The Stupid Questions Thread.

Pfhorums news can be found here. Have a question or suggestion for the Pfhorums? Ask it here.

Re: The Stupid Questions Thread.

Post Apr 19th '16, 15:44

I've got some questions.

Why are the meatserver stats so bad? I played a 5 hour game last night, and it didn't even get recorded. Was it not long enough? Also, after the first few minutes, I couldn't find anyone. People must have gone OOS or something, and then it left me to wander around for almost 5 hours trying to find others. What's up with that?
User avatar

Wrkncacnter

Post Apr 19th '16, 19:16

philtron wrote:The community's opinion is probably that you should try to implement these changes yourself, somehow, otherwise they're not going to happen.

I think the ability to reload will be easy to implement (hint: lua), but the others will require a bit of modification to the source to implement. Aleph One doesn't happen to use a widget toolkit (wxWidgets, GTK, ect.), does it?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post May 3rd '16, 19:50

Why aren't weapons bound to individual keys yet? Is there a LUA script anywhere for that?
After playing Marathon Phoenix, I found myself constantly switching weapons, except having to remember that the crossbow is three scrolls down from the Fusion Cannon only to find out I was wrong, is just a waste of time. It'd be an immense quality of life improvement if I could press '3' to equip my AR and '5' to equip my SPNKR instead of flipping through all my weapons while I'm being shot at.
Is everyone really that used to NextWeapon/PrevWeapon switching that in the 16 years of Aleph One development, this has crossed nobody's mind?
Tunaspirit

Post May 3rd '16, 21:13

I prefer cycling, to be honest.
User avatar

irons
(.Y.)

Post May 4th '16, 00:01

Of course weapon switching has been considered, along with a host of other actions that require additional keys. This could be done in a handful of lines of Lua, if you could bind additional keys to scripts. The issue is that the engine was built around a specific number of inputs and was not designed for extensibility at all. Nobody has overhauled all the engine components necessary to support more keys.

Aleph One's multiplayer works by sending every player's inputs to all machines, and processing the results of those inputs locally. This means every key that affects gameplay has to be part of the network protocol (which has no extra room for new keys, because of course it doesn't). So you're not just adding a key, you're redesigning the network communication, and the structures that store those inputs.

Film playback also stores and plays back inputs in the same fashion, so you have to redesign the film format as well. If you want to play back any films from before that time, which Aleph One definitely does, then you need code to handle both the older format and your new one.

If anyone wants to rewrite the input packing and the network protocol and the film format, then great, there's a lot of awesome stuff we could add. Nobody so far has had the time, motivation, and programming ability needed to extend the engine in that way.
User avatar

Hopper

Post May 4th '16, 03:26

Weapon keys isn't a bad idea at all. Although I admit, I do prefer cycling, there are times when I want things a bit more direct. That's where the numbers come in.
Hopper wrote:Film playback also stores and plays back inputs in the same fashion, so you have to redesign the film format as well. If you want to play back any films from before that time, which Aleph One definitely does, then you need code to handle both the older format and your new one.

Have you considered changing playback to instead just save the file as a standard video (mov, mkv, ogv, ect.). That will also make uploading youtube vids & live streams easier.
Hopper wrote:If anyone wants to rewrite the input packing and the network protocol and the film format, then great, there's a lot of awesome stuff we could add. Nobody so far has had the time, motivation, and programming ability needed to extend the engine in that way.

I'm willing to learn if you're willing to teach.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post May 5th '16, 12:00

Hopper wrote:Of course weapon switching has been considered, along with a host of other actions that require additional keys. This could be done in a handful of lines of Lua, if you could bind additional keys to scripts. The issue is that the engine was built around a specific number of inputs and was not designed for extensibility at all. Nobody has overhauled all the engine components necessary to support more keys.

Aleph One's multiplayer works by sending every player's inputs to all machines, and processing the results of those inputs locally. This means every key that affects gameplay has to be part of the network protocol (which has no extra room for new keys, because of course it doesn't). So you're not just adding a key, you're redesigning the network communication, and the structures that store those inputs.

Film playback also stores and plays back inputs in the same fashion, so you have to redesign the film format as well. If you want to play back any films from before that time, which Aleph One definitely does, then you need code to handle both the older format and your new one.

If anyone wants to rewrite the input packing and the network protocol and the film format, then great, there's a lot of awesome stuff we could add. Nobody so far has had the time, motivation, and programming ability needed to extend the engine in that way.

older code sure has its quirks
Tunaspirit

Post May 5th '16, 17:51

3371-Alpha wrote:Have you considered changing playback to instead just save the file as a standard video (mov, mkv, ogv, ect.). That will also make uploading youtube vids & live streams easier.

