kray-Z map/pm/lua contest

Marathon related contests and tournaments.

Post Aug 20th '11, 22:08

W wrote:Nailed it!

Amazing! I love it!
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brilliant

Post Aug 21st '11, 01:12

Chocolateer wrote:Here is my submission for the contest


that's an interesting idea. it's a little on the "normal" side though, this could actually work as a serious net map. I might suggest four things:

- make the 'arrows' a little thicker, or at least use another fake liquid to make them thicker on the map. they're just a tad hard to see when zoomed out far.

- use an embedded physics model that lets all shots penetrate liquids so you can always shoot through a field no matter what weapon you're holding. right now whoever's holding the kkv has a serious advantage.

- disable/change the liquid sound effects in the mml. the lava blurble-bloop noise doesn't really work.

- perhaps change the textures on the floor of the arrows maybe? like use that red texture from the lava set, or the yellow one if you want to stick with jjarro. something that really stands out.
Last edited by quartz on Aug 21st '11, 01:19, edited 1 time in total.
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quartz

Post Aug 21st '11, 01:14

W wrote:Nailed it!


har :)
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quartz

Post Aug 21st '11, 01:17

quartz wrote:- disable/change the liquid sound effects in the mml. the lava blurble-bloop noise doesn't really work.


it's too bad you can't embed sounds in a map. it would be awesome to steal the "ran over a speed boost" sound from some video game, like sonic or f-zero.
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quartz

Post Aug 21st '11, 02:47

Compulsory Exemption v1.0


Neat, though that elevator up to the shotgun with only one way in or out is a premiere camping spot. Also the ammo seems to regenerate almost instantly, worsening the value to leave.
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Post Aug 21st '11, 03:10

Having to switch to KKV could introduce something interesting (however minor) to the gameplay and the big advantage/disadvantage problem would be remedied by placing way more weapons and ammo, which he's going to have to do anyway if the map has any chance of being playable.
Last edited by Dis on Aug 21st '11, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Dis

Post Aug 21st '11, 08:23

Dis wrote:Having to switch to KKV


there really isn't any "switch to" though is the problem. since there are forcefields all over the map and the kkv is the only weapon that can shoot through them, all the other weapons are gimped and there's basically no reason to use them. the zeus is especially annoying- in addition to being a tough weapon to use in general, now it's even worse because if you happen to fire a shot while inside one of the fields you'll nail yourself.

maybe if you modded the physics to switch weapons instantaneously or something, but that has its own issues. the only other thing I can think of is retexturing things in such a way that you know when you're coming up on a field ahead of time, and that it'll take you slightly longer to get there than to switch weapons. that's getting pretty stretched though, I think just having all shots fire through liquids is a lot easier.
Last edited by quartz on Aug 21st '11, 08:26, edited 1 time in total.
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quartz

Post Aug 21st '11, 15:14

quartz wrote:- make the 'arrows' a little thicker, or at least use another fake liquid to make them thicker on the map. they're just a tad hard to see when zoomed out far.

I cannot make the arrows thicker without the risk of the player falling into the hole. I could use a fake liquid like you suggest to make them triangles instead, but I think that would cause smearing on the floor/ceiling. I could try using mml to make the color of the liquid brighter on the map.

quartz wrote:- use an embedded physics model that lets all shots penetrate liquids so you can always shoot through a field no matter what weapon you're holding. right now whoever's holding the kkv has a serious advantage.

I was under the impression that it's bad form to embed a physics file in a netmap. Is this not the case?

quartz wrote:- disable/change the liquid sound effects in the mml. the lava blurble-bloop noise doesn't really work.

The lava sound is a lot better than the other liquids, and I prefer it to nothing at all. I can investigate if there are any other sounds in the standard shapes file that might work better.

quartz wrote:- perhaps change the textures on the floor of the arrows maybe? like use that red texture from the lava set, or the yellow one if you want to stick with jjarro. something that really stands out.

I'm already using the yellow texture for the walls, so I don't want to use it for the arrows too. I don't usually like mixing texture sets, but I suppose I can at least try the red lava texture to see what it looks like.

Zott wrote:Neat, though that elevator up to the shotgun with only one way in or out is a premiere camping spot. Also the ammo seems to regenerate almost instantly, worsening the value to leave.

When I was testing the map the shotgun ammo wasn't regenerating as fast as I would have liked so I really cranked the numbers up. I didn't really consider camping, though. I'll likely end up tweaking the numbers some more at some point.

quartz wrote:the only other thing I can think of is retexturing things in such a way that you know when you're coming up on a field ahead of time, and that it'll take you slightly longer to get there than to switch weapons. that's getting pretty stretched though, I think just having all shots fire through liquids is a lot easier.

