Eternal X 1.2

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Sep 28th '18, 07:15

Pfhorrest wrote:
The Man wrote:and I made a change to the “She Is the Dark One” physics to make Ticks immune to lava and not afraid of sewage

I'm not sure if that's something we want? I wouldn't expect Ticks to be fireproof, or to go into media at all.


Fireproof I agree is a bit much, but since ticks are perfectly capable of attacking underwater, I'd say they ought to not let a little water get in their way. She is the Dark One might be more fun if they care not about sewage.

It seems strange to me that the tick attack has the damage type Electrical Staff instead of Energy Drain. I suppose the change was made so that they could actually kill you, but I kinda expect them to stick to you and make you bleed, not push you away and zap you. I'd go with Shotgun for the damage type, which unless you've changed it is red and zero movement.

S'pht, on the other hand, probably ought to be be immune to lava like they are in M2/∞ given how much we find them IN lava. Or we need to go through and make sure none ever start under lava, which was a bit of a problem in 1.1.

Also, remember all those colour tables I added to the Defender collection that you were so excited about? That was another reason for having extra Defender slots in the physics for the S'pht chapters, we wanted to represent more of the clans in a manner consistent with the M2 terms. Colours of S'pht that attack you and each other when you're initially sent back during the civil war, were later seen working together against the Pfhor during the invasion. With only two slots devoted to Defenders for this chapter, we lose all that along with the heavy S'pht defenders.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Sep 29th '18, 09:39

I’ll probably get “She Is the Dark One” done within the next few days, but John informs me that the physics for “S’pht’ia” have gotten messed up again, with all the Defenders friendly to the player and each other, so I’m passing that along.

I’ll have a more detailed response later, but I should note that the reason I’d made the Ticks immune to lava in “She Is the Dark One” is because they kept submerging themselves in it in some of the rooms.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Sep 29th '18, 22:21

I had a look at S'pht Happens, and the latest version is unplayable. There are so many S'pht compensating for the lack of embedded physics that A1 hits its projectile limit, so monsters and your weapons cycle through their firing animations without creating any projectiles.

Here's a two-minute video of the current version: https://youtu.be/pkmbP5amZys

Here's how it was in the alpha with my physics: https://youtu.be/1Vx2HIQ_gr0

Here's a copy of the older version:
Attachments
S'pht Happens.tar.gz
Old version from April
(82.24 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Sep 30th '18, 03:55

Feel free to delete a bunch of the additional S’ph’t in the newer version. I only added them because you suggested infinite respawning but that want really feasible.

I did a bunch of lighting work on the new version that I really don’t want to revert.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Sep 30th '18, 07:47

I took your retouched version and the latest physics, and brought back the beefy Defenders. I also added a lot of polys to fine-tune the monster activation, added a little more sound, threw in a bunch more civillians, did some other mapping stuff, copied the changes to the physics template, and noted them in the spreadsheet. PR up.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 1st '18, 00:29

Thanks! That will probably work out fine. I especially appreciate updating the physics template and noting them in the spreadsheet. I'll check it all out when I'm back from the weekend.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 1st '18, 05:05

I’m not fully satisfied with this and will likely make further changes between beta 3 and beta 4, but I have very little free time and am coping with secondhand traumas* that have been brought screaming back to the forefront of my consciousness by recent news, so this is about as good as I expect to be able to make things right now. A few issues remaining:

· Weland lists two Water Yetis left. I can’t find them. The others have all been changed to Lava Yetis, as have all the Sewage Yetis.

· I haven’t begun to attempt figuring out Erich’s physics changes, so I haven’t implemented them. It’s fine just to overwrite the Sewage F’lickta, Water F’lickta, and Lava F’lickta slots with whatever they’re supposed to be. This probably also means overwriting F’lickta Claws and whatever other associated shots and effects need to be overwritten.

· I think there was a motion glitch with line 597. I haven’t figured out a resolution.

· You might want to increase the jumps that Ticks are willing to take, at least on this level.

