Eternal X 1.2

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Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Apr 5th '19, 02:46

ravenshining wrote:
halosammy wrote:You can do all five of them without the chip.


Are you sure you can complete the level without the chip - not just reach the end, but read the terminal and be sent back in time? I just tested it, and was unable to activate the terminal without using the chip, as it should be.

Of course, I see now that it would have been better to disable the catwalk switch rather than the terminal, since switches make a noise when there's a problem with them and terminals don't.

I feel like a dummy. I just tested to see if I could flip the catwalk switch and reach the catwalk before going to the next level. My bad for misleading you.
halosammy

Post Apr 5th '19, 03:59

The Jjaro stable time loop goes like this, starting from the "present" of the end Infinity:

-Marcus is pulled out of time by Hathor into the failed future where Eternal begins

-Marcus and Hathor are sent back in time ostensibly to fix that

-Hathor returns in a Jjaro dreadnaught (from the failed timeline of chapter 4) and attempts to destroy humanity

-Humanity use K'lia's cybernetic junction to flee millions of years into past to escape Hathor

-That humanity in the distant past continue to advance, beginning to merge with their technology, becoming "phase 1" Jjaro.

-They accidentally awaken the W'rkncacnter that crashes into Earth 65mya, and deploy the Sphere to defeat it and to preserve themselves from the Sphere's weapon.

-Hathor and then Marcus arrive from the future (in chapter 5) and, respectively, compromise the Sphere's preservative function, and yet still deploy its weapon, wiping out the biological humans/Jjaro, but leaving their cybernetic successors, the "phase 2" Jjaro.

-Their cybernetic survivors continue to advance, possibly joining with other cybernetic civilizations that may have existed across the history of the galaxy, and uplifting newly-evolved biological species like the Nakh and S'pht.

-That cybernetic civilization eventually invents the Cybernetic Junction, enabling manipulation of and eventually escape from space and time, becoming "phase 3" Jjaro.

-Those ascended beings, together with other beings who have escaped from space and time, generally either go mad with power trying endlessly to warp history to their own liking or stop others from warping it against their liking, leading to cataclysmic battles across the early universe between what would come to be called W'rkncacnter; or else dedicate themselves to preserving history exactly as it happened, including making it happen as necessary, becoming the Jjaro who orchestrated this entire series of events.


Durandal and Marcus post-Eternal are setting out to defy the latter without becoming the former, by returning to the point where it all went askew -- when Marcus was taken out of time -- and continuing from there, over and over again as necessary. The Rubicon timelines fit nicely as some of those possible attempts, possibly none of them the final attempt. I have my thoughts on how I'd like to see the final attempt go, if I could have made a sequel, which I outlined in my postmortem thing upthread, but that wouldn't really change how Eternal itself ends, and it does still incorporate themes from Rubicon, namely the Nakh bioweapon which could plausibly be inferred to be the origin of the Achilles virus.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Apr 5th '19, 04:08

Thank you. I understand perfectly now.
halosammy

Post Apr 6th '19, 07:18

If anyone's interested, I've updated the Development page with the dates of all the previous releases, so you can kinda see a schedule of when Eternal vWhatever was developed.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Apr 6th '19, 07:59

Pfhorrest wrote:If anyone's interested, I've updated the Development page with the dates of all the previous releases, so you can kinda see a schedule of when Eternal vWhatever was developed.

Cool. By the way, did you guys find the memory leak in the textures you were looking for?
halosammy

Post Apr 10th '19, 08:08

Pfhorrest wrote:
raptor200221 wrote:Is Chronicles a type of sequel to Eternal? I thought Aaron got inspiration from it.

aaron was working on marathon chronicles ages ago, i don't think it originally took after eternal, but i gather he's trying to incorporate elements from all major scenarios into it including eternal he can speak more for himself probably

Sorry for slowpoke response. Have been busy with RL, as people in the Discord know.

Pfhorrest is correct. Chronicles was not originally a sequel to Eternal, as it has been in development off and on since 1997, and Eternal was not released in any form until 2004. However, given that Chronicles’ story has been constantly changing as I’ve developed new levels, it’s incorporated aspects of various fan scenarios with the intention of being a sort of fanon welding project. In particular, it’s intended to be a direct sequel to both Eternal and Rubicon, though there are bits and pieces of several other scenarios in there as well.

However, a lot of the terminals still aren’t even written yet, so not all of this will be obvious to players unless they read the documentation included with the game. There’s at least one reference to Hathor in the dream terminals, but a lot of the more significant planned connections are still forthcoming. The most obvious connections are probably to Tempus Irae and Rubicon (plus maybe Phoenix – I did rip off one of its levels pretty shamelessly – and Evil).