The strobe lighting indicates that a force field is ahead, and if you are really observant you'd also notice that the cutouts in the middle of the floor/ceiling with the space landscape 'point' to where the force fields are too. I don't think there's any more that I can do in the way of texturing than what I've already done.
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Chocolateer

Post Aug 21st '11, 21:01

Chocolateer wrote:I cannot make the arrows thicker without the risk of the player falling into the hole. I could use a fake liquid like you suggest to make them triangles instead, but I think that would cause smearing on the floor/ceiling.


wait.... what?

::looks at map::

why are you still using the 'super deep hole' trick? does anyone even play with the 'transparent liquids' option turned off?



Chocolateer wrote:I was under the impression that it's bad form to embed a physics file in a netmap. Is this not the case?

I think when people say this what they're talking about is no "newb" physics that make your pistols shoot spht bolts and crap like that. I don't think the issue is relevant in this case for two reasons:

1) the physics would be correcting the behavior to act more like normal.
2) this is a competition for wacky mods- the 'no physics' rule wouldn't even apply here anyway.


Chocolateer wrote:The lava sound is a lot better than the other liquids, and I prefer it to nothing at all. I can investigate if there are any other sounds in the standard shapes file that might work better.

you could try the teleporter bump sound or something, that's a related concept. the s'pht'kr-bolt noises might work too. I could pick out a few if you want suggestions.

Chocolateer wrote:I didn't really consider camping, though.

a trick I've seen used before is to put a secret crushing platform in the camping spot with like a 10 sec delay-before-activate.

Chocolateer wrote:The strobe lighting indicates that a force field is ahead, and if you are really observant you'd also notice that the cutouts in the middle of the floor/ceiling with the space landscape 'point' to where the force fields are too. I don't think there's any more that I can do in the way of texturing than what I've already done.

I did see all that, but what I meant was like a thin yellow line inscribed the corridor, placed just far enough out so that if you switch weapons right as you pass it you can have the kkv ready before you hit the liquid. again though I think this is not the best solution and still vote for fixing it in physics.
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quartz

Post Aug 21st '11, 23:50

We had a 5 player game on it and "gimping" of the other weapons wasn't a problem insofar as they weren't gimped by rarity of ammo. The Fusion Pistol sucks on almost any netmap, making it not hurt you under liquids isn't going to change that here. I'm not in any way opposed to making all the weapons cross the liquid boundary, I'm saying that's really not the core problem.
Edit: Also, most of the combat didn't occur "across" the liquid boundary (on different sides of the gate).
Last edited by Dis on Aug 21st '11, 23:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Aug 23rd '11, 07:04

Calle de Las Sombras

Timmy fell down a hole. Can you help him escape?

-------

How to play should be self explanatory. I hope you enjoy it. Second zip just has the split files for those who don't want to split it themselves. You can also use the files to make a game of hide and seek in multiplayer.
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Last edited by Zott on Aug 23rd '11, 21:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Aug 23rd '11, 07:26

Zott wrote:Calle de Las Sombras

Timmy fell down a hole. Can you help him escape?

-------

How to play should be self explanatory. I hope you enjoy it. Second zip just has the split files for those who don't want to split it themselves.

That's pretty cool. After I went past the first save point, it kept crashing, though.

EDIT: Does it have any specific requirements? I was using the stable build of Aleph One.
Last edited by brilliant on Aug 23rd '11, 07:37, edited 1 time in total.
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brilliant

Post Aug 23rd '11, 07:31

Zott wrote:Timmy fell down a hole. Can you help him escape?

I was able to finish it, but where's Timmy?
Last edited by President People on Aug 23rd '11, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
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President People

Post Aug 23rd '11, 08:35

I was able to finish it, but where's Timmy?


Spoiler Alert: You're Timmy.

Not sure why it would crash, I was using Beta 4 on Shader, seems to work fine for me. Tested the stable build and it also seemed to work fine. Could be something to do with transparent polygons? You view over quite a bit in those last rooms.
Last edited by Zott on Aug 23rd '11, 21:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Aug 24th '11, 14:30

I messed around with this, and I'm having trouble too.

- I don't understand the reasoning behind the 'nil' sound effect. why bother with a silent sound file, just disable the sound(s) you care about in the mml.

- the sound file isn't quite right, I get a lot of random clicks and pops when playing.

- when a pfhor shoots me, he also dies for no clear reason.

- when I die, my fist doesn't disappear.

- I can get to what I think is the end (an alcove with a switch in it), but then things get weird. the switch doesn't appear to be connected to anything (visualmode.lua says it controls platform 2, which is the first door at the start point....?) and when I walk into the alcove I get "an error has occurred when attempting to read from your map". weland says it's a teleporter to level 255 which should end the game, but something's not working right. there don't appear to be any other levels in the map file.

it's an interesting idea though. I think if you changed things around so that it was a net game set in a disco parlor, it could be a lot more fun and have a good shot at winning the contest.
Last edited by quartz on Aug 24th '11, 14:30, edited 1 time in total.
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quartz

Post Aug 24th '11, 14:32

quartz wrote:I think if you changed things around so that it was a net game set in a disco parlor, it could be a lot more fun and have a good shot at winning the contest.

in fact, if you don't do this I might steal your idea and try it myself at some point.
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quartz

Post Aug 24th '11, 17:48

Zott wrote:Calle de Las Sombras

Timmy fell down a hole. Can you help him escape?

