Marathon 1 Redux

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

After trying 0.0.8-alpha, should difficulty be adjusted so:

Monsters have more Vitality (makes Normal consistent at TC+ expense)
2
40%
Monsters fire longer bursts (makes Normal consistent at TC+ expense)
2
40%
Promote all the minors (makes TC consistent at the expense of variety)
0
No votes
Remove the extra monsters (makes TC consistent at Normal's expense)
1
20%
Restore "Easy" difficulty
0
No votes
I'm a wuss. Give back "Kindergarten"
0
No votes
Other (explain)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 5

Re: Marathon 1 Redux

Post Jan 30th '18, 23:34

Way back when I made a landscape texture for the Tau Ceti colony based partly on the landscape texture used in the Marathon Alpha, which I intended to use for the first of the Coop Levels that never got made and were planned for Eternal X Omega. If you'd like to use it for your colony-side levels, you can. It's packaged in Eternal already and here it is attached too.

It's not perfect, and if you want to fiddle with it some more I can send you the PSD too.

Day3-cetiscape.jpg
User avatar

Pfhorrest
California

Post Jan 31st '18, 10:03

General-RADIX wrote:I'd like to volunteer for terminal-writing duty once you have an outline for the new stuff. (And still leaving art offers open in case no one else steps up)


Right, I really need to start storyboarding. Got any ideas for extra terminals on G4 Sunbathing? What with it being a vacuum level it's just begging for lengthy things to read, I'm planning on one terminal with
Spoiler:
maintenance logs posted by a Marathon Airlock Technician who meets an untimely end as she is either boiled because Durandal screwed up the airlocks, or captured by the Pfhor, or possibly saved from the former by the latter.


Flowers wrote:Is there any specific criteria you're looking for when it comes to the colony levels?


I'll have to get back to you on that. Once I'm done with G4, which I wanted to have done before I released anything at all, I'm going to start making those plans. But, we know that the colony is about what, seven years old? Not long enough for anything grandiose to be built, but long enough that the first things laid down may be run down already.
Spoiler:
There will be missions centred around restoring communications and giving Tycho access to the damaged colony network so that he can further develop his rampa- err, better coordinate the situation, and ones about rescuing humans.


HelviusRufus wrote:May be just something wrong with my set-up, but 004 freezes my whole computer (Windows 10 and 7, AO 20150620 and 20150907) after a few minutes, you can't even switch to another session. Eventually the AlephOne is not responding message window comes up and control is regained.
BGN works fine, I really like it (and that is the jugg I was talking about earlier, the one you can see from the final room).
The freezing occurs whether you scratch start or enter G4 from BGN.
Also if you go immediately to the arena after a scratch start, all these escape pods are blocking the way. Once, before it froze, I went back up by the lift, then back down again and they had changed to passable barrels or tubes.
I unzip into a folder and then put an AO in that folder and run it from there.


Are you sure they are changing, or are you visiting different "arenas?" Mare Crisium has escape pods (Mare Crisium is Latin for Sea of Crises, and escape pods are used in a crisis...), the Dead Sea has barrels, Death Valley has glass containers, and Icarus Crater has cylinders; these are all in areas where there used to just be a wall, they aren't really blocking your way to anything aside from cover.

Looks like you don't have 3D models turned on, either. Pity that, they really make this level especially look a lot better. I wish we could have both them and bloom at the same time. But, I also wish we could have landscape glow images, light sources, occlusion bump mapping, and bridges (in that order) and I don't expect any of those ever happening, either.

I'll have to have a go at getting stable to compile, and maybe that will help me help you folks who use older Aleph One versions. I remember being unable to compile stable... ah, because of the FFMPEG bug, and I don't have movies in M1R so I hopefully I don't need FFMPEG.

Pfhorrest wrote:Way back when I made a landscape texture for the Tau Ceti colony based partly on the landscape texture used in the Marathon Alpha, which I intended to use for the first of the Coop Levels that never got made and were planned for Eternal X Omega. If you'd like to use it for your colony-side levels, you can. It's packaged in Eternal already and here it is attached too.

