Mararthon: Yuge / YugePax

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.

Re: YugePax

Post Apr 20th '17, 09:16

Ah, I'll get rid of the door then.

Oh, and are fluids possible? I haven't done anything to use them, just curious. I imagine light dependent media would be an issue.
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General Tacticus

Post Apr 20th '17, 15:38

Liquids are already supported, including the tide light.

Other things I still want to make work:
* Teleporters within a yugepart
* Platform triggers (I noticed you had this in one of your maps)
* Platform switches (Using an annotation)
* Rechargers (using an annotation)

Also, you can add powerups (but not regular ammo). If you want to designate an area to spawn regular ammo, assign it as an item trigger. Don't go too nuts with this, as there will already be plenty of places with ammo by default.

If you want a switch or recharger, just draw out the area with the switch, and add an annotation to the polygon. "R" for recharger and "S_30" for a platform switch, where 30 is the polygon index of the platform. I don't want rechargers everywhere, so I'll probably set a max of 1 or 2 on each map, and delete any extras. I think adding an energy can is probably better than a recharger in most cases.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Apr 22nd '17, 02:26

Apparently Forge does weird things with maps that I don't understand, so for anyone mapping, please use Weland. I could probably figure it out if I absolutely have to, but I'd think people would want to use Weland anyway.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Apr 22nd '17, 03:56

Wrkncacnter wrote:Apparently Forge does weird things with maps that I don't understand, so for anyone mapping, please use Weland. I could probably figure it out if I absolutely have to, but I'd think people would want to use Weland anyway.


WELL!.jpg
WELL!.jpg (25.9 KiB) Viewed 2665 times
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Windbreaker
South Park, CO

Post Apr 28th '17, 17:34

I've made progress on the monster/item spawns. I want to make various improvements to the monster spawns, but I'm hoping to have a small demo scenario available within the next few days to demonstrate how the level generation works, and maybe get some feedback on how fun the results are.

If anyone is sitting on any completed yugeparts that they want included as part of the demo, please PM them or upload them here within the next couple days.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Apr 29th '17, 01:52

Ok, here are the ones I have ready
Attachments
Bigly archived.zip
(21.96 KiB) Downloaded 34 times
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General Tacticus

Post Apr 29th '17, 04:06

General Tacticus wrote:Ok, here are the ones I have ready

Thanks! These look great.

I noticed you got rid of the platform triggers and door in the middle of your first MediumRoom. I got platform triggers working so you could keep it the way you had it, unless you just decided against it.

Your corner and hallway intersections do not have any monster polygons defined. Is this intentional? You don't necessarily have to have monsters in the small yugeparts, but I thought I'd check.

One thing I forgot to mention is you can add sounds, which come in handy when there is liquid.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Apr 29th '17, 21:17

Yeah, I figured I'd throw in the occasional empty room to mix things up a little. I'll change 'em if it would be better otherwise.

I will, however, definitely get to adding sounds. (sound objects, right?)
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General Tacticus

Post Apr 29th '17, 21:30

Empty rooms are fine, as long as it's not one of the big pieces. Yours are fine.

Yeah, just add sound objects like normal.
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 2nd '17, 03:05

OK, I've got a 7 level demo of this ready to try out. Ideally there'd be quite a bit more map variation added before an official release, but I'm pretty happy with the amount we've already got after 2 weeks. Thanks Windbreaker and General Tacticus!

If anyone wants to try this out and give feedback on the level generation process, I'm open to suggestions. Is it too hard? Too easy? Is it fun to play?

Known issues:
* A couple platforms don't have textures applied correctly.
* Stairs are still ugly. I haven't gone through and annotated them all yet. I'll wait till things are a little more final before doing that.
* There are no "boss" spawns yet (juggernaut, MOAH, MOAC). I intend to add them at some point.
Attachments
YugeDemo.zip
(360.62 KiB) Downloaded 49 times
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 2nd '17, 11:19

Took about two and a half hours actual playing time to finish the first level forked needlepoint on TC. I used Windows7, no plugins, the Trinity sounds file, and the only script was Kill Counter.

I like it. I would classify it as fun and I’m looking forward to having a go at the next level worried baboon.
As it stands (noting your statement about boss spawns) it’s probably too easy but that may be due to the prevalence of swarm battles or the size of the level. The impression of difficulty is often associated with the time it takes to complete.

My impression of Marathon (as opposed to Halo, Destiny et al.) is that Marathon is generally fewer but more robust enemies and tactical maneuvers instead of just madly rushing about. Considering the scale and style of this project, though, I’m not sure that’s an option. (End preferences rant). Still, I do like using the Survival script on net maps, which is what I‘m doing with YugePax, and that’s definitely swarm battles.

Variation doesn’t seem so important as it is like a yuge building and buildings tend to be fairly uniform on the inside. The variation in the textures is good; that is like a real building. I found it visually pleasant and really didn’t notice the geometric repetition until I looked at the overhead map.

I found some glitches (see attachments). One where a hunter would disappear but keep firing on the right side of the pillar (in the screenshot the hunter is already deceased), a suspended corpse, and a shotgun that varies in length as you approach. There were probably others, but they were lost in the fun of carnage.

I felt there was way too much ammo especially since I’m usually wasteful with it. I ended with 20 batteries, 11 M75 clips, 9 grenade clips, and 92 shotgun shells (even after some wasteful shot gunning at the end). When you add some boss battles, this overabundance will likely disappear so it may be the proper amount. We’ll see.

There was sufficient health. I was usually low on health but that makes you manage it and think about what you’re doing instead of just blundering around like a bull in a china shop. I ended with about 4/10 red bar. Still, I was alive and nothing else on the level was and that’s the whole point of the exercise.

From a strictly player’s point of view, I think this is a great project.
Attachments
forkedneedlepoint_0005.png
forkedneedlepoint_0004.png
forkedneedlepoint_0000.png
forkedneedlepoint_0002.png
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post May 3rd '17, 17:12

Thanks for the feedback HelviusRufus. Getting the amount of ammo right is tricky, as the ammo rooms aren't necessarily evenly distributed across the level. I try to average out how much ammo to put in each room based on how many monsters are on the level, but that obviously needs tweaking. As a result, some levels may be easier than others in terms of how much ammo you have at a given point in time. I think I can improve this.

I think swarm battles will be fairly prevalent no matter what, but I think a lot of this depends on how the mapper sets up their rooms.

The glitches you found are mostly marathon/alephone oddities and there's not a lot I would be able to do about them. It doesn't sound like anything was horribly broken though.

Thanks again for giving it a shot, and I'd be interested to hear what you think after seeing more of the levels.
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 4th '17, 11:47

Collect the worried baboon chips. No reason given. But you do it. You don’t know why. Now the place is different but vaguely familiar. Collect the worried baboon chips. No reason given.
Chips chips chips.
Chips chips chips.
Lovely chips.
Wonderful chips.
It’s like a Kafka dream.

This is a fun level too. Plenty of ammo, plenty of health (but not so much that you can be careless), pleasing visuals, easy to navigate, formidable but mortal enemies, a great king of the hill room, who could ask for anything more?

Spoiler:
And a room full o splodin bobs!
King o the hill here, rush up to the terminal then pick ‘em off as they come up the lift.
There ought to be a prize in the high niche on the north wall (polygons 164-165).

Spoiler:
The door under the goo is kewel. But… duck into the room through the regular door then right back out: the fighter chases you and gets zapped by the enforcer! Heh heh.

If you dally on the mezzanine after coming through the first door, the fighters will leave their places and hunt you down like a dog. Is this the intent? They come up the central lift and jump off: it’s like skeet shooting. But, alas, no shotguns here.

Since this is a fun project, I’d like to make a suggestion. In the areas such a polygon 17-18 at the very start, instead of having the enemy teleport in, he is already there, facing away from the player, and does not immediately turn around. When the player shoots the enemy, the corpse falls on top of a toilet. I mean, these places look for the world like water closet stalls.

More on forked needlepoint:

Re ammo. Since the ammo you can carry is limited if you’re not on TC my ammo assessment in my previous comment is not really valid.

I did a sort of speed run on forked needlepoint and the run to polygon 667 is like a dance. Sailing in graceful arcs through the air, the doors opening at just the right time, all smooth flowing motion. It’s a little jerky at the end due to the placement of the teleporter. I’ve tried going behind the teleporter, grabbing the chip then curving into the teleporter (which seems to be the design intention) but I just can’t seem to get the right curve after grabbing the chip. I guess the problem may be compensating for the incoming fire which is intense.
I would attach a film (filA) but don't know how. You can't attach an extension filA.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post May 7th '17, 18:20

Made some parts, lemme know if I did somethin' wrong. Is there any filename pattern that makes things easier for you?
Attachments
YUGESLAVE.zip
(16.6 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
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$lave

Post May 7th '17, 20:37

Awesome, thanks $lave. These yugeparts all look good.

As far as naming, I have to keep a local mapping of other people's part names to my own, and there isn't really away around that. As long as each of your parts have a unique name, and they remain consistent if you update an existing one, it will be fine.
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 10th '17, 04:21

Heads up to anyone mapping, if you're placing raised ledges for monsters to shoot from, there need to be at least 2 polygons for each ledge. If a monster is stranded on only 1 polygon, they go full retard and just stand there not shooting.
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 10th '17, 04:54

Hah, I always thought it they needed enough WU to move in, not polygons. I'll fix that C:
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$lave

Post May 13th '17, 02:37

I've been debating whether to make the number of juggernaut spawns for rooms random. In some cases I feel like it shouldn't be a guaranteed spawn, but mappers might make a room specifically designed for a juggernaut battle. So, I decided to do it this way:

* Place 1 juggernaut = 25% chance of spawning 1 juggernaut
* Place 2 juggernauts = 50% chance of spawning 1 juggernaut
* Place 3 juggernauts = 75% chance of spawning 1 juggernaut
* Place 4 juggernauts = 100% chance of spawning 1 juggernaut
* Place 5 juggernauts = 1 guaranteed spawn, 25% for a second
* Place 6 juggernauts = 1 guaranteed spawn, 50% for a second
* Place 7 juggernauts = 1 guaranteed spawn, 75% for a second
* Place 8+ juggernauts = 2 guaranteed spawns
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 18th '17, 04:32

OK, I think I'm about at the point in this process where I'm supposed to announce that my hard drive crashed and I lost everything.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen, so I figured I'd give a bit of a status update instead. Since the demo, I've improved the balance quite a bit, and have added a few features.

* MOAH/MOAC and Juggernauts spawn now. Plus a new boss monster has been added.
* A random monster type is selected to help you each level. This also means bobs and stuff that are usually friendly will be your enemy unless they are selected. This helps with the variation of monster types.
* This is a full scenario with some custom sounds, wall textures, music, menu screens, etc. All maps will continue to be fully compatible with infinity as well.
* The main scenario will be around 30 levels with a bunch of secret levels thrown in (probably). Along with that, I'll most likely include a set of bigly bonus packs with 256 levels each with varying degrees of difficulty and other modified parameters.

I'm just about done with all the level generation stuff I had hoped to accomplish. At this point I will probably just be doing minor tweaks to balance and stuff like that.

The main thing left is mapping. Windbreaker has been going nuts making yugeparts, and with $lave's additions we've already got quite a bit more diversity than when the demo was posted. There is still more work to do though. I'm trying to get an idea of how much more mapping I can expect from other people. Please respond to this if you're working on maps or are planning to start within the next couple months. I'm hoping for a summer release.

Here's where the mapping currently stands:
Corners: 6. Target = 10+
Hallway Intersections: 8. Target = 10+
Hallways: 7. Target = 10+
Intersections: 5. Target = 10+
Large Intersections: 9. Target = 20+
Long Halls: 2. Target = 10+ (This is a new one windbreaker made. I will attach it for anyone that wants to work on these)
Medium Rooms: 9. Target = 20+
Yuge Rooms: 14. Target = 20+
LongHallTemplate.zip
(1010 Bytes) Downloaded 36 times


While it's not absolutely critical we hit all these targets, I think people will be able to play more levels without getting bored if we do. Of course, if we go over those targets, it'll be even better.



Oh, I may have forgotten to mention: Mararthon: Yuge is a COLO(U)RS scenario.
Yuge1.png

Yuge2.png

Yuge3.png

Yuge4.png

Yuge5.png

Yuge6.png

Yuge7.png

Yuge8.png

Yuge9.png
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 18th '17, 04:47

Colours textures look great. Didn't even know it existed.
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philtron

Post May 19th '17, 03:06

This is really fun, :D and while you can see the geometric similarities they don't see repetitive.

There are 23,887,872 distinct ways to complete the current 7 level demo.

If this way of working keeps up, the 30 level campaign will be... well... Yuge.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post May 19th '17, 16:40

I love the look of solid colored walls, but good god... those screenshots are just *screaming* for an ambient occlusion pass!
TrajansRow

Post May 24th '17, 05:26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsZFoyQpxAw
Outdated at this point. But game play. In Aleph One. In YugePax. Go throw up in a corner. Not that one.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post May 24th '17, 06:05

rekt

That bug where you get stuck has been fixed by the way, thanks for pointing it out.
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 26th '17, 07:32

Wrkncacnter wrote:Please respond to this if you're working on maps or are planning to start within the next couple months.

I'll take a crack at this. Got one YugeRoom done so far:
President-YugeRoom1.zip
(6.15 KiB) Downloaded 25 times

Please let me know if I've gotten anything wrong here, escpecially objects. They're becoming invisible after placement for some reason, so I have to get them just right on the first try. Thankfully, we're mapping in small chunks, so nuking objects isn't a huge loss if it comes to that.

Anyway, if everything checks out, I'll keep on trucking.
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President People

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