RESCUE

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.

Post Sep 25th '08, 20:10

How does the rescue type map work?
Like in the M1A1 level, "The Rose" The final terminal will change depending on how many BOBs you save.
How do you determine how many BOBs dictate success or failure?
MoppyPuppy
Lake Nebagamon, WI

Post Sep 25th '08, 21:04

I believe the success and failure terminal scripts were only in the original M1. I think if you don't manage to save at least half of the bobs in Alephone then the mission is considered unfinished.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Sep 25th '08, 22:11

save bobs = success??? i had the wrong idea the whole time.
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screamingfool

Post Sep 25th '08, 23:05

You can flag any map as having "Rescue" mission, but it was only used in M1. The rescue mission type always requires you to save 50% of ally monsters on the level.
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$lave

Post Sep 26th '08, 06:26

What do the other flags do? Apart from the obvious, of course.

How do you set it so you start with no weapons?
Major Pedro

Post Sep 26th '08, 07:29

You set it to rebellion if you want that. It says in the forge manual.
Last edited by Shadowbreaker on Sep 26th '08, 07:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Sep 26th '08, 10:03

I thought the rescue flag didn't work? Or has the game mode been re-implemented in A1?
Embrace imagination.
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chinkeeyong
Singapore

Post Sep 26th '08, 10:49

chinkeeyong wrote:I thought the rescue flag didn't work? Or has the game mode been re-implemented in A1?


Nobody ever uses it, so I don't think it would matter. I am sure that it was originally part of A1 though, otherwise we couldn't edit with it in Infinity.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Sep 26th '08, 12:16

Major Pedro wrote:What do the other flags do? Apart from the obvious, of course.

Oops, missed your question the first time round.

Extermination - kill everything before entering Automatic Exit
Exploration - must enter the polygons marked 'Must be explored' before entering Auto Exit
Retrieval - get all S'pht key cards and uplink chips before entering Auto Exit
Repair - flip all switches marked as repair switches before entering Auto Exit
Rescue - supposed to save half Bobs before entering Auto Exit, but actually useless
(if nothing is checked, the player can instantly warp out via Auto Exit)

Vacuum - Steadily depleting oxygen
Rebellion - Start with around 30% health and no weapons
Low Gravity - Exactly what it sounds like
Magnetic - Faulty motion sensor which updates sporadically and with false alarms

Incidentally, with MML and Lua, you can make a whole host of other effects such as permanent extravision a la Eternal, a totally disabled motion sensor, beginning with any number of nonstandard weapons, steadily depleting health, and so on.

Shadowbreaker wrote:Nobody ever uses it, so I don't think it would matter. I am sure that it was originally part of A1 though, otherwise we couldn't edit with it in Infinity.

It doesn't work AFAIK. There's no flags to say which monsters must be saved or anything, setting it does zilch, and anyway it's kinda useless. It's like a vestigial feature of Forge from its M1 days. You could fake it with Lua if you really wanted it.
Last edited by chinkeeyong on Sep 26th '08, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
Embrace imagination.
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chinkeeyong
Singapore

Post Sep 26th '08, 13:03

chinkeeyong wrote:It doesn't work AFAIK. There's no flags to say which monsters must be saved or anything, setting it does zilch, and anyway it's kinda useless. It's like a vestigial feature of Forge from its M1 days. You could fake it with Lua if you really wanted it.


You set which monsters are "friendly" in the physics model, not the map. Also, that mission type doesn't stop you from leaving the level, it only affects terminals by displaying a "failure" message if you don't save enough monsters, so it wouldn't do anything unless you have a map with terminals displaying both messages.
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$lave

Post Sep 29th '08, 10:15

$lave wrote:You set which monsters are "friendly" in the physics model, not the map.

I didn't know that. So someone could make a map where you have to save defenders, or friendly juggernauts, or something. [MWuh]

$lave wrote:Also, that mission type doesn't stop you from leaving the level, it only affects terminals by displaying a "failure" message if you don't save enough monsters, so it wouldn't do anything unless you have a map with terminals displaying both messages.

True, I forgot that one.
Embrace imagination.
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chinkeeyong
Singapore

Post Oct 2nd '08, 04:02

chinkeeyong wrote:*all that stuff you said*


Ah, cool.

permanent extravision a la Eternal


I haven't encountered that yet- I'm stuck on one of the first levels dangit
Major Pedro

Post Jan 6th '15, 01:06

Nice summary. I appreciate it. Especially the part about the rescue flag. I've been beating my head trying to figure out why I was allowed to exit when all bobs were killed...now I know. :)

chinkeeyong wrote:
Major Pedro wrote:What do the other flags do? Apart from the obvious, of course.

Oops, missed your question the first time round.

Extermination - kill everything before entering Automatic Exit
Exploration - must enter the polygons marked 'Must be explored' before entering Auto Exit
Retrieval - get all S'pht key cards and uplink chips before entering Auto Exit
Repair - flip all switches marked as repair switches before entering Auto Exit
Rescue - supposed to save half Bobs before entering Auto Exit, but actually useless
(if nothing is checked, the player can instantly warp out via Auto Exit)

Vacuum - Steadily depleting oxygen
Rebellion - Start with around 30% health and no weapons
Low Gravity - Exactly what it sounds like
Magnetic - Faulty motion sensor which updates sporadically and with false alarms

Incidentally, with MML and Lua, you can make a whole host of other effects such as permanent extravision a la Eternal, a totally disabled motion sensor, beginning with any number of nonstandard weapons, steadily depleting health, and so on.