It's not perfect, and if you want to fiddle with it some more I can send you the PSD too.


Thank you, that looks great! Yes, I'd love to take a look at the PSD, you have my e-mail address or however works. There are a few things I'd like to do to it... Incidentally, here are some Celestia shots from the colony. Nothing pretty, but my inner astronomy geek loves that the other planets are all visible (except for Tau Ceti b which is too close to Tau Ceti to be distinguishable)
marathon from tau ceti4.png

marathon from tau ceti2.png
Last edited by ravenshining on Jan 31st '18, 18:44, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar

ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Jan 31st '18, 10:18

ravenshining wrote:
Flowers wrote:Is there any specific criteria you're looking for when it comes to the colony levels?


I'll have to get back to you on that. Once I'm done with G4, which I wanted to have done before I released anything at all, I'm going to start making those plans. But, we know that the colony is about what, seven years old? Not long enough for anything grandiose to be built, but long enough that the first things laid down may be run down already. There will be missions centred around restoring communications and giving Tycho access to the damaged colony network so that he can further develop his rampa- err, better coordinate the situation, and ones about rescuing humans.

I have some incomplete levels I made last autumn sitting on my computer I think would work well. I'll try to polish them up soon™ (probably within the next week or two) and send them your way. If you like what you see, you can have them. If you don't like them or can't use them, nothing lost.
User avatar

Flowers

Post Jan 31st '18, 10:33

Flowers wrote:I have some incomplete levels I made last autumn sitting on my computer I think would work well. I'll try to polish them up soon™ (probably within the next week or two) and send them your way. If you like what you see, you can have them. If you don't like them or can't use them, nothing lost.


Sounds good! Oh, yeah, and any map built with either the Jjarro set or M1A1 will translate to the current M1R with minimal to no texture issues. Scenery issues if M1A1, but not Jjarro.

ravenshining wrote:Incidentally, here are some Celestia shots from the colony. Nothing pretty, but my inner astronomy geek loves that the other planets are all visible (except for Tau Ceti b which is too close to Tau Ceti to be distinguishable)


Oh, crap, I just realised that the Marathon quite visibly moves across the sky, even at the distant orbit I've set - at the very close orbit in Pfhorrest's lanscape it would be screaming across. An animated landscape might be a bit taxing, but hmm what if I made the Marathon a monster? Can I script a monster to fly a given path?
User avatar

ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Jan 31st '18, 15:24

ravenshining wrote:Right, I really need to start storyboarding. Got any ideas for extra terminals on G4 Sunbathing? What with it being a vacuum level it's just begging for lengthy things to read, I'm planning on one terminal with maintenance logs posted by a Marathon Airlock Technician who meets an untimely end as she is either boiled because Durandal screwed up the airlocks, or captured by the Pfhor, or possibly saved from the former by the latter.


Hm...perhaps that technician got locked in a pressurized room before the SO arrived, and the SO has to twist Durandal's arm to get him to warp her somewhere safer. (The idea being that, while she might be safe from the Pfhor here, sooner or later that room's going to run out of oxygen) Ideally you'd hear from her again in a much later level, to show the player that Durandal didn't pull a fast one.

I was busy with art stuff yesterday, so I'll play through v0.0.4 and see if anything else comes to mind.

Also got several ideas related to future plot stuff, but I might save those for PMs again unless you're fine with me discussing 'em here.
welcome to the scene of the crash
User avatar

General-RADIX

Post Jan 31st '18, 15:55

ravenshining wrote:Oh, crap, I just realised that the Marathon quite visibly moves across the sky, even at the distant orbit I've set - at the very close orbit in Pfhorrest's lanscape it would be screaming across. An animated landscape might be a bit taxing, but hmm what if I made the Marathon a monster? Can I script a monster to fly a given path?

