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Post Sep 6th '10, 18:57

W wrote:I updated my example page to have a "news" section and list the 5 most recent S7 uploads. The news section would only mention files that are actually good. The idea being, people could take a quick look at the top of the page to see if there's anything new they are interested in. Considering there is only about one or two files per month that are worth anything, maintaining something like this would not be too difficult. Of course, unless there is actual interest in this, I'm not going to bother. Since we've already established people aren't going to use anything other than S7 itself, I'm not expecting this to happen.


It reminds me a bit of the old scenario news page. If you maintain it, then I'll use it for sure.
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goran

Post Sep 6th '10, 19:46

Well now that I had some coffee I can hopefully be a little more clear. I meant to imply that fileball had/has a system promote the better files. I realized what you want is a renewed version of the old hyperarchives. Where content release is controlled by a single discerning party. This definitely kept the "noise" out. A single trusted opinion was the recomendation you would have to go on.

A public rating system is inherently flawed by any measure. It also can be quite a useful tool. I simply don't download anything elitesoldier give a high rating. He makes for a pretty good filter.
words
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ellio7t
long beach, ca no, now I live in L.A.

Post Sep 6th '10, 21:56

nez: crashinetors would be tagged 'physics', which i'd have marked as uninteresting, so it'd be grayed out and i'd skip over the post without reading. unless people were outright incorrectly tagging their uploads, it'd work pretty ok --- and while we're having switch add this feature in our fantasy, we can have him appoint steve as a moderator to fix incorrectly tagged items.

elliott: i agree that it's possible (easy, even) to manually filter S7 by looking before you leap, but it would be nice and not particularly difficult to institute a system where items are filtered en masse and persistently. though i'm frustrated with crashinetors, i know and agree that disallowing user-contributed material isn't the right move -- but disallowing it in some kind of overlay, like tl suggested and wrk created, seems like a good idea.
dude, seriously. dude.
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thermoplyae

Post Sep 7th '10, 01:48

It really shouldn't be so hard to bypass Appleswitch's Simplici7y. I agree that most of the reason for more people using that site than the new [acronym='Lh'own Ar'kives']Fileball[/acronym] because of the links on The Pfhorums.

Consider advertising Fileball outside of Treellama's signature on The Phorums. There could be a Third Party links section under Support, etc, on S.B.O's main page that links to it. Also, the third party links that are listed on SBO could be uploaded and re-linked to Fileball, and Fileball could be linked in #alephone's topic.

Could Fileball be linked from SourceForge, also? Would it make sense to do that too?
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Sep 7th '10, 02:08

What good would switching to Fileball do? The search is just as bad, and the only extra moderation it might have is to get rid of fake reviews. This doesn't solve the problem where people upload whatever crap they want, and people are still allowed to have horrible opinions when it comes to rating files.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 02:17

W wrote:The search is just as bad

Fileball search at least searches descriptions. Try finding Werefrog on S7 if you don't know what pack it's in.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 7th '10, 02:37

Try loading up the front page and typing in CTF into quick search. Not only does it not search descriptions, it doesn't even search titles!
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 03:01

Veritably, He Can Blame Anyone.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Sep 7th '10, 04:41

Well, whatever. I think lochnits.com/simplicity solves most of the problems. People that like s7 the way it is can keep using it, and people that are just interested in decent files can use my site. Everyone wins. Since the work is already done, I guess I might as well keep it up to date for now. I have it refreshing every hour along with the mariusnet statistics, so the recent file list and download counts should be kept reasonably up to date. I'll write a sentence or two in the recent updates section about good files as they come in.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 06:06

This is certainly a start. Maybe at some point switch can be moved to incorporate it into S7 proper.

Thanks, Wrk.
dude, seriously. dude.
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thermoplyae

Post Sep 7th '10, 08:18

I don't have a problem with S7. But here's how I think it could be improved:

Allow each S7 member to customize what is displayed for him when he logs in. Let him customize what he sees by giving him the option to do things like:
  • Hide This File
  • Hide All of This Member's Files
  • Hide This Review
  • Hide All of This Member's Reviews
That way he only has to look at something he doesn't care about once. And if another member repeatedly posts files or comments he doesn't care for, he can hide everything that member has ever posted and everything that member ever will post. And of course such display options would be toggles that could be changed at any given time.

Edit: i.e. somewhere in the member's preferences, he could select which hidden items and/or members to show.
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Sep 7th '10, 08:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Sep 7th '10, 13:08

W wrote:Try loading up the front page and typing in CTF into quick search. Not only does it not search descriptions, it doesn't even search titles!

