POLL: Current state of Marathon and the community

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What is the current state of Marathon and the community?

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Total votes : 20

Re: POLL: Current state of Marathon and the community

Post Dec 24th '17, 07:04

Spec wrote:Pardon me, but isn't some outreach with the doom sourceport community possible, they have some talented coders and I'm sure a few would be willing to work on something new.

Sounds like a wet dream

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RadBurn
Baltimore

Post Dec 26th '17, 00:55

You know, zMarathon is starting to sound more appealing than Aleph One at this rate.
Aleph One isn't good enough. It isn't future-proofed, it upholds flippant standards from a bygone era of computing, and its development shows no promise or enthusiasm. For the longest time, it couldn't even play the original Marathon files, it needed the community to pick up the slack to make M1A1. It needs to replaced.
Has no one thought of reverse engineering the Xbox 360 game and porting its engine to PC? I mean, if you have access to the raw bitmaps in that game, why don't you have the source code yet? I might be misinformed on this, but didn't Treellama work with Freeverse on Marathon: Durandal for Xbox 360? I won't pretend to know a single thing about Apple hardware, but isn't the Xbox 360 a PowerPC system, not that unlike the PowerPC architecture in a PowerMac? The very type of hardware that Marathon 2 and Infinity were made for? Really gets my noggin' joggin'. There's my two cents.
Flippant Sol

Post Dec 26th '17, 03:23

I'm glad this thread continues to be as amazing as I expected it to be when I created it almost 2 years ago.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Dec 26th '17, 08:19

Didn't Aleph One have bridge support that was taken out for "authenticity"? I'd like to keep A1 but maybe make it a tad more robust; feels weird that you would need an older version of it to do more. (Historical scenario Blauwe Vingers does some awesome stuff that I'm not sure would be supported by the current A1)

Wouldn't mind seeing some Doom II-engine Marathon fan-things, though.
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Dec 26th '17, 17:21

Flippant Sol wrote:You know, zMarathon is starting to sound more appealing than Aleph One at this rate.
Aleph One isn't good enough. It isn't future-proofed, it upholds flippant standards from a bygone era of computing, and its development shows no promise or enthusiasm. For the longest time, it couldn't even play the original Marathon files, it needed the community to pick up the slack to make M1A1. It needs to replaced.
Has no one thought of reverse engineering the Xbox 360 game and porting its engine to PC? I mean, if you have access to the raw bitmaps in that game, why don't you have the source code yet? I might be misinformed on this, but didn't Treellama work with Freeverse on Marathon: Durandal for Xbox 360? I won't pretend to know a single thing about Apple hardware, but isn't the Xbox 360 a PowerPC system, not that unlike the PowerPC architecture in a PowerMac? The very type of hardware that Marathon 2 and Infinity were made for? Really gets my noggin' joggin'. There's my two cents.

I guess what I'd say to that is if Aleph One was two times better, would it even matter? Would that actually attract new players? I dunno. It seems as though if someone is mildly interested in retro FPS, they're already married to Doom and Quake and usually don't play much else.
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Flowers

Post Dec 26th '17, 20:02

Flowers wrote:I guess what I'd say to that is if Aleph One was two times better, would it even matter? Would that actually attract new players? I dunno. It seems as though if someone is mildly interested in retro FPS, they're already married to Doom and Quake and usually don't play much else.

Make Marathon more well known. Tell your friends about it. Recommend it to people. Advocate for Marathon. Make it sound like more than just another Doom clone. Come on, people.
Flippant Sol

Post Dec 26th '17, 20:26

Flippant Sol wrote:Make Marathon more well known. Tell your friends about it. Recommend it to people. Advocate for Marathon. Make it sound like more than just another Doom clone. Come on, people.


I will try! Unless I get lazy again.

I told my big brother about it but he didn't like it. He's not a story person and that could be a problem for us as well. Not everyone can follow the story of any game.
Screamernail

Post Dec 26th '17, 20:59

A while ago I showed the first (and later second) game to Dad, who's a Call of Duty fiend. He wasn't impressed by the "cardboard cutout" enemies nor did he have the patience to read the terminals. :/

I'm sure there's plenty of folks out there who don't normally play FPSes but do like story; they can be pointed towards the Story Page. (That was actually how I learned more about Marathon long before I started actually playing the games)
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Dec 26th '17, 22:00

General-RADIX wrote:I'm sure there's plenty of folks out there who don't normally play FPSes but do like story; they can be pointed towards the Story Page.

Good idea. These people will for sure be inspired to overhaul the engine to add all the new cool stuff people want.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Dec 26th '17, 23:35

Wrkncacnter wrote:add all the new cool stuff people want.