Use a scenery object. You can see what I did with Unofficial Spookymap in Official Unofficialmaps. The ship is spinning in space and you can see the earth fly past the windows. You could probably do something less extreme.
User avatar

Wrkncacnter

Post Jan 31st '18, 18:43

General-RADIX wrote:Hm...perhaps that technician got locked in a pressurized room before the SO arrived, and the SO has to twist Durandal's arm to get him to warp her somewhere safer. (The idea being that, while she might be safe from the Pfhor here, sooner or later that room's going to run out of oxygen) Ideally you'd hear from her again in a much later level, to show the player that Durandal didn't pull a fast one.

Also got several ideas related to future plot stuff, but I might save those for PMs again unless you're fine with me discussing 'em here.


Except, in the normal storyline, it's not until immediately after this level that you're working with Durandal, and I want to preserve that sudden shift. That, and it's rather rare for the SO to actually have any say in what goes on, and exceptions beyond success or failure I think are best suited to appropriately dramatic moments (such as where you plant the virus in Rubicon). The MAT being boiled or captured before your arrival better suits the level's macabre and futile theme.

Hm, I ought to put some spoiler tags around here... PM away.
User avatar

ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 3rd '18, 03:37

I noticed the trooper gun is offset more to the right in your scenario, so I went ahead and re-did the frames to account for the new angle. they've the same dimensions as the originals, so you don't need to change the patch file.

If you need other stuff rendered I'd be glad to pitch in.
Attachments
png 45-46.zip
(935.73 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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General Tacticus

Post Feb 3rd '18, 23:27

Thank you! It's a small touch but it makes a difference, I like now you now see the nose to the left of your hand. I offset the trooper gun and alien weapon because that's how you see them carried, wrapped around the right arm.

The final frame of the staff weapon is a bit different. I have the Marine raise the staff to the right, then swipe to the left as the Pfhor fighters do, whereas the Eternal/Evil Marine just rotates the staff clockwise. It would be a nice touch to have the trailing static for that frame curve like so:

staffswish.png
staffswish.png (20.77 KiB) Viewed 982 times


Do you have the whole trooper gun done as a 3D model? It'd be sweet to have a reloading animation, even if it's just one or two frames of the weapon being raised in the air like the AR has. Otherwise I'll just nix the reloading animation and have the weapon lower like the flamethrower and missile launcher.

3D items could be fun if you have models for them, and that would benefit the original game as well (assuming A1 can handle them)

================================

I probably won't have an update this weekend, as I'm helping Pfhorest out with some lighting changes for Eternal 1.2 at the moment.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 3rd '18, 23:41

I also kind of like the idea of the Trooper rifle behind held to the side, so if Tacticus is modifying your weapons that way, it'd be awesome if he could modify the Eternal ones as well.

And ditto reloading animations. If there were reloading animations for everything, that would be awesome.

Also I don't recall (and can't check right now) if there are weapon (and ammo) on-ground sprites too? If we could have those (if we don't already) that would be awesome too. :-)
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Feb 4th '18, 00:21

There are 2D weapon sprites in the HD Eternal weapons pack, but only an ammo sprite for the WMC/blades. Tacticus's M1 pack has both weapons and ammo.

We use different ammo for our respective trooper guns; while yours has separate bullets and grenades, mine has just a monolithic "magazine" that contains both. As a workaround for the limited number of items, I imagine the Pfhor have a convenient and easy-enough-for-primates-to-figure-out way to load both at once, but as of M1 the Marine doesn't know how to load only one side at a time yet and so wastes ammo dropping half-filled magazines when reloading. As such, I use this sprite for the alien magazine:

trooperammo.png
trooperammo.png (1.19 KiB) Viewed 972 times


If you replace the appropriate png's from Tacticus's HD Eternal Weapons with the ones he posted above, and set in your physics the trooper gun's "Idle width" to 0.625, that will place the gun on the right for you.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 4th '18, 02:55

Ok, here's a reload sequence for the trooper rifle + a staff trail effect (I took one from eternal and distorted it to match the shape, will need recoloring). I also included low-rez, color palleted versions of each for use in the shape file.

