Wizard of Odd

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.

Post Sep 10th '10, 01:16

BoBsBrother wrote:Geez, a little harsh at the end are we?

Not really. I think that is some good advice.
"My advise: V" - g pack
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brilliant

Post Sep 10th '10, 01:40

BoBsBrother wrote:Geez, a little harsh at the end are we?


Only because it's important. Don't waste your time on beating yourself up, not even a second. Ignore people who do so with malice. That's all.

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Kurinn

Post Sep 10th '10, 03:03

Ok then, from now on I'm...... POSITIVE MAN!!!!!!!! Negative Man moaned, "Just get rid of me now." NO NEGATIVE MAN!!!!!! THINK POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
POSITIVE MAN ROARED, "JUST TAKE MY SIGNATURE NOW SO WHEN I'M FAMOUS YOU'LL BE RICH!!!" [MUp] [attachment=4256:Picture_8.png] [MUp]
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 11th '10, 01:45

I'm making a small scenario now, and I was wondering how to do multi-level stuff (like layered levels of floor not levels in the scenario!!!) I've tried and just can't seem to get it right.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 11th '10, 03:52

like, two polygons, one on top of the other? I'm confused as to what you want.
D?rovací tvá?í.

Fobo: I find it hard to keep a sentence down under two paragraphs.
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tehWastedJamacan
SuFu, SD

Post Sep 11th '10, 04:43

BoBsBrother wrote:I'm making a small scenario now, and I was wondering how to do multi-level stuff (like layered levels of floor not levels in the scenario!!!) I've tried and just can't seem to get it right.


I'd avoid trying that too early on. it's kind of confusing after a while. If you must try, here are a few things I think might help:

It's easiest to fill a polygon and set it's height before dragging the vertex of each corner to where you want it if the polygon might be overlapping another polygon such that it's lines are parallel and along the same coordinate on one axis or another. For this reason, it's probably better to not have a vertex from another polygon which is not connected to a given line sitting on said line, and you can guess what this means for lines which completely overlap one another. You'll try to click on one, and you'll get the other, and it's just annoying. You can overlap polygons in ways such that this is not a problem.

If one polygon is completely inside another polygon, and you try to fill it, it may not work because of the editor becoming confused which one you want to fill. If this happens, drag one or more vertices outside of the polygon which got filled first, and try again. You may have to drag your entire polygon out (not sure when this has happened to me), but remember to keep it convex.

Don't know if you've seen this already, but it's helped me in the past:
http://webwonks.org/Marathon/Forge/hastursworkshop/
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Kurinn

Post Sep 11th '10, 05:11

You should probably avoid trying to make a scenario as your first mapmaking project, it will end only in pain and suffering. Okay, a little harsh there but you get the point. If you really want to make solo levels start out simple. Try making a KTA type map, submit it here for C&C, improve upon it according to the feedback you get etc. until it's good looking and playable before attempting something more complex. Then try contributing maps to collaborative projects like the Winter and Xmas series. This may all seem like a terribly long, boring slog but Rome was not built in a day my friend. Just remember to progress slowly and naturally and not attempt anything you're not ready to complete/beyond your scope as a mapper and you'll be working on BoB's Brother's Scenario X: X: X The Re-Revolution(!) in no time at all!
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Dis

Post Sep 11th '10, 14:18

So for the multi-level polygons I just drag them over one another. And as far as making a scenario I already started on the map I already made which I explained earlier in the topic. My whole theme for it is going to be that you are in an ancient spht temple with lots of obstacles for example the maze and the teleporters. Also there are literally batallions of enemies. Overall, I hope to get at least 6 levels for it. But do you think I should hold off on it until I'm a bit more experienced?
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 11th '10, 14:44

If you want some perspective, I mapped for 3 years before I made my first upload. No need to wait that long, just understand it takes time to cultivate mapping skills. Pace yourself, and think big :)
Last edited by goran on Sep 11th '10, 14:46, edited 1 time in total.
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goran

Post Sep 11th '10, 15:24

Kurinn wrote:I'd avoid trying that too early on. it's kind of confusing after a while. If you must try, here are a few things I think might help:

It's easiest to fill a polygon and set it's height before dragging the vertex of each corner to where you want it if the polygon might be overlapping another polygon such that it's lines are parallel and along the same coordinate on one axis or another. For this reason, it's probably better to not have a vertex from another polygon which is not connected to a given line sitting on said line, and you can guess what this means for lines which completely overlap one another. You'll try to click on one, and you'll get the other, and it's just annoying. You can overlap polygons in ways such that this is not a problem.

If one polygon is completely inside another polygon, and you try to fill it, it may not work because of the editor becoming confused which one you want to fill. If this happens, drag one or more vertices outside of the polygon which got filled first, and try again. You may have to drag your entire polygon out (not sure when this has happened to me), but remember to keep it convex.


Don't you use the height manager?

1. Create one floor. Set heights. Texture.
2. Create the lines for the second floor (don't fill anything)
3. Alter the height of a polygon that connects to the new unfilled area.
4. Use the height manager to hide the current floor. (the polygon from step 3 will still be visible)
5. Fill polygons adjacent to the already filled ones and they will take on their height settings.
6. Change back the height on the polygon you used in step 3.
7. Use the height manager to view the second floor. Set heights. Texture.
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goran

Post Sep 11th '10, 16:40

G.S.10 wrote:Don't you use the height manager?

1. Create one floor. Set heights. Texture.
2. Create the lines for the second floor (don't fill anything)
3. Alter the height of a polygon that connects to the new unfilled area.
4. Use the height manager to hide the current floor. (the polygon from step 3 will still be visible)
5. Fill polygons adjacent to the already filled ones and they will take on their height settings.
6. Change back the height on the polygon you used in step 3.
7. Use the height manager to view the second floor. Set heights. Texture.


Nah, my way is quicker. I only use the height manager when I go into each level and fill in detail, lighting, objects, etc. But basically your way is how it should be done.
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Kurinn

Post Sep 11th '10, 17:16

I've honestly never heard of it, but I'll give it a try, thanks.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 12th '10, 16:04

Please succeed where I have failed and keep trying. I'm glad to see new mappers popping up, and I like it that you're willing to take advice and keep at it. While I'm not really in the position to give advice myself, I would definitely agree with the others that you should start small and get good at that before you do any huge scenario stuff. Pfhorrest has a great quote about this:

Pfhorrest wrote:Biggest tip from me, from personal experience:
- Don't announce a big project if you've never released any little ones first.

That doesn't mean not to have big eventual dreams, and you can start with a little project that might grow into a bigger one, and even say that you hope it might grow into a bigger one. But if, say, your eventual goal is a complete new 50-level TC with all new high-res everything, and you've never released a single map... it's probably best to start with a single map. You can even make it the first mission of your planned scenario, and have the intro to your story in there to hook people's interest.

But don't do anything else until you've got that one map done, released, critiqued, redone, re-released, re-critiqued, and so on as necessary until everyone is generally happy with the quality of your map.

Then you can start making a texture set to retexture that map in. Release that, listen to the critiques, redo it, re-release it, etc etc, until everyone is generally happy with the quality of your textures. Most definitely DO NOT start making tons of maps with the first version of your texture set; I can virtually guarantee that you will have to go back and retexture all those maps several times, and take it from experience, that's no fun at all.

Congratulations, you now have a nice new map in a nice new texture set. A solid start to a scenario project. You can now start on the first chapter of your scenario, using the same feedback process for your next few maps and texture sets, until you're turning out new stuff without much complaint. By that point you've probably got enough to release a solid demo, and it's safe to continue working behind closed doors if you like to do so thereafter.
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gmanyo

Post Sep 12th '10, 18:22

Thank you for the advice. I think then I will start with some simple netmaps, evolving to more complicated netmaps, and then eventually get to making small scenarios, and possibly something like a total conversion, but that will be a ways down the road for me. I have just watched the forge tutorial on YouTube and that has opened up some new ideas and techniques for me. Also, do you think that maybe taking ideas from some Halo maps would be good?
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 12th '10, 20:44

It can be. My netmaps certainly take inspiration from other first person shooters I enjoy, like Halo and Unreal Tournament. Make sure you've played a lot of Marathon maps, though. You need to look at the map from the other game with a critical eye, and be able to say with confidence whether a particular shape or technique will work in this engine.

That's not to say if the map you like has a bridge, it will never work. But you have to look at the context: is the bridge an integral focal point of the map? Do people shoot down from the bridge and walk under it frequently? If you substituted it with something the engine can do, like a teleporter or a walled-over bridge, would that disrupt the flow of that area, and/or the map in general?

Or, to put it more generally: you wouldn't imitate a map unless you thought it was good. It's good because it works. Figure out why it works, and then determine if you can make it work in Aleph One.
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Crater Creator

Post Sep 12th '10, 22:44

Ok, yeah. I would have to look out for things like that, but I think that I wouldn't copy the map exactly, just get an idea from it. Are there any other games with netmaps that I could get ideas from?
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 18th '10, 01:26

i think some texturing would be a good idea
I LIKE PIE
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Skullcleaver
LALA Land

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