Video export is such a good idea, I went back in time and added it to Aleph One a couple years ago. Hold down Option when you choose Replay Last/Saved Film, and you'll be prompted to save a WebM movie suitable for YouTube. Let the film play out (it will play without sound, and slowly on an older machine) and you'll have a portable movie once it's done.

Films as recorded keystrokes have a number of advantages, so we will not be abandoning them. The file sizes are orders of magnitude smaller, so you can save hundreds of films without worrying about disk space. Rendering video is CPU intensive, so trying to do that while playing could lag your game. Multiplayer films have every player's actions stored, so you can switch viewpoints at will -- you'd need up to 8 synchronized videos to get the same effect. Last but not least, you can re-render the same film with different graphics settings, so you can create a higher-resolution movie (or one with bloom, etc.) later even if you didn't play with those settings originally. I use this quite a lot when tracking down graphics bugs: I record a film and play it back under different renderers to see which ones show the problem.

3371-Alpha wrote:I'm willing to learn if you're willing to teach.

Lua scripting is a surprisingly good way to learn the engine. The API is well documented, there are lots of good scripting examples from the simple to the complex, like irons' Co-op.lua, and plenty of features you can build in Lua, like weapon reloading. Pick a single task, like loading a new clip when you press the microphone key, and see how far you can get. Plenty of people here can give suggestions if you post your code as you progress.

To do anything useful on the C++ side, you'd need a computer capable of running and compiling the current Aleph One. Until your programming desire outweighs your hardware fetish, there's nothing I can teach that you are willing to learn.
User avatar

Hopper

Post May 17th '16, 00:13

You know, I've just come up with another stupid ass question to ask. What does the GeForce 1-4 Texture Fix do?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jun 3rd '16, 17:13

Sometime ago I downloaded a Icon pack for a bunch of marathon scenarios here on the pfhorums and have since then lost the file. I can't remember exactly who made it/uploaded it though. I wanna say it was Hopper/thedoctor45/presidentpeople? They where pretty well done and it had icons for lesser known/odd scenarios such as Arx Immanis, TrAVel, Pfh'Joueur etc. If this rings a bell and someone could direct me to a link that would be great.

Also, is that old hotline chat still kicking?
User avatar

Nordevai

Post Jun 3rd '16, 21:18

hl.bungie.org is still alive, yes.
User avatar

Pfhorrest
California

Post Jun 20th '16, 23:34

Pfhorrest wrote:hl.bungie.org is still alive, yes.

A long time ago, goran, ryoko, johannes, and probably some other people uploaded 7-polygon levels to the HL file section. Do those still exist? Some of them were pretty good.
User avatar

irons
(.Y.)

Post Jul 21st '16, 06:05

OK, back to my stupid meatserver stat question. WTF is with these biased stats? The entire thing is A LIE. Look at https://metaserver.lhowon.org/games/win ... 2016-07-12, and check out Krayden's Dark World game. 2 players right? Except click on the game!!! Not only does it suddenly switch to 7-13 in the URL, but 3 more people suddenly show up!

I'm about to cry guys.
User avatar

Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 21st '16, 07:08

irons wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:hl.bungie.org is still alive, yes.

A long time ago, goran, ryoko, johannes, and probably some other people uploaded 7-polygon levels to the HL file section. Do those still exist? Some of them were pretty good.

Our file section has been dead for a while, so probably not. (Or possible different server entirely, if it's long enough ago).
User avatar

Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 30th '16, 22:48

You know I think I finally have another question for this thread. What the fuck does "Limit Vertical View" & "Full Scene Antialiasing" do?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jul 31st '16, 02:20

I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
User avatar

HelviusRufus

Post Aug 1st '16, 16:31

Hello. I just discovered the website. And it seems really good. I got a Question. I'm playing on Marathon 2: Durandal with AlephOne and I can't get the exact same controls than on the XBLA release with an Xbox 360 gamepad.
When I try to map the left and right triggers, the D-Pad and the right joystick, the game don't want to recognize them.R
And it's pretty annoying because I don't want to use LT and RT to look left and right anymore. Is it possible to map these buttons without needing Xpadder or other 3rd party softwares ?