Since the zip file is over 2 mb (the max attachment size, apparently) here's a link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-rp_FzyHS9wCYrNWi-LY1izb0s0Z-pV5/view?usp=sharing


On the subject of 3d Items:
Although the weapons are fully modeled, they aren't really usable as in-game assets.
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General Tacticus

Post Feb 4th '18, 03:00

Concerning the drop of the Pfhor Rifle, I actually do like the idea of it dropping only if you kill a high ranking Pfhor trooper, that way you're not swimming in Pfhor Rifles. However, if there were to be a new set of troopers, I think it'd be important to make them considerably more difficult to deal with, and I'm not sure how you could easily accomplish do this without just buffing some numbers.
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Flowers

Post Feb 4th '18, 06:24

General Tacticus wrote:Ok, here's a reload sequence for the trooper rifle + a staff trail effect (I took one from eternal and distorted it to match the shape, will need recoloring). I also included low-rez, color palleted versions of each for use in the shape file.


Whoa, that is seriously awesome (and fast) work! Now you really get to see the shape of the rifle!

Flowers wrote:Concerning the drop of the Pfhor Rifle, I actually do like the idea of it dropping only if you kill a high ranking Pfhor trooper, that way you're not swimming in Pfhor Rifles. However, if there were to be a new set of troopers, I think it'd be important to make them considerably more difficult to deal with, and I'm not sure how you could easily accomplish do this without just buffing some numbers.


Apart from buffing speed, vitality, or accuracy, the grenades could be made homing. That would fit in with the armour colour change: green/purple fighters are melee, while brown/blue fighters are snipers; similarly green/purple troopers give suppressing fire, while orange/blue troopers have tracking.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 5th '18, 17:09

I haven't really payed much attention to the Pfhorums lately so I just skimmed this thread right now.

I can't help with levels, still have a level for someone else's mod and a level for my own mod (that takes place on Tau Ceti) on the backlog, but I can help with any story design or terminal writing. That kind of stuff is usually pretty easy for me and I can get it out pretty quick.
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philtron

Post Feb 6th '18, 02:03

So, quick question... what do you think the shock staff ammo should look like? I'm in the process of redoing the staff frames with the proper color pallet, a better trail, and an animation more in line with your description.

Also if you have any ideas for improving the staff model, I'd like to hear them.
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General Tacticus

Post Feb 6th '18, 02:47

I've thought that possible the fat base at the opposite end of the staff (opposite the crystal head) might be some kind of battery pack. If not that, then possibly the crystal head itself, or else some kind of cylindrical battery that goes into the shaft (maybe under the head, like you screw off the head of a maglite to reload the batteries?)
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Feb 6th '18, 03:03

General Tacticus wrote:So, quick question... what do you think the shock staff ammo should look like? I'm in the process of redoing the staff frames with the proper color pallet, a better trail, and an animation more in line with your description.

Also if you have any ideas for improving the staff model, I'd like to hear them.


I've been reusing the broken staff sprite from the M2 water collection as the ammo.

brokenstaff.png
brokenstaff.png (1.35 KiB) Viewed 906 times


Whereas Eternal re-uses the whole staff for both weapon and ammo

staffeternal.png
staffeternal.png (970 Bytes) Viewed 906 times


which has slightly different colours and orientation from mine:

staffredux.png
staffredux.png (905 Bytes) Viewed 906 times


As for improvements to the staff model, I would like to see the nodes at the base of the crystal, preferably in grey but orange or blue would work, too. Your design is cool and all, but it's a bit odd seeing it look so different from the ones the fighters carry. Also, as you can see in-game the Marine holds the staff much closer to the crystal in mine than Eternal's- I used the Pfhor fighter sprite for reference on hand position. Less important is the twisty bit on the end, you don't see it in hand only on the ground but it's a nice touch.

Pfhorrest wrote:I've thought that possible the fat base at the opposite end of the staff (opposite the crystal head) might be some kind of battery pack. If not that, then possibly the crystal head itself, or else some kind of cylindrical battery that goes into the shaft (maybe under the head, like you screw off the head of a maglite to reload the batteries?)