Shadowbreaker wrote:Nobody ever uses it, so I don't think it would matter. I am sure that it was originally part of A1 though, otherwise we couldn't edit with it in Infinity.

It doesn't work AFAIK. There's no flags to say which monsters must be saved or anything, setting it does zilch, and anyway it's kinda useless. It's like a vestigial feature of Forge from its M1 days. You could fake it with Lua if you really wanted it.
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dustu

Post Jan 6th '15, 16:29

Hi,

I've played with these more and now discovered that you basically have these types of games from these choices:

1. Extermination only (kill all when rebellion is checked or leave 7 if rebellion is not checked). Cannot be mixed with Retrieval & Repair or auto exit from level will not function.

2. Retrieval Only

3. Retrieval and Repair

4. Exploration Only or Exploration combined with one of the prior 3 choices.

Any I missing anything? Does this sound right to folks? I'm of course not going into the options in more detail here (vacuum, low gravity, or magnetic - those were explained in the original post. :) ).

-p


chinkeeyong wrote:
Major Pedro wrote:What do the other flags do? Apart from the obvious, of course.

Oops, missed your question the first time round.

Extermination - kill everything before entering Automatic Exit
Exploration - must enter the polygons marked 'Must be explored' before entering Auto Exit
Retrieval - get all S'pht key cards and uplink chips before entering Auto Exit
Repair - flip all switches marked as repair switches before entering Auto Exit
Rescue - supposed to save half Bobs before entering Auto Exit, but actually useless
(if nothing is checked, the player can instantly warp out via Auto Exit)

Vacuum - Steadily depleting oxygen
Rebellion - Start with around 30% health and no weapons
Low Gravity - Exactly what it sounds like
Magnetic - Faulty motion sensor which updates sporadically and with false alarms

Incidentally, with MML and Lua, you can make a whole host of other effects such as permanent extravision a la Eternal, a totally disabled motion sensor, beginning with any number of nonstandard weapons, steadily depleting health, and so on.

Shadowbreaker wrote:Nobody ever uses it, so I don't think it would matter. I am sure that it was originally part of A1 though, otherwise we couldn't edit with it in Infinity.

It doesn't work AFAIK. There's no flags to say which monsters must be saved or anything, setting it does zilch, and anyway it's kinda useless. It's like a vestigial feature of Forge from its M1 days. You could fake it with Lua if you really wanted it.
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dustu

Post Jan 6th '15, 16:30

By the way, I would totally use the rescue option if it were working. I think it would make a cool option to single player games! :)
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dustu

Post Jan 6th '15, 17:52

dustu wrote:By the way, I would totally use the rescue option if it were working. I think it would make a cool option to single player games! :)

I agree. While I liked blowing up the bobs, I especially enjoyed the rescue missions from marathon too.
It's too bad most players in marathon don'T really care about the rescue mode.
XXXXTYCHOXXXX

$lave wrote:Damnit bridgit, you are forgetting how fucking serious business the internet is.
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Tycho X
Aenna Prime

Post Jan 7th '15, 04:29

You could fake a rescue mission within an extermination mission. Have a terminal, and if the extermination mission is a failure (too many monsters alive) then the terminal displays a victory message. If the extermination mission is a success, then have the terminal display a failure message.
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philtron

Post Jan 8th '15, 07:04

Interesting idea. I like it!

philtron wrote:You could fake a rescue mission within an extermination mission. Have a terminal, and if the extermination mission is a failure (too many monsters alive) then the terminal displays a victory message. If the extermination mission is a success, then have the terminal display a failure message.
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dustu

Post Jan 8th '15, 14:31

although using an inverted extermination mode would also mean that none of the monsters could be killed to be successful. Of course one could do a level with just bobs in it, but then it'll be more of a "leave the bobs alone" mission than a rescue mission, since there aren't any enemies to rescue them from.
Perhaps one could rescue them from running into the lava or prevent 'em from getting crushed by platforms (the game Lemmings comes to mind)
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Bobwithkeycard
AMS-Tower

Post Jan 8th '15, 15:33

Why not just use embedded Lua?
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jan 8th '15, 16:14

treellama wrote:Why not just use embedded Lua?


That would be too easy.


Bobwithkeycard wrote:although using an inverted extermination mode would also mean that none of the monsters could be killed to be successful.


You could actually kill the monsters and be successful. The real problem is that you could kill NONE of the monsters and ALL of the Bobs, and the "rescue" would still be considered a success. If I remember correctly, an extermination mission is still considered a success if some amount of monsters, regardless of allegiance, are left alive, I think it's maybe 14. So, if there are 14 (or whatever the number is) monsters still alive then the extermination is a failure, and the rescue is a success.

It would be difficult to make certain that those 14 monsters are Bobs and only Bobs. You could make it work using some convoluted methods, but you could also just use lua scripts like treellama suggested, or you could just not do a rescue mission because missions where you have to keep NPCs alive are always stupid and frustrating. Or you could make it a tower defense.
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philtron


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