BoBsBrother's Questions Thread

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.

Post Sep 29th '10, 03:17

Uh shotguns would have a clear advantage on the map basically everywhere.

So where would you place the shotguns in such a way that the map isn't made worse?

The only answer is "everywhere" since if shotguns are in very specific locations, I would just camp them and win easily. I reiterate my point from earlier.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Sep 29th '10, 04:36

Well, do you have any other advise? Say about lighting?
Last edited by BoBsBrother on Sep 29th '10, 04:40, edited 1 time in total.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 29th '10, 05:05

[attachment=4317:WelandSc...Snapz001.gif]
I think enough people have a favorable opinion of Duality to make it a useful example. Look where the shotguns are and are not. They're not in the northwest tunnel, but they are at the ends of the tunnel. They're not on the main staircases, but they are at the bottom inside those staircases. They're not on the hill itself, but they are on the perimeter. They're not in the "Sniper Room." I think these were all conscious decisions on the part of the mapmaker. There is nothing so basic as 'the shotgun spawn room,' which seems to be how my comments were interpreted. But their placement does affect the flow of the map in a positive way, as I said.

BoBsBrother: before trying to improve the lighting, I would add aesthetic details to break up the large expanses of the same texture.
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WelandScreenSnapz001.gif
WelandScreenSnapz001.gif (64.55 KiB) Viewed 3267 times
Last edited by Crater Creator on Sep 29th '10, 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Crater Creator

Post Sep 29th '10, 12:27

Crater Creator wrote:I think enough people have a favorably opinion of Duality to make it a useful example.



Look where the shotguns are and are not. They're not in the northwest tunnel, but they are at the ends of the tunnel. They're not on the main staircases, but they are at the bottom inside those staircases. They're not on the hill itself, but they are on the perimeter. They're not in the "Sniper Room." I think these were all conscious decisions on the part of the mapmaker. There is nothing so basic as 'the shotgun spawn room,' which seems to be how my comments were interpreted. But their placement does affect the flow of the map in a positive way, as I said.

They're hidden in corners and by walls, rather than being out in the open, because the old engine could display a limited number of sprites at a time. They're conscious decisions, sure, but not done for flow. A pair of shotguns on the hill, and on the stairs, and in the sniper room, wouldn't affect flow one bit.
Last edited by treellama on Sep 29th '10, 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 29th '10, 13:35

Trying to highlight Duality as an example of good mapping is a misstep from the beginning, anyway. It's one of the better stock maps, sure, but the standards are pretty low, and given how poor a lot of the other netmaps are, I actually would assume that decisions like that were just folly. As an example: who gets what based on spawn points is hideously unbalanced, and that's one of the simplest decisions to make if you actually care about item placement. To wit: in the lower right, one player gets an assault rifle; the other gets two shotguns. They didn't care.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Sep 29th '10, 17:02

BoBsBrother wrote:Well, do you have any other advise? Say about lighting?


Add some? There is not that much advise to give because you have not done much with your map. The texturing overall is bland. You have large walls with no detailing and the ceiling should be a landscape or something basic. It's not a terrible map, but it is very rudimentary. More in vein of M1 net maps.
Last edited by ellio7t on Sep 29th '10, 18:01, edited 1 time in total.
words
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ellio7t
long beach, ca no, now I live in L.A.

Post Sep 29th '10, 21:47

What I meant by advice for lighting is whether to do it in vml or weland. And also I tried a landscape, but it looks very odd up against the room at the top of the stairs. :/
I know that crater creator commented about it being littered with objects on the stairs. My original plan was having alternating ammo all the way around, but then with spawn points on the stairs, you wouldn't have a weapon to start with. I guess it was just bad judgement by me to place weapons randomly. :/
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Sep 29th '10, 22:06

If you can do differential lighting in weland then use it. I'm pretty sure it lacks a visual mode though.
words
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ellio7t
long beach, ca no, now I live in L.A.

Post Sep 30th '10, 14:49

I do my ceiling and floor lighting in weland just to get a general idea, and then do more fine-tuning and walls in vml
D?rovací tvá?í.

Fobo: I find it hard to keep a sentence down under two paragraphs.
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tehWastedJamacan
SuFu, SD

Post Oct 1st '10, 02:38

Treellama wrote:They're hidden in corners and by walls, rather than being out in the open, because the old engine could display a limited number of sprites at a time. They're conscious decisions, sure, but not done for flow. A pair of shotguns on the hill, and on the stairs, and in the sniper room, wouldn't affect flow one bit.

I doubt that was the dominant factor affecting the shotguns' placement. If it were, we'd expect to see them in the middles of the tunnels and at Loran's Gate, where visibility is minimized.