What do the people want though? Bridges? Higher FPS? Cake?
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Flowers

Post Dec 26th '17, 23:36

I have no idea, I'm just trying to follow the logic in this thread.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Dec 27th '17, 01:12

Nihil sub sole novum est.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Dec 27th '17, 09:31

Flowers wrote:
Wrkncacnter wrote:add all the new cool stuff people want.

What do the people want though? Bridges? Higher FPS? Cake?


I think it needs an artistic overhaul of level geometry and sprites more than it needs engine improvements, but that's quite a lot of work... work I dabble in from time to time, and our collective dabblings have produced some amazing work in new textures. There's even room for improvement in textures: although now we have many in beautiful high resolution, many lack bump and glow mapping. Which reminds me, I really ought to share some of the bump maps I've made, they do wonders for liquids.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Dec 27th '17, 17:50

ravenshining wrote:I think it needs an artistic overhaul of level geometry and sprites more than it needs engine improvements, but that's quite a lot of work... work I dabble in from time to time, and our collective dabblings have produced some amazing work in new textures. There's even room for improvement in textures: although now we have many in beautiful high resolution, many lack bump and glow mapping. Which reminds me, I really ought to share some of the bump maps I've made, they do wonders for liquids.

Does Gorans textures not have bump and glow maps or am I incorrect?
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Flowers

Post Dec 28th '17, 01:14

Things I would like :
- to beat Infinity without a guide
- complete set of modern editing tools
- make a bad ass total conversion scenario that I would be proud of
- Yuge 2
- Yuge 3

Things I ask for :
-

Things I am going to work on myself :
-

Things I am thankful for :
- source code release
- talented and generous volunteers donating their time to make Aleph One possible on modern computers across various systems
- some modern editing tools
- loads of available content to alter gameplay made by some serious fans
- Marathon having more of a cult following than mainsteam following
- watching Marathon Infinity on Games Done Quick

Has Marathon had a great long run?
- Yes

Is it dead?
- Just about

What will happen to Marathon in a year? Two years? 7 years?
- Internet Archive: Wayback Machine

What will people do if Marathon dies?
( hint ) Pick one
- 1) be obsessively nostalgic, lofty, and wishful
- 2) actually take on rolls needed to revive it instead of just throwing out ideas on how to do things
- 3) say your goodbyes, move on and cherish the good memories. maybe even stay in touch occasionally

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RadBurn
Baltimore

Post Dec 28th '17, 10:12

I made this little thingy a while back, and I'm damn proud of it because I think that everyone in the world deserves to appreciate Pathways into Darkness: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bxm8qv3ObDeLY1ZkMVYwdUYxZGs?usp=sharing (Windows only)

People have always said that Aleph One's mouse input is garbage, and then they think the original game was like that. Right now, I can open up Basilisk II and play Marathon, but I wouldn't want to. Why? Because the mouse starts spazzing out and flies all over the place.

Right now, in this current gaming industry, people desperately want good netcode and good user interface. Make things intuitive and smooth, and people will want to play it.

Fix it. Fix it, fix it, fix it! Forget about bugs, you already have the Works on My Machine!™ rating. I understand it's not real 3D, and it never will be, but if the aim could any where as good as Half Life, or even just ZDoom, I think you would be lifting a heavy barrier to entry for a lot of people.

TL:DR; Aleph One needs better mouse aim, the rest will come from natural intuition.
Flippant Sol

Post Dec 28th '17, 15:58

So your plan is to have us recommend an embarrassingly old and shitty game to people we know in real life, and that will attract a developer that's willing to fix mouse aim?
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Wrkncacnter

Post Dec 28th '17, 16:52

Wrkncacnter wrote:So your plan is to have us recommend an embarrassingly old and shitty game to people we know in real life, and that will attract a developer that's willing to fix mouse aim?

Bad reading comprehension makes me laugh.
Flippant Sol

Post Dec 28th '17, 17:06

Flippant Sol wrote:Make Marathon more well known. Tell your friends about it. Recommend it to people. Advocate for Marathon. Make it sound like more than just another Doom clone. Come on, people.

Flippant Sol wrote:Right now, in this current gaming industry, people desperately want good netcode and good user interface. Make things intuitive and smooth, and people will want to play it.
...
TL:DR; Aleph One needs better mouse aim, the rest will come from natural intuition.

Flippant Sol wrote:Fix it. Fix it, fix it, fix it!


The problem isn't my reading comprehension, it's that you're making no sense. You want us to recommend a game that you yourself admit has flaws that currently prevent new people from wanting to play it. How do you expect that to work out?

Without being able to attract new people to the game, how do you expect to find a developer that will Fix it. Fix it, fix it, fix it!?

I guess I'm assuming that you're unwilling to fix these problems yourself, because in the past, the people that complain the loudest are never actually willing to do anything about it themselves. Apologies if this assumption is incorrect.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Dec 29th '17, 01:14

Flippant Sol wrote:Fix it. Fix it, fix it, fix it!