-------

How to play should be self explanatory. I hope you enjoy it. Second zip just has the split files for those who don't want to split it themselves. You can also use the files to make a game of hide and seek in multiplayer.


This is a very good concept! I'm reminded of Metal Gear Solid. I really think you should refine this. There are a few things that came to mind while playing:
  • I agree that the disabling of the sound should be through merged mml.
  • I was able to kill an alien and move on, rather than avoiding being spotted by him.
  • It could use polishing up with the texturing. A lot of it is just paved, so I'm just going to assume you're not done yet.
  • I get a weird blur effect when dropping down at the beginning. It looks like you may be dropping the player from too high.
  • I'm not a fan of how run is disabled. I think you should allow run, that way you can have a fuller range of difficulty in terms of the obstacles. You could have ones that work better with walk (slower; precision-based), as well as ones that require run (faster; speed-based). Plus walking all the time is just too slow.
  • A terminal in the first room with gameplay explanation might be nice (I realize there's a readme, but consider whether or not you might like something more self-contained).
  • I got to the end of the map and hit the switch, but nothing happened. Is something supposed to happen? It might be cool if platforms came down and crushed all of the aliens, or lava or pfhor goo came flooding in to burn them. Take your pick.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Aug 24th '11, 18:16

- I don't understand the reasoning behind the 'nil' sound effect. why bother with a silent sound file, just disable the sound(s) you care about in the mml.
- the sound file isn't quite right, I get a lot of random clicks and pops when playing.
I wasn't sure how to silence sounds in mml alone. Could you give me a tip? Sound file is completely empty, may have to do with Aleph One/Sound Device.

- when a pfhor shoots me, he also dies for no clear reason.

Fixed, though let it be known that the Pfhor are explosive so you don't punch your way through the map.

- when I die, my fist doesn't disappear.
This is an unintended artifact. I was originally thinking of making a net game and so wanted the player to not be able to snipe from the shadows at other players, being limited to only fists, but the weapon selecting lua apparently still works after death. I've removed it since it doesn't matter for single-player. (Otherwise I'd probably have to do a death check))

- Useless Switch


Fixed, should have been lvl 256 that ends properly.

disco parlor

Considering it was your idea to do a Disco Parlor, go right ahead. I'm not sure what I would do that wouldn't end up like COLORSPEACK.

Otherwise, I'll see what refinements I can make.
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Zott
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Post Aug 24th '11, 19:09

Zott wrote:I wasn't sure how to silence sounds in mml alone. Could you give me a tip?

specifiy "-1" instead of a slot or file.

<sound type="0" which="-1" />

Zott wrote:I'm not sure what I would do that wouldn't end up like COLORSPEACK.

I was thinking like an actual disco parlor, with textures and stuff.
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quartz

Post Aug 25th '11, 08:29

specifiy "-1" instead of a slot or file.


I tried this before and it did not work, and I tried it again, and I still can't seem to get it to work.

<sounds>
<sound index="19" slot="0" file="-1" />
</sounds>

Should work right? But I've also tried -1 under slot, and even tried the notation you provided and yet the sound still plays?
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Zott
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Post Aug 25th '11, 08:42

Zott wrote:Should work right?

no, you're not reading what the mml guide says. look again at the table up top where it talks about attributes.

<marathon>
<sounds got_powerup="-1" />
</marathon>

Zott wrote:even tried the notation you provided

that was a generic example since I didn't know exactly what sound(s) you were trying to modify.
Last edited by quartz on Aug 25th '11, 08:43, edited 1 time in total.
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quartz

Post Aug 29th '11, 07:59

Changed a couple things thanks to the feedback. Otherwise all the puzzles are exactly the same. Probably won't do anything else, limited time (Also feature creep). I was going to add a guard patrolling with a flashlight but it proved out of my technical expertise to make the monster follow the path I wanted and match up with the lighting effects (Easily distracted Bobs...).

Following the MGS mind-set; I had an idea where there are 3D cameras with very narrow fields of view that rotate by Lua but cannot move otherwise. All other guards then would be set off by the audible activation sound the camera makes, but blind otherwise. Not sure if that would be technically viable like I would expect (testing, gotta do testin'). Not kray-Z enough either.

Disco - If you ever get around to it Quartz I think Animated textures would be very useful for making the floor look just right. The problem is getting the lighting and pattern to not look stale as it repeats.
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