I know this is a bad excuse, but sorry if I made errors in the text I am french.
JonathanM2D

Post Aug 2nd '16, 18:28

Considering that the XBox 360 controller isn't something you'd conventionally hookup to your PC, I'd say Aleph One's not registering it correctly. In fact Aleph One might not even have any support for it period. For more info I'd ask Hopper, he's the main developer of the engine at the moment.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 2nd '16, 21:42

3371-Alpha wrote:Considering that the XBox 360 controller isn't something you'd conventionally hookup to your PC


the Xbox 360 controller is the conventional controller for PC gaming, any PC game that has controller support explicitly supports that controller (usually with icons as well) and for any other controller you'd need an adapter and probably an application like Joy2Key or DS4Windows

but, good try anyway

e: or you could use the steam controller for steam games, but lmao it's a piece of garbage
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 3rd '16, 00:51

RyokoTK wrote:the Xbox 360 controller is the conventional controller for PC gaming

Wow, I didn't realize Microsoft produced the 360 controller for the sole purpose of PC gaming.
Just because something's commonly used in a particular way doesn't make it conventional. The USB PC controllers, those are conventional.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 3rd '16, 01:49

how do you think the Xbox 360 controller interfaces with a PC? the Xbox 360 gamepad IS a USB PC controller. Microsoft was actually pretty smart for once. it plugs into the console with its own plug-in but it's actually an adapter that attaches to the cable; if you take the adapter off it's just plain old USB and connects directly to the PC. prior to that you could not use a console gamepad for PC gaming without buying an adapter, so you'd have to go buy some MadCatz piece of shit that was just a generic USB gamepad and was cheaply made.

it is the most commonly used gamepad on PCs; it's affordable, easy to find, and pretty much every game that is made for PC with gamepads in mind (especially a lot of indie games) assume you'll be playing with a 360 gamepad based on the prompts and icons they come up with.

third party gamepads almost completely went by the wayside when the 360 came out because it was natively recognized by Windows as something other than a generic USB gamepad, so you don't need to set anything up; it "just works" and it works really well because the 360 gamepad is actually pretty well-made. also when the 360 came out (so like ten years ago) buying the gamepad was maybe 30 bucks, which was a pittance! it dominated the market.

nowadays the only serious competitor to the 360 gamepad is the steam controller, which is a piece of junk but obviously has a lot of marketing strength behind it; and although the Dualshock 4 is a Bluetooth device (and therefore you can connect it to your PC if it supports Bluetooth) it doesn't really work right unless you download a third-party application. and even then it doesn't work perfectly -- I couldn't get it to work right with Dark Souls 2 on PC, even though it obviously works fine on the PS4, and this was after spending an hour trying to configure DS4Windows just so

meanwhile, the Xbox 360 controller worked immediately and flawlessly and the only thing I don't like about it is the mushy d-pad that was endemic to that generation of consoles. the Wii U Pro Controller would actually probably be the ideal PC gaming controller because it weighs virtually nothing and has excellently built buttons (including the d-pad) except it interfaces with the Wii U in its own way (i.e. not Bluetooth), and so you would have to actually purchase a physical apparatus that recognizes it.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 3rd '16, 02:30

Well sorry, how the fuck was I suppose to know that? I don't use a PC so the last I knew you guys still used those shitty MadCatz USB controllers. Anyways, the point is ask Hopper.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
User avatar

3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 3rd '16, 02:38

RyokoTK wrote:the Wii U Pro Controller would actually probably be the ideal PC gaming controller because it weighs virtually nothing and has excellently built buttons (including the d-pad) except it interfaces with the Wii U in its own way (i.e. not Bluetooth), and so you would have to actually purchase a physical apparatus that recognizes it.

The WiiU pro controller uses bluetooth, it is just particular about what will recognize it. Using toshiba bt stack and wiinusoft (the latter to make it look like a 360 controller to windows so everything will just natively recognize it) makes it work like a dream as a pc controller.
w00se

Post Aug 3rd '16, 02:44

3371-Alpha wrote:Well sorry, how the fuck was I suppose to know that? I don't use a PC so the last I knew you guys still used those shitty MadCatz USB controllers. Anyways, the point is ask Hopper.


whyd you fuckin' spout off about controllers then, moron

w00se wrote:
RyokoTK wrote:the Wii U Pro Controller would actually probably be the ideal PC gaming controller because it weighs virtually nothing and has excellently built buttons (including the d-pad) except it interfaces with the Wii U in its own way (i.e. not Bluetooth), and so you would have to actually purchase a physical apparatus that recognizes it.

The WiiU pro controller uses bluetooth, it is just particular about what will recognize it. Using toshiba bt stack and wiinusoft (the latter to make it look like a 360 controller to windows so everything will just natively recognize it) makes it work like a dream as a pc controller.


hey I didn't know that! last I looked into it I thought I needed a device. maybe I'll try that because I really like the controller but it, like the rest of my Wii U, is pretty much a dust-collection utility right now :(
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 3rd '16, 02:53

oh i get it, the whole point of your response is "uh i dont know, ask someone else" as if he was specifically asking you to begin with

man do i look silly
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

PreviousNext

Return to The Pfhorums



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users