5D-space 'trap'

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.

Post Sep 12th '10, 19:32

K'taur, I cannot explain why the error happened, but I figured out how to solve it.
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goran

Post Sep 12th '10, 20:24

G.S.10 wrote:I see he has potential. Don't you?

The "What" was mainly in reply to his being a new mapper, which I don't think is the case; and to a handful of Ne Cede Malis-esque rooms being the most interesting thing you've seen in a long time from a new mapper. I realize you're trying to be encouraging, but now all the other new mappers are in the corner sobbing.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 12th '10, 21:12

G.S.10 wrote:K'taur, I cannot explain why the error happened, but I figured out how to solve it.


[[facepalm]]...the one thing i didn't try. i've been rearranging and redrawing polygons for days... Thanks so much, Goran.
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ktaur

Post Sep 12th '10, 21:33

I realize you're trying to be encouraging, but now all the other new mappers are in the corner sobbing.


I didn't realize what had happened before it was too late. I need to think further next time :D
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goran

Post Sep 12th '10, 21:44

G.S.10 wrote:Hey, you may have a chance at becoming the community's next great mapper. It's by far the most interesting mapping I've seen from a new mapper in a long time.


Thanks for the props, but i'm not a new mapper...just a slightly rusty old mapper back after several years' hiatus ;)

Treellama, your point about the rooms resembling Ne Cede Malis is well taken, and that map was the inspiration. i'm interested in including familiar architectural features (though referenced moreso than copied) in order to ground the map in the good ol' Infinity we know and love, while employing unique features (like the doors, elevator, etc.) This might turn into a bigger project than just a single, sprawling solo level, or it might not...i really don't have the time to devote to this at all, but it's just such an enticing timesink...
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ktaur

Post Sep 12th '10, 22:02

K wrote:Thanks for the props, but i'm not a new mapper...just a slightly rusty old mapper back after several years' hiatus ;)


That explains the good mapping :)
Have you released anything previously?
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goran

Post Sep 12th '10, 22:27

G.S.10 wrote:[image]

Well played, sir.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 12th '10, 23:26

Goran's image basically sums up how I felt about every rating he's given me on Simplici7y.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Sep 12th '10, 23:53

G.S.10 wrote:That explains the good mapping :)
Have you released anything previously?


Never released anything online. Basically a group of friends and i circulated maps back and forth (this was back when we all had 28.8 modems and Marathon was a LAN-only game).

i've been looking back through a bunch of old maps i created (many of them half-finished), making some updates. i might release those soon...
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ktaur

Post Sep 13th '10, 10:22

K wrote:Never released anything online. Basically a group of friends and i circulated maps back and forth (this was back when we all had 28.8 modems and Marathon was a LAN-only game).

i've been looking back through a bunch of old maps i created (many of them half-finished), making some updates. i might release those soon...


So far back. I was mapping back then too. Weird how this game sticks with you. If you ever get around to finish those maps, I'd love to see an upload.
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goran

Post Sep 13th '10, 21:23

G.S.10 wrote:So far back. I was mapping back then too. Weird how this game sticks with you. If you ever get around to finish those maps, I'd love to see an upload.


So many other games are out there, but i can't help coming back to Marathon. i'll try and revise some old maps and post em soon...
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ktaur

Post Sep 13th '10, 22:15

So is there a conclusion you reached on what the problem was? Although I don't map anymore, my dabbling in the file format has made me interested in engine bugs.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Sep 13th '10, 22:32

irons wrote:So is there a conclusion you reached on what the problem was? Although I don't map anymore, my dabbling in the file format has made me interested in engine bugs.


If I were to guess, I'd say that the problematic polygon had too many transparent lines that were parallel with other transparent lines. By cutting up the polygon into three polygons, I reduced the amount of transparent lines per polygon, which seemed to be enough to stop the engine confusion. If you think of the classical "too many paralell transparent lines" problem, it's either solved by moving the lines or by splitting up the polygon into smaller polygons. Since the problem in K'taurs map were indeed fixed by cutting up a polygon into smaller polygons, I'd say it's a fair guess.

EDIT: So, basically, I think you were right with your first explanation, but I'm not 100% sure.
Last edited by goran on Sep 13th '10, 22:35, edited 1 time in total.
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goran

Post Sep 13th '10, 23:45

G.S.10 wrote:If I were to guess, I'd say that the problematic polygon had too many transparent lines that were parallel with other transparent lines. By cutting up the polygon into three polygons, I reduced the amount of transparent lines per polygon, which seemed to be enough to stop the engine confusion. If you think of the classical "too many paralell transparent lines" problem, it's either solved by moving the lines or by splitting up the polygon into smaller polygons. Since the problem in K'taurs map were indeed fixed by cutting up a polygon into smaller polygons, I'd say it's a fair guess.

EDIT: So, basically, I think you were right with your first explanation, but I'm not 100% sure.


i'm pretty certain that was it, too...the problem bore a lot of resemblances to the Invisible Polygon Line Barrier of Illogical Infinity. i was attacking it from the wrong side of the elevator, when the problem was the elevator polygons themselves. i'm not sure what else it could have been. Also, as per irons interest in the engine, this behaviour has existed as long as the engine has, and probably has its origins in fundamental aspects of how polygons are handled. As Goran figured out, this little quirk is rather easily circumvented.
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ktaur

Post Sep 14th '10, 01:25

In a word, Stomped. Welcome to Pfhorums, where you're lucky if your first impression is not also your last.

Edit: is that LP in your avatarlol
Last edited by irons on Sep 14th '10, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Sep 14th '10, 21:20

I have the same problem, but just with certain openings. For example, I make a hallway and when I try to walk through it it acts as a "bounce thingy" and pushes me back. So I delete and remake it in weland, and then when I try to go throughit it just acts as an invisible wall.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 15th '10, 02:56

BoBsBrother wrote:I have the same problem, but just with certain openings. For example, I make a hallway and when I try to walk through it it acts as a "bounce thingy" and pushes me back. So I delete and remake it in weland, and then when I try to go throughit it just acts as an invisible wall.


The situation you're describing is called the Invisible Polygon Line Barrier of Illogical Infinity, and it's explained on page 56 of the Marathon Infinity Manual.
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ktaur

Post Sep 15th '10, 03:35

Ok, thanks. I think I get it now. I have too many polygons coming off of one line.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 16th '10, 21:34

Treellama wrote:The "What" was mainly in reply to his being a new mapper, which I don't think is the case; and to a handful of Ne Cede Malis-esque rooms being the most interesting thing you've seen in a long time from a new mapper. I realize you're trying to be encouraging, but now all the other new mappers are in the corner sobbing.


I am not you lier. I'm POSITIVE!!!!!!
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

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