· Still not satisfied with sounds (this is one issue I’ll address for beta 4).

· I’d have liked to create a few more geothermal vistas along the lines of Lia’s.

I’ll go ahead and upload this so Lia can tweak it some; if I have time between when she submits her version and the release of beta 3 to make a few more changes, I may do so, but I won’t promise anything. Regardless of how things turn out in the news, the next few weeks are going to be rough.

(*for those not familiar with this particular psychological term of art: not a trauma that occurred directly to me; a trauma that occurred to someone I loved that affected her severely enough that it wound up being traumatic to me as well by extension)
Attachments
23 She Is the Dark One 2018-10-01.zip
(84.88 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 1st '18, 05:50

Cool, I'll have a look on Tuesday. So, if you have any last minute "oh I should have done that"s there's still a day before I'll have time to download it.

Be well. I ain't gonna say more on a public forum no matter how obscure, but the news sure isn't helping me sleep at night.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 1st '18, 05:51

Thanks, and you too. If you need to vent privately, you’re always welcome to PM me.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 2nd '18, 05:33

finally had a chance to check out lia's changes to s'pht happens and I noticed a couple of things that need fixing

some of them were level-breaking map bugs, switches that no longer did what they were supposed to do. i fixed those myself, and also improved a few bits of texturing along the way too, including some doors that were mysteriously misaligned upside-down.

the other things I noticed though are:

- a weird bug with some of the defenders, I'm going to guess they're ones based on MADDs or Tanks, that keep continuously playing their dying animation over and over and over again.

- some of the defenders use cluts that shouldn't be used in this time period, namely 0 and 1, which are the colors used by the future s'pht'kr. past defenders (besides the s'pht'kr who use grey, either 2 or 6 i can't remember, maybe both) should use only 3, 4, 5, and 7.

lia any chance you can fix those things? i made a rough pass at the clut thing but you might want to change it some more. i'm kind of dying so just roughing my way through everything right now trying not to have a heart attack in my rush.

updated to Third Rock later tonight
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Oct 2nd '18, 06:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 2nd '18, 06:13

not enough time to devote to third rock so i'm just trusting that aaron and steve have ironed out the major bugs

there's definitely good differential shading so instead of hunt for 0% lighting I decided to just adjust all the level lights so that light 20 is 5% like 19% should be, and 0-19 and proportionally a tiny bit higher each.

i noticed some platforms were annoying slow and sped them up

also BIG THING i noticed that it uses the Earth spaceskape in the sky! I don't know how long that's been the case; has it always been like that!? This is taking place over Lh'owon thousands of years ago, there's no way it should have Earth and Luna in the sky! I changed all the landscape skies (I hope) to regular space in Weland and I'm guessing from what I saw in-game that there's no horizontal views of landscape anywhere but i have no time to playtest it so someone please confirm for me that that's correct and if it's not any chance that you could fix it please?

i'm sorry i'm falling apart my life is falling apart and i'm in a near constant state of rushed panick and this is about the place in eternal where everything always falls apart every pass through, chapter 3 is where it turns to shit and then i limp through chapter 4 and have nothing left for chapter 5 and it's left as shit. i'm sorry. thank you everyone for your help.

ETA everything is updated now on git of course
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 2nd '18, 20:22

Pfhorrest wrote:some of them were level-breaking map bugs, switches that no longer did what they were supposed to do. i fixed those myself, and also improved a few bits of texturing along the way too, including some doors that were mysteriously misaligned upside-down.


That is mysterious. I didn't mess with anything geometry or texturing near the switches at all, if those are broken, they were either broken on the one I downloaded or got mysteriously corrupted along the way. I don't even know how they are supposed to work, I always find the basement switch hunt too frustrating to remember.

Pfhorrest wrote:a weird bug with some of the defenders, I'm going to guess they're ones based on MADDs or Tanks, that keep continuously playing their dying animation over and over and over again.


I saw that happening on the MADD version, it was because I had forgotten to untick "Delayed Hard Death." I thought I fixed that before pushing... I suppose I don't need that slot at all, I'll just remove it.

