fills in the map details might work better. Or maybe break the project down into phases, like first lay the groundwork for the maps- the architecture. Then in another phase, fill in the textures and details. And then in another phase, lighting, sounds, etc. Yeah, I realize it's a lot of work, but it's a project I am willing to take part in. I've got sophisticated software to write music, and I'm willing to work with whatever tools are necessary.

[Major Pedro]

What it comes down to is we need better tools. Maybe making plugins for the Quake engine, for example, would be a good idea, something that allows for fast cut-and-paste style work, and then figure out the details later. The project could take a really long time. I have no issue with that. Maybe a team making the maps, and then another team that fills in the map details might work better. Or maybe break the project down into phases, like first lay the groundwork for the maps- the architecture. Then in another phase, fill in the textures and details. And then in another phase, lighting, sounds, etc. Yeah, I realize it's a lot of work, but it's a project I am willing to take part in. I've got sophisticated software to write music, and I'm willing to work with whatever tools are necessary.

As I said, just mod Half-Life 2, it's in the Source engine, don't use Quake... Start by changing the models.

[acks45]

2: grab viscioms textures from m:source.
3: map. a lot.

I personally loved the layout of your work in marathon resuraction.it held on to the nostalgia of marathon but made it look really good. you could probably reduce the amount of work involved by asking the people who worked on all these other mods if they would like to help... umm .... say... by starting a thread somewhere....


My main concern is losing that nostalgia. but then again i havent beaten rubicon or eternal, which people tell me are great.

also a fourth race you dont hear much about because they evolved into the f'lickta(and subsequently the s'pht?) are the N'ar. you could probably right an interesting story about the Pfhor domination of the S'pht that doesnt even involve the human race. but you would after all want to just get started with things and worry about stuff later. my advice is first to grab as much unused( or at least not especially used) work in models and textures that people have made for other full 3d mods if the intellectual owners are willing to chip them.

[Major Pedro]

small wall of text

I haven't beaten Eternal either- It has all these switch puzzles, it takes too long. Rubicon was very good though.

Anyways. Let's get this show on the road. UESCsuperhuman could start by writing the story. Whoever else is volunteering can go out and steal shit now. Once we have an idea for the scenario we can start maps and models.

So get writing

[SynthNinja]

I have beaten every scenario made so far: Rubicon, Eternal, the Trilogy, Red, Evil, Devil in a Blue Dress, and Excalibur. Well.... there were one or two others I couldn't get to work on my computer.


I will contribute to the plot, but I don't want to steal this project out from under superhuman. The way I see it, we are a team, and a team needs direction. He should see that he has plenty of support by now. If he doesn't take the lead, then one of us will have to step up. I'm willing to make maps, provided I can get ahold of the appropriate software. We'll worry about that later.

I can do the music once the visuals are done- I can even do sound effects.

EDIT: By the way, Wikipedia is great for finding information on where to go to get the software. I wonder if there is a way to purchase it under a group-user license.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

This site looks good. http://www.devmaster.net/engines/