Wrkncacnter wrote:I guess I'm assuming that you're unwilling to fix these problems yourself, because in the past, the people that complain the loudest are never actually willing to do anything about it themselves. Apologies if this assumption is incorrect.

This has become the current state of Aleph One progress.

Flippant Sol wrote:TL:DR; Aleph One needs better mouse aim, the rest will come from natural intuition.

Filppant, if you are so passionate about this then go create an account at the Doom forums and make a pitch. Perhaps a coder there will take up your offer and possibly end up making a branching version of Aleph One. It could be awesome. You won't know until you try.
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RadBurn
Baltimore

Post Dec 29th '17, 02:24

RadBurn wrote:Is it dead?
- Just about

What will happen to Marathon in a year? Two years? 7 years?
- Internet Archive: Wayback Machine

What will people do if Marathon dies?


There will always be Marathon. Perhaps not under the bright lights of Broadway but, if you go into the slum back alleys and basements where love is costly, life is cheap, and carnage the only reality, you’ll find the Marathoneers. Those who don’t care if their cape makes them look fat. Those who don’t spend half their time in a social bazaar. Those who don’t spend thirty minutes trying to decide to use the gloves of grief or the gauntlets of gain. Those who don’t care what color their shotgun is, only that it works. Those who open a chest with a grenade. Those not inspired by loot but who think simply staying alive is reward enough. There you will find them wreaking death and destruction throughout all of space and time.


Marathon is free. You don’t need the internet: you don’t need to use up tons of bandwidth to play, just your computer. It often accompanies refurbished used computers either already loaded or on a game CD or DVD with some basic instruction on how to play. No installation required: just copy the folders to your computer and you’re ready for carnage.

This website is important even if not bustling with activity. A person who develops an interest in Marathon will eventually arrive here. They leave their mark and return periodically to see if there’s been an answer, etc.
Though we seem’d dead, we did but sleepe: aduantage is a better Souldier than rashnesse.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Dec 29th '17, 02:38

HelviusRufus wrote:Perhaps not under the bright lights of Broadway but, if you go into the slum back alleys and basements where love is costly, life is cheap, and carnage the only reality, you’ll find the Marathoneers. Those who don’t care if their cape makes them look fat. Those who don’t spend half their time in a social bazaar. Those who don’t spend thirty minutes trying to decide to use the gloves of grief or the gauntlets of gain. Those who don’t care what color their shotgun is, only that it works. Those who open a chest with a grenade. Those not inspired by loot but who think simply staying alive is reward enough. There you will find them wreaking death and destruction throughout all of space and time.

Sounds like something you've personally experienced...
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Flowers

Post Dec 29th '17, 05:05

RadBurn wrote:
Flippant Sol wrote:Fix it. Fix it, fix it, fix it!

Wrkncacnter wrote:I guess I'm assuming that you're unwilling to fix these problems yourself, because in the past, the people that complain the loudest are never actually willing to do anything about it themselves. Apologies if this assumption is incorrect.

This has become the current state of Aleph One progress.

Flippant Sol wrote:TL:DR; Aleph One needs better mouse aim, the rest will come from natural intuition.

Filppant, if you are so passionate about this then go create an account at the Doom forums and make a pitch. Perhaps a coder there will take up your offer and possibly end up making a branching version of Aleph One. It could be awesome. You won't know until you try.


I'm not telling anyone to fix anything. I want to be the person fixing it. It's just that I lack the technical intuition to accomplish anything of my own volition. Surely, one of the continuing developers of Aleph One could give me a rundown and set me on my merry way, and they could resume their own work, but from what I've gathered in this thread, you make it sound like there ARE no continuing developers of Aleph One, in which case, why have a Git page?

I would love to make a fork of Aleph One, but I refuse to seek the support of anything Doom-related, out of sheer feudalism.

Three things my fork of Aleph One would have:
-An NSIS installer
-Preconfigured settings
-Improved mouse aim

Right now, I'm contemplating it. Let me know if anyone has some insight or valuable information or skills.
Flippant Sol

Post Dec 29th '17, 05:30

Flippant Sol wrote:Let me know if anyone has some insight or valuable information or skills.

I guess my first piece of advice would be to do some research on why an open source project would have a git page, regardless of whether there are current active developers or not.

Overall, I think you just need to be willing to dedicate a significant amount of your free time toward improving the marathon engine, and be willing to research and learn things on your own.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jan 24th '18, 15:23

Probably not a big deal to anyone but I'm checking out of here. No real reason other than it doesn't net me anything other than burning time. I feel like my interest in Marathon is gone. Big thanks to Flowers and ravenshining for helping to get my project out the door.

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RadBurn
Baltimore

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