When's the last time you tried this? :)
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 7th '10, 15:16

Treellama wrote:When's the last time you tried this? :)

Right before I posted. While we're on the subject, how do you search by author? While doing this whole thing, I realized some of my files weren't on S7, and went to Fileball to get them so I could upload them. I couldn't find any way to list my files. Luckily I had a list of my files on my website so I could figure out which ones I was missing, but I think I just got lucky. Of course, hopefully I'm just being stupid and there is an obvious way to do this.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 15:27

W wrote:Right before I posted. While we're on the subject, how do you search by author? While doing this whole thing, I realized some of my files weren't on S7, and went to Fileball to get them so I could upload them. I couldn't find any way to list my files. Luckily I had a list of my files on my website so I could figure out which ones I was missing, but I think I just got lucky. Of course, hopefully I'm just being stupid and there is an obvious way to do this.

it's not obvious, but if you find one of your files and click on your name, you should get a list of everything you've authored. goran pointed out the url format somewhere above.
dude, seriously. dude.
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thermoplyae

Post Sep 7th '10, 15:39

W wrote:Right before I posted.

Works now. I remember searching for short files when I installed Fileball and it working, so I suspect the "Search files" always worked.

The search was never by any means "just as bad" as on Simplici7y.

While we're on the subject, how do you search by author? While doing this whole thing, I realized some of my files weren't on S7, and went to Fileball to get them so I could upload them. I couldn't find any way to list my files. Luckily I had a list of my files on my website so I could figure out which ones I was missing, but I think I just got lucky. Of course, hopefully I'm just being stupid and there is an obvious way to do this.

The quick search searches by author by default, but it doesn't seem like "Search Files" does. If you really mean search by submitter, it doesn't seem like either search does that currently. Seems like it would be a useful thing to have--I think old Fileball had something like that--I will have to check if that functionality is available in newer versions of Remository.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 7th '10, 16:03

I haven't had any issues with it either and do like how it is simple to use.

I would say the only problem I have with it is not being able to log on for the longest time because the link for getting your "old password" to work again or whatever it does, has never worked.
Marathon Player Since 1995.

If You Are Always Dying in The Game, You Are Not a Bad Player, You Are Learning.
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Sharkie Lino
Connecticut

Post Sep 7th '10, 16:21

thermoplyae wrote:it's not obvious, but if you find one of your files and click on your name, you should get a list of everything you've authored. goran pointed out the url format somewhere above.

I was talking about Fileball.
Treellama wrote:The quick search searches by author by default, but it doesn't seem like "Search Files" does. If you really mean search by submitter, it doesn't seem like either search does that currently. Seems like it would be a useful thing to have--I think old Fileball had something like that--I will have to check if that functionality is available in newer versions of Remository.

I'm sorry I always sound like a jerk when talking about Fileball, but the site never works for me at all. I just searched for Wrkncacnter and W'rkncacnter with quick search, and the only thing I see is TBC's article on WETPEACK. For some reason, not all of my files even have an author (how is that even possible?!?), but COLORSPEACK has W'rkncacnter as an author, and it isn't showing up. I stand by what I said, the search isn't any better, and IMO is actually worse than S7.

The point is, Fileball is great for browsing old files that were on fileball.net, but it needs a lot of work before it can be used as a serious place to put new content. The one good thing is, you're much more likely to update Fileball than switch is to update s7.
Last edited by Wrkncacnter on Sep 7th '10, 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 16:44

W wrote:I'm sorry I always sound like a jerk when talking about Fileball, but the site never works for me at all.

That's pretty much how it comes off, but I'm used to that. You focus on pretty minor things Fileball almost gets right but doesn't--the ability to handle apostrophes in searches, honestly, Gmail filters don't even get that right (but maybe you don't use Gmail either)--while ignoring fundamental things S7 doesn't have, like the ability to find a map when you don't know the name of the pack it's in. Typing in "W'rkncacnter" into S7's search doesn't return ANY of the results you complained about missing in Fileball's search, so yeah you do sound like a jerk.

As far as the author field, if you don't fill one in, it will be blank. This seems reasonable to me, and would be better if the search included the submitter. I suspect the Remository guys didn't do that because it involves a join, whereas author doesn't, but I'll see what I can do.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 7th '10, 17:05

Treellama wrote:the ability to handle apostrophes in searches, honestly, Gmail filters don't even get that right (but maybe you don't use Gmail either)

20:17 <@treellama> having to put "popems" in the title of "pop'ems" in order for searches to work is wholly inadequate


I already admit that S7 search is awful, but that site currently has workarounds. I can find files by author on S7. I'm including these workarounds when I talk about "searching" on S7. I'm really just responding to people saying we should switch over to Fileball, saying it isn't ready. If these "minor" issues like being able to find your own files are fixed, then I'll be saying something entirely different.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 17:17

I forgot Quick Search on Fileball has[had?] issues. Maybe it was luck, but I've never had a problem with the Search Files method.