Pfhorrest wrote:some of the defenders use cluts that shouldn't be used in this time period, namely 0 and 1, which are the colors used by the future s'pht'kr. past defenders (besides the s'pht'kr who use grey, either 2 or 6 i can't remember, maybe both) should use only 3, 4, 5, and 7.


Yeah, I had no idea what colours were supposed to represent what, so I guessed. A lot of what I'm seeing in the excel file doesn't make any sense, it'll take a sec to figure out

lia any chance you can fix those things? i made a rough pass at the clut thing but you might want to change it some more. i'm kind of dying so just roughing my way through everything right now trying not to have a heart attack in my rush.


I'll do what I can! And, um, don't die at us, okay?
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 2nd '18, 21:00

I will probably have more to say at home, but I just want to say I hope you're OK, Forrest, and that if you're not OK now, I hope you get through whatever you're dealing with OK. I'm genuinely worried. Take care of yourself.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 2nd '18, 21:14

Upon comprehensive examination, it appears as things are:

0 - indigo shell, fires green - future minor Kr
1 - red shell, fires green - future major Kr AND unimportant clan
2 - black shell, fires yellow - tower Kah
3 - orange shell, fires green - defender Lhar
4 - purple shell, fires green - unimportant clan
5 - green shell, fires yellow - past major Kr AND tower Shr
6 - grey shell, fires green - past minor Kr
7 - blue shell, fires green - agressor Mnr

5 looks bad on Kr, because they are currently set to always fire green bolts. Only the Tower Defenders fire yellow homing bolts.

IMHO, it's confusing to both player and mapmaker to have four different colours representing the Kr. I would just use indigo and red for them across the scenario, so players who haven't been part of the dev team can look at a defender and immediately say, "That's a S'pht'Kr" or "That's a S'pht from some other clan."

Also, if you're open to using a couple tank slots on the Civil War chapters, we could represent the Kr and Hra on those levels, to make more conspicuous their later absence.

Using only two colours for Kr, we could do:

(option 1)
0 - indigo shell, fires green - minor Kr
1 - red shell, fires green - major Kr
2 - black shell, fires yellow - tower Kah
3 - orange shell, fires green - defender Lhar
4 - purple shell, fires green - unimportant clan
5 - green shell, fires yellow - tower Shr
6 - grey shell, fires green - dying Hra
7 - blue shell, fires green - agressor Mnr

If we have four different S'pht'Kr, we could do:

(option 2)
0 - indigo shell, fires green - future minor Kr
1 - red shell, fires green - future major Kr
2 - black shell, fires yellow - tower Kah
3 - orange shell, fires green - defender Lhar
4 - purple shell, fires green - past Major Kr
5 - green shell, fires yellow - tower Shr
6 - grey shell, fires green - past minor Kr
7 - blue shell, fires green - agressor Mnr

Maybe only the S'pht'Kah man the tower, and the past Kr fire yellow homing bolts:

(option 3)
0 - indigo shell, fires green - future minor Kr
1 - red shell, fires green - future major Kr
2 - black shell, fires yellow - tower Kah
3 - orange shell, fires green - defender Lhar
4 - purple shell, fires green - dying Hra
5 - green shell, fires yellow - past Major Kr
6 - grey shell, fires green - past minor Kr
7 - blue shell, fires green - agressor Mnr

Although I prefer option 1, I'll work on implementing option 3 unless I hear otherwise, as it seems closest to your intentions.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 2nd '18, 21:36

I had only meant for one color to represent the Kr of the past (grey, I think clut 6), not two. But I guess there are two colors of Defender on K'lia in Third Rock, which doesn't make sense if the other isn't also Kr.

I couldn't remember what clut 2 (black) was even for.

I guess I'd be okay with the Kr always being their M2/Infinity colors (cluts 0 and 1) in every time frame, and the rest of the colors being other clans. Besides Mnr and Lhar being blue and orange, it doesn't really matter to me which clan is which color. And yeah, I guess if we're having Tanks be Defenders on some levels, they may as well be Defenders across the whole of chapter 3, which allows us to have dedicated slots for Defenders of every clan. I think maybe the actual Major and Minor Defender slots should be Mnr and Lhar, and the other four clans we have colors four should be the four tanks.

I'll let you assign what clan to what tank slot you like, and place them on the maps as you see fit. Thanks a bunch!

(And thank you both for your concern. Unending work stress and my mom's near-homelessness have me in a near-constant state of rushed panic and I'm concerned for my heart health and afraid I might be having heart attack or stroke like symptoms. I'm doing what I can to manage but oh there's more work piling in now have to go
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 2nd '18, 21:43

Take care, seriously. Anything to reduce your stress level, do it! See a doctor if you can. I know that's easier said than done, but I lost a friend to stroke because he never got his looked at, I'd hate to see another go.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 3rd '18, 00:50

FYI, I think I've got the physics work done. I just playtested S'pht'ia, which now has seven clans represented (there were plenty of empty rooms to fill!), and they all seem to be working as they should.

I also fixed a lot of monster activation problems there, it looks like it still had Eat It triggers which are backwards from how the player explores now, and some ledges had monsters on them taller than their ceiling heights.

Will continue on the other levels, uploading to Git as I go. I'll make a PR once I'm done.

The F'lick'ta seems to be throwing invisible projectiles and occasionally disappearing, I guess they're incomplete? I pulled the latest this morning before I started work. Anyway, Aaron you were working on that, right? Perhaps you can look at my copies of the physics and make sure the F'lick'ta are okay?
https://github.com/ravenshining/Eternal

EDIT Wait, I just saw there's a physics file included in the zip you posted, I'll look in there.
S'pht Happens and Let Sleeping Gods Die updated with new s'pht
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 3rd '18, 02:11

Thanks Lia! The F'lick'ta physics depend on the new shapes that Erich posted a little while back, that's probably why their projectiles are invisible to you. I also made some further edits to their physics and the CLUTs in the shapes myself, so just expect them to be kinda weird for now. I'll post my shapes file some time soon.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 3rd '18, 03:36

My current shapes:

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_curren ... hapes.shpA

Those plus the current physics templates on git should make the F'lick'ta function properly.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 3rd '18, 04:45

I’ll try to figure out whatever physics issues still need to be figured out tomorrow, schedule permitting. John has written via email:

Aaron, I am sorry to hear that you and Forrest are having a difficult time. I think you two should step back from Eternal. Your lives and well-being mean much more any game ever good. It will still be there. See to yourselves first. I have a feeling you know you need to do that.

All the best to you and Forrest. I hope things get better for both of you very soon. Please relay these words to Forrest if you would.


He has a point. None of us should let work on this project or any other stress us out too much. I mentioned that I’ve actually found Marathon to be a superb source of stress relief on the whole, but trying to maintain a particular release schedule can be its own source of stress, so there’s that.

I’ll also echo what Lia said about seeing a doctor if at all possible. Seriously. Take care.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 3rd '18, 05:57

Thanks Aaron, and thank John for me too. For my part, working on Eternal isn't really more stress for me exactly, it's more that all the other stressors keeping me from getting what I want to get done on Eternal done is stressful. "It will still be there" is what I kept saying to myself about all my projects for the past twenty years -- the Chronicles (of Quelouva, not your Marathon scenario), my philosophy book the Codex, and Eternal -- I kept putting them off because "I'm too tired and worn out and I'll get around to them whenever I have the time and energy" and now it's decades later, and some time around two years ago I decided I didn't want to die with all this unfinished stuff on my plate, so I wasn't going to keep putting things off, I'm making "do the things I'd want to be doing if I had time to do them no thanks all the things I have to do" into one of the "things I have to do". I got a second job, working for myself, on things like this.