The next month or two are going to remain pretty hectic for me in RL but I do hope to be able to contribute a bunch of stuff for 1.3 in the second half of the year. I’m glad to see 1.2 out, though I honestly haven’t even gotten around to opening it yet. Looking forward to seeing the changes I haven’t gotten around to playing myself yet.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Apr 15th '19, 00:13

Unfortunately, my old Windows 7 desktop seems to have ceased to function properly. I’ve now got a new Windows 10 system, and I’ve been in the process of reinstalling files. As a result, I’ve messed around with Eternal on the Windows version of Aleph One.

As far as I can ascertain, the game runs fine on 1.2.1 with all the options on if you reduce the texture quality to “Higher”. Anything above that and it will crash. I’m honestly expecting this to become such a frequent question that perhaps there should be a brief document included with the game indicating this. The game itself doesn’t need to be modified, but it’s probably worth addressing somewhere. I see there’s already a question on Reddit about this, but I don’t have an account on the site and for various reasons don’t really care to register one.

The other possibility is running the Aleph One beta, of course. I don’t know if the performance stutter issue ever got solved for that, though. I might test that now.

ETA: 1.3b3 appears to experience the same crash issues. 1.3b2 will load with texture quality set to “Highest”; however, at least “Where Giants Have Fallen” will crash almost immediately after loading. That’s strange.

…“We Met Once in the Garden” loads in 1.3b2 using “Highest” texture quality, but the water texture is 3/4 blank, resulting in a lot of smearing.
Last edited by The Man on Apr 15th '19, 00:28, edited 2 times in total.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Apr 15th '19, 00:22

Could a possible fix for a future version of Aleph One be to detect when that Windows 32-bit process memory limit is being approached and automatically reduce texture quality settings?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Apr 15th '19, 00:29

Pfhorrest wrote:Could a possible fix for a future version of Aleph One be to detect when that Windows 32-bit process memory limit is being approached and automatically reduce texture quality settings?

I’m not sure if that really solves the problem since stable versions of Aleph One seem to work fine. Obviously something with Aleph One has a reduced tolerance for the settings.
halosammy

Post Apr 15th '19, 00:34

No, this is truly a pathological case, but you could set the default prefs lower or optimize your texture usage.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Apr 15th '19, 00:35

treellama wrote:No, this is truly a pathological case, but you could set the default prefs lower or optimize your texture usage.

That’s what I’m doing now. I wish I didn’t have to.
halosammy

Post Apr 15th '19, 01:29

…oh, one other thing.

Pfhorrest wrote:I have my thoughts on how I'd like to see the final attempt go, if I could have made a sequel, which I outlined in my postmortem thing upthread, but that wouldn't really change how Eternal itself ends, and it does still incorporate themes from Rubicon, namely the Nakh bioweapon which could plausibly be inferred to be the origin of the Achilles virus.


I’m attempting to make Chronicles into this sequel, though it remains to be seen whether I will ever actually complete it. If I do, though, there will be a sort of loose tetralogy, because Phoenix was intentionally made as a prequel to Rubicon. As a result, the sequence will essentially go Eternal, then Phoenix, then Kindred Spirits (which is too short for me to consider the sequence a pentalogy), then Rubicon, then Chronicles.

…and one other thing: I didn’t bother rewriting the preciptation script for this because at the time, there weren’t any levels where you could see underwater, but the snow in “Babylon X” does keep falling after it hits the Jjaro slime. Obviously, it’s a bit late to fix this for 1.2 (although since the precipitation branch is only a semi-official branch, it might be less of a big deal to issue a fix), but for the 1.3 precipitation script, we’ll want to incorporate the changes I wrote into Chronicles (e.g., this script; the e.polygon.media stuff is the relevant bit).

…even more, from Discord:

[23:23] Aaron: welp, IDK why, but for some reason, A1 for Windows doesn't like Eternal's media textures
[23:23] Aaron: this seems to be the case both in 1.3 and in 1.2.1
[23:23] Aaron: for some reason, it only seems to load the top 1/4 of the water and human sewage textures
[23:23] Aaron: I have no idea why
[23:23] Aaron: there are a few other textures that seemed to smear when I was playing 2nd to last of the mohicans
[23:23] Aaron: i can't actually remember what they were supposed to be, LOL
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Apr 15th '19, 03:24

Quick question about the plot. How did the humans on K’lia operate its Cybernetic Junction without Hathor’s consent? They used hers to replace S’bhuth’s after all.
halosammy

Post Apr 15th '19, 05:00

Leela took control of the K'lia junction from Hathor in chapter 4, and then Hathor switched to using the Dreadnaught's junction. Then Leela came back to the future, and then left K'lia, so it's junction was unoccupied at the time and the humans could manually control it.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Apr 15th '19, 05:15

Pfhorrest wrote:Leela took control of the K'lia junction from Hathor in chapter 4, and then Hathor switched to using the Dreadnaught's junction. Then Leela came back to the future, and then left K'lia, so it's junction was unoccupied at the time and the humans could manually control it.

Ah thanks. I was trying to write something for a roleplay, and I wanted to make sure I got it right.
halosammy

Post Apr 15th '19, 11:57

The Man wrote:ETA: 1.3b3 appears to experience the same crash issues. 1.3b2 will load with texture quality set to “Highest”; however, at least “Where Giants Have Fallen” will crash almost immediately after loading. That’s strange.

Did you try my LAA build of 1.3b3? http://treellama.org/AlephOne-LAA.zip
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Apr 15th '19, 15:36

treellama wrote:
The Man wrote:ETA: 1.3b3 appears to experience the same crash issues. 1.3b2 will load with texture quality set to “Highest”; however, at least “Where Giants Have Fallen” will crash almost immediately after loading. That’s strange.

Did you try my LAA build of 1.3b3? http://treellama.org/AlephOne-LAA.zip

When I tried it, everything worked fine except for Where Giants Have Fallen.

Unless this is a newer LAA. In which case I’ll test it later.
halosammy

Post Apr 15th '19, 20:03

Just tried “We Met Once in the Garden” using the LAA build. It worked fine with texture quality turned back up to Unlimited, and moreover, the issue I mentioned about the water texture not loading in its entirety was absent. I don’t have any idea what you did to fix those issues, but whatever it was, thanks.

Haven’t tried “Where Giants Have Fallen” yet, though. Might do so later.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Apr 15th '19, 21:46

Well, since the HD textures are implemented as a plugin, perhaps it would be meet to release an alternate plugin, one notch lower in resolution? If produced from your Illustrator masters, they might not be subject to the sort of blurring The Man refers to.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Apr 15th '19, 23:51

I’d been considering making the same suggestion. It might be worth going for.

For the record, I’ve tested several levels using the LAA version TL linked, and most of them worked. “S’pht Happens” seems to have crashed. Given that “Where Giants Have Fallen” is the other level reported not to have worked using this version (I haven’t tested that level yet myself), it’s possible the problem is related to the long view distances in both levels.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Apr 16th '19, 00:23

been kinda too swamped to keep up with this thread, are there remaining problems after discovering that manually lowering the texture settings in Windows AO fixed the problem?

edit: also, is the problem fixed by manually lowering the texture settings something that affects all windows users? i.e. can no windows user on any version of Aleph One play Eternal without manually lowering those settings? and if so, is that not a thing that's going to ever be changed?

basically I'm wondering if reducing the resolution of Eternal's textures is going to be a mandatory change to make it run out of the box with no preference changes for all Windows users
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Apr 16th '19, 00:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Apr 16th '19, 00:25

Pfhorrest wrote:been kinda too swamped to keep up with this thread, are there remaining problems after discovering that manually lowering the texture settings in Windows AO fixed the problem?

Even if you lower the settings, the water in Where Giants Have Fallen is all stripy.
halosammy

Post Apr 16th '19, 00:30

You can change the texture resolution in the default prefs so that it runs out of the box, and users can just go in and increase it. Or you can ship it with lower resolution (but still good-looking--the original scenarios come with 512x512 textures and they look great) textures, for a smaller download size, and make the extremely high res ones a separately downloadable plugin.

I will investigate Aleph One's memory usage, and we might consider a 64-bit Windows build for 1.4, but for 1.3, consider the LAA build the best you're going to get.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Apr 16th '19, 00:42

Or you can ship it with lower resolution (but still good-looking--the original scenarios come with 512x512 textures and they look great) textures, for a smaller download size, and make the extremely high res ones a separately downloadable plugin.

I think this is liable to be the best short-term solution. We’ve already separated the precipitation off to its own branch, so it’s not as though there isn’t already precedent for it.

Should we try 1024x1024 for everything, including textures 0-9 in each collection, or just scale everything down to 512x512? (Alternatively, 0-9 could go to 1024x1024 and everything else could be 512x512.)

The stripy water was a problem in several levels using the regular 1.3b3, BTW, even when I lowered the texture resolution, but I haven’t noticed it in any of the levels I’ve tried using LAA yet. But I haven’t tried “Where Giants Have Fallen” yet.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Apr 16th '19, 00:56

Considering the game was made for Aleph One, and people probably expect it to work on old hardware, I'd say ship with 512x512 and anything extra should be a separate optional plugin.

That's generally how it's handled with mods for other games when insane texture sizes are available.
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Wrkncacnter

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