I like the twisty end of the staff as ammo better than the crystal, since there are different coloured crystals for the different classes of fighter.

philtron wrote:I can't help with levels, still have a level for someone else's mod and a level for my own mod (that takes place on Tau Ceti) on the backlog, but I can help with any story design or terminal writing. That kind of stuff is usually pretty easy for me and I can get it out pretty quick.


There's a neighbouring thread where story discussion is taking place, so far we are looking at adding a line of missions where
Spoiler:
Tycho learns the secret of jump-pad-less teleportation and sends the marine down to the colony, then restoring communications between the colony and Marathon, and then giving Tycho access to the colony network thereby facilitating his Rampancy, followed by possibly uncovering some Jjaro ruins, computers, or even an AI,
and finally some basic saving of colonists and slaughtering of Pfhor.

That's all long-term stuff at the moment. In the immediate term, as is discussed earlier I have plenty of space for adding terminals to G4 Sunbathing - I love a good long read in hard vacuum - one of which is to be a transcript of an audio log of a
Spoiler:
Marathon Airlock Technician who is nearly killed by Durandal messing with airlocks before she is captured by the Pfhor.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 7th '18, 20:47

Seeing this thread made my day. I'm very excited about this. I know I shouldn't but I'm going to download a preview this right now. I wish I could help (I'm a programmer), but I barely get time to eat as it is and trying to help would probably end up badly for everyone involved.

EDIT: Looking very nice. I realized Marathon's FOV offends my modern gamer sensibilities though.
Johnman

Post Feb 10th '18, 06:15

Glad to hear it, Johnman! Sorry I didn't reply earlier, it's been a crazy week dealing with a new housemate.

Regarding the trooper, since we've got votes for all three options, I'm thinking of doing a mix - having purple troopers on Couch Fishing drop their guns (so you only get them early if you're playing Major Damage or Total Carnage), having one as an item in Death Valley on G4 along with other alien treats guarded by a jugg, and then having beefed-up Orange/Blue troopers sprinkled in on later levels where they may feel appropriate. Finally, I'm thinking of having a lone trooper who can drop it's gun on levels like Cool Fusion - you want to vidmaster one of those levels, you'll have to take down a trooper, no cheesy M1A1 pistol bullet switches for you!

Having multiple ways the player can acquire the gun may help avert frustration. For example, let's say I only set the troopers on Couch Fishing to drop their guns, but the player decides to toast them with the flamethrower - the player would then spend the entire game picking up ammo for a weapon they cannot acquire.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 11th '18, 00:33

I've finished the new frames for the shock staff, complete with grey colored knobbly bits under the crystal, adjusted hand position, and a new trailing effect.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ecV2c5HVAS85vC0N_kG45YK92ND760E2
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General Tacticus

Post Feb 11th '18, 03:26

Nice work! Love the little metal plates.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 14th '18, 09:55

Apologies for the lack of updates lately. Apart from the helping out on Eternal, I've been working to incorporate the new sprites Tacticus kindly provided, and would up redoing the whole weapons-in-hand collection in the hopes it might solve a flickering issue I have.

Next, I started looking into HUD design. Personally I dislike the XBLA style HUD as it lacks an inventory panel, and after giving up on figuring out how to alter that I looked into altering the default HUD, and then decided I'm in completely over my head when it comes to Lua.

Please excuse me while I have a moment with this Pfhor. Despite the bodies of it's comrades cooling on the floor behind it, it didn't seem to want to attack me, and was kind enough to pose for this photo.
BiggerGunsNearby_0049.jpg
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Feb 16th '18, 21:55

Hey, as a 2-D artist, I'd be down for contributing Chapter Screen illustrations! If you want to give me some specs: size, format, etc, I can start drawing some stuff out, assuming they'll be based on the original chapter screens.

I do work freelance full time, but I'd be more than happy to volunteer some art in my free time.
T-Minus 15.193792102158E+9 years until the universe closes!
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Nathan92
MI

Post Feb 16th '18, 23:32

that would be a good choice! Nathan is known to have done a whole bunch of good M1 inspired art...in case you haven't seen it (Hi Nathan) [MUp]
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Bobwithkeycard
AMS-Tower

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