FWIW it's been immensely stress-relieving to have the both of you helping out, to know that if I just couldn't fit in the work I had scheduled to do on some level on some night, there was a chance one of you could follow behind me and make better the stuff I didn't have time to do, instead of me having to push everything else even further back in the schedule (which pushes back everything behind that, on back to the end of the literal 30 years of week-by-week scheduling of stuff I have on my to do list). One of the things that makes my real job so stressful is how there's an enormous amount of work that all has to be done perfectly and immediately and by me alone, and if I fall just a little behind every now and then, that will build and build and build until I am always far behind every day, because there is no other shift before or after me, anything left over at the end of one day gets stacked on top of the next day's work, so I can never, ever fall behind, because I will never catch up again. Having you guys to help so that Eternal isn't like that is a merciful gift. Thank you both again. (And Erich and everyone else who's helped out with things too!)

Anyway, I don't think there's any more physics issues to be figured out, with regarding the F'lick'ta at least. Lia is on top of the modified Defender physics.

Tonight I ran through Flight of Icarus and wow, it's probably the best-looking level in this chapter. I made some minor texture alignment and lighting fixes tonight and that's about it.

Tomorrow night I plan to fix a couple of texture bugs I've found, and then maybe package up beta 3, depending. If Lia needs another day to finish up what she's working on (and I think Aaron's all done with his ch3 stuff already right?), I can hold off until Thursday night to package everything up. I just won't have any time to do anything more extensive than distributing the physics changes and zipping and uploading stuff that night myself.

Oh and in personal news, my mom got significantly further away from homelessness tonight, so that's a little stress relieved too. It probably won't last, because she has has been teetering on the brink of homelessness for the past three years (though never as close as she came in the past month), but temporary respite is still some respite.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 3rd '18, 09:15

Absolutely massive PR up
all the sphts in all the right places
much revision of She is the Dark One
flammable monsters don't start underlava
not everything is tested, but
now I must sleep

oh, the three glass windows (overlooking the geothermal and previous level) on She is the Dark One have not had their interior textures aligned. It's a fiddly thing that requires using the new textures to see right, and A1 keeps crashing when I try to align them with the new textures on.

and the s'pht were getting eaten alive by all the ticks, I set them to be neutral towards spht for ch. 21-23. Those things are a bit OP, hitting with a pair of 60 damage attacks!

won't have time to do anything more until saturday. now really sleeping
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 3rd '18, 16:10

thank you so much lia! hope you sleep well
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 3rd '18, 19:18

There’s still one major motion glitch in “Third Rock” that I haven’t yet had time to fix. It’s probably line 446, though I don’t recall for certain. Anyway I haven’t had time to figure out a workaround. I’ll probably make some other changes to the level as well (mostly to expand it further) when I can really give it my full attention; I just haven’t had a chance.

I’m not sure if I’ll have time to look at the “Dark One” texturing before tomorrow, but hopefully I’ll at least have time for that.

Thanks for all your work, Lia. And no problem as regards my own work – it’s been quite rewarding on my own behalf to work on a collaborative project this large. It’d been awhile since I’d had that opportunity, and it’s entirely possible that the last time I did so, one of the collaborators wound up winning the Academy Award for Best Picture sixteen years later, so. Not that I’m claiming I had anything to do with that, mind.

Glad your mother’s doing better, Forrest.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 3rd '18, 20:14

While you're working on Third Rock, I'm pretty sure I set up the physics so:
Minor defender - Red and stronger
Major defender - Indigo and weaker
That is, how it is across the rest of the scenario. Indigo S'pht'Kr now show up on S'pht'ia, Let Sleeping Gods Die, and She is the Dark One, but no red S'pht'Kr. So, maybe either don't use Minor Defenders, or I'll alter the physics again later so they are both indigo and red is reserved for the future, if we want to do that.

Oh, one thing I should probably mention lest people get confused if they open up the physics, is that for 21-23, I altered the monster classes and friends and enemies on the tank and madd slots so the different S'pht clans are neutral to each other, except the Mnr and Lhar who attack each other and the player, and the Kr who are friends with everyone.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

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