I don't want to belabor the point, though, so I'll leave it as simply as I can. Yes, you can put your items everywhere if you like, but you shouldn't put them just anywhere.
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Crater Creator

Post Oct 1st '10, 03:37

Yeah, I put way less weapons, fixed a few things, but now I have to add lighting/better texturing. I should be done with the update in the next day it so.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 2nd '10, 19:36

Heres the update to my map. I changed lighting, texturing, the name, weapon layout, etc. Again, please critique, criticize, edit, whatever.[attachment=4325:On_the_d...ide.sceA.zip]
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On_the_dark_side.sceA.zip
(23.96 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 2nd '10, 20:03

Maybe you should look at this.
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TectonInd

Post Oct 2nd '10, 22:13

Is this your way of telling me that it needs some work, or are you just wanting me to look at it? I can see some things on the list that I could do differently, but not a lot, so.... I think I'm closish to being finished.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 3rd '10, 01:49

BoBsBrother wrote:Is this your way of telling me that it needs some work, or are you just wanting me to look at it? I can see some things on the list that I could do differently, but not a lot, so.... I think I'm closish to being finished.


Probably a bit of both ;)

There are a couple things I do not particularly like in the map, mostly the absurdly deep pits filled with sewage that can only be escaped via lift.
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TectonInd

Post Oct 3rd '10, 04:05

Oh, ok. Anything else? Is the lighting okay?
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 9th '10, 00:52

Here is the new update. I fixed the huge pits and changed them to 1.5 wu.[attachment=4347:On_the_d...ide.sceA.zip]
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On_the_dark_side.sceA.zip
(32.75 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 10th '10, 22:00

Here is a new map I made that will soon go into a map pack that coolfusion and I are making in collaboration. Again, please review, rate, comment, critique, criticize, etc. Whatever is needed to get your point across. Also, you could look at the previous post of mine and check out that map too. ;D Hope you enjoy! I took more time and pride in this one that the last, so hopefully you don't catch any mistakes....[attachment=4358:_XL__Ber...cle.sceA.zip]
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_XL__Bermuda_Circle.sceA.zip
(26.48 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 10th '10, 23:01

  • Again, you have quickly adopted a lot of the important principles. I think you can go far in mapmaking.
  • It's overall too big. I like large maps, but there's this feeling of the structures being islands separated by tracts of open ground. If this is the [XL] version of the map, I'd probably prefer to play the medium or large version. I would simply scrunch the structures you have closer together, with less land between them. Unless you're going to radically change the weapons, as it is now it would be pretty easy to dodge even bullets.
  • The blue room at the north end needs better flow. There's only one exit, so once you enter it's a dead end. I would put a teleporter around where the Flechette is, but that may not work since you have another teleporter that takes you to this room.
  • The stairs up into the north blue room should be wider. If someone killed me just because I stumbled halfway through running up those stairs, it would feel like a cheap kill.
  • You did a good job with the framerate. Running in OpenGL Classic, it stayed at 30 fps, which surprised me for a map of this size. It's probably all those pillars of negative space that help keep it smooth.
  • Don't put items *right* at the very edges of polygons, or there are likely to be visual glitches. See the alien weapon for an example.
  • It's interesting that you have two similar hill-shaped areas with 4 pillars positioned at opposite ends of the map. Did you have bigger plans for these?
  • While it doesn't affect gameplay, it looks a bit sloppy that the bridge over the water at the west end uses 5-D space. You should add a step up so you don't have two polygons occupying the same volume in space.
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Crater Creator

Post Oct 11th '10, 00:42

Thanks for the advice once again. I think I will eliminate some of open space to make it smaller and also widen the stairs. And I guess the weapons could be moved a tad especially the alien gun as you mentioned. The only reason I have a teleporter to the north sniper room is because otherwise it would be too easy to camp especially with a rocket launcher, an smg, and a health canister all nearby. :/ I don't know wether to try a teleporter in there, but as you said it may not work. I guess it is worth a shot. As far as the pillar structures, I really didn't have any plans for them, it was just more of a space filler, as otherwise it would have too much open space. If I slim down the size I might consider demolishing the pyramid one. 5d space. I'm frankly not familiar with it, so I really don't know what you're talking about. Sorry. Was the overall appearance/texturing and lighting okay? Was it too complex? Too simple?
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 13th '10, 02:08

Here is the new updated map.[attachment=4364:_L__Berm...cle.sceA.zip] Please review, etc. You get the idea.
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_L__Bermuda_Circle.sceA.zip
(18.79 KiB) Downloaded 71 times
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Oct 16th '10, 20:04

Better. As I said, I would have kept the structures you had and pushed them all closer together, so that the ratio of mostly flat ground to interesting spaces would decrease. But this is an improvement.
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Crater Creator

Post Oct 17th '10, 13:54

I know I'm going to leave the bridge out and incorporate it in a different level. And I added another "gazebo" type thing to replace the pyramid/window room. And you're saying I should put these back?
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

Post Jan 5th '11, 22:50

Due to reviews and comments on S7 about my two maps, Bermuda Circle and On the Dark Side (Weight Watchers), I have decided to trash On the Dark Side as it is a "crappy" map. However, I will reignite my mapping skills after being on "temporary leave" (Call of Duty) by giving Bermuda Circle a spruce up/fine tune. I would greatly appreciate your input on what needs to be changed as far as flow and lighting etc. because I am not an expert. And if you need to download it to see you will have to make the HUGE journey through cyberspace to S7.
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BoBsBrother
Kearney, Nebraska

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