Most of what I like about Fileball is the defined categories / tags, and the ability to browse files using them as a filter. If I'm looking for a new scenario I click Scenario; if I want new physics I click Physics. I also like to see all the extra features/information Fileball has (i.e. the submitter can be different from the author, and file size). I prefer a more organized approach to file sharing, I guess.

I too am not a fan of Fileball's appearance. I'd prefer a theme similar to SBO's. However, I don't go there to be dazzled, I go there to download Marathon related content.

Even if S7's search worked properly, expecting users of S7 to guess outside the predefined filters (that also appear broken) is asinine. I assume Appleswitch had intended on setting up a Tag Cloud so that you could see all tags. Maybe W'rk can add that to his front end, aswell.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Sep 7th '10, 17:25

@wrk: Perhaps you actually don't realize taking quotes out of context is one of the things that makes you sound like a jerk--I think you do, so it really does seem intentional.

Maybe Fileball isn't ready for you, because you can't remember the names of your own creations to search for them, but S7 isn't ready for people who don't know the names of others' creations. They are at worst equivalently bad, but you won't even admit that. To your credit, you do admit Fileball has a chance of improving, although I'll point out that will only happen with feedback similar to that which you've withheld (with a few exceptions) for whatever reason until thermo started this thread. It's also difficult to be motivated to make any improvements when things like the color of the page, or the "cluttered layout", whatever that means--there's less stuff there than old Fileball--are enough to keep people from using the site.

Edit: I didn't hit quote and effigy slipped one in, so I have to clarify the reply
Last edited by treellama on Sep 7th '10, 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 7th '10, 17:33

Treellama wrote:...
Edit: I didn't hit quote and effigy slipped one in, so I have to clarify the reply


Yeah, I tend to hit Fast Reply then wait 10 minutes before beginning to type...

Why is Weland not on Fileball or Simplici7y? That may seem unrelated, but I was thinking of that as another promotional method.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Sep 7th '10, 17:41

effigy wrote:Why is Weland not on Fileball or Simplici7y? That may seem unrelated, but I was thinking of that as another promotional method.

Laziness. I'd have to update three sites every time I updated.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 7th '10, 18:11

Treellama wrote:@wrk: Perhaps you actually don't realize taking quotes out of context is one of the things that makes you sound like a jerk--I think you do, so it really does seem intentional.

I really don't see how the context matters. You don't like not being able to search for a file with an ', and neither do I.
Treellama wrote:They are at worst equivalently bad, but you won't even admit that.

I'll admit they could just be equivalently bad, because I don't know how other people use these sites. I can only speak for myself, and for the things I use the site for, I have more issues with searching on Fileball than S7.
Treellama wrote:To your credit, you do admit Fileball has a chance of improving, although I'll point out that will only happen with feedback similar to that which you've withheld (with a few exceptions) for whatever reason until thermo started this thread

I don't like to give feedback, because every time I do, you get insanely defensive. If you call all of my problems "minor", that let's me know that you don't care what I think, so I might as well not even get into a discussion that will only result in an argument. Replying to my feedback with "yeah, that's broken, but THIS works" doesn't help me at all.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Sep 7th '10, 18:52

W wrote:I really don't see how the context matters. You don't like not being able to search for a file with an ', and neither do I.

You know very well that comment was in regards to being unable to put alternate spellings or name changes of file names in searchable tags, if not the description, so that searching either for Popems or Pop'ems would succeed--and having to put them in the title instead. Instead you presented it in the context that not ignoring apostrophes in searches was something I thought wholly inadequate, when in fact most of my frustration as a programmer when trying to search for things is caused by punctuation being ignored. I realize that it is a rare case for non-programmers to care about punctuation in searches, and an even rarer one for non-programmers to care about punctuation in searches for user names!

I don't like to give feedback, because every time I do, you get insanely defensive. If you call all of my problems "minor", that let's me know that you don't care what I think, so I might as well not even get into a discussion that will only result in an argument. Replying to my feedback with "yeah, that's broken, but THIS works" doesn't help me at all.

Usually it's given in the context of "I can't use Fileball at all because of this," so "but THIS works" is actually meant to be helpful--it would at least let you use it. It is hard not to be defensive when someone suggests that an inability to search for their own files makes them completely unable to use an entire web site--but I will try. If all you do is search for your own files, I apologize for calling that a minor problem.

I hope it doesn't seem defensive to point out the three character search problem was fixed without comment. That certainly wasn't a minor thing, Lua and CTF being very common three letter search terms. I do appreciate hearing feedback like this, and I try to respond so that the person knows where the problem stands--if that sometimes seems or is defensive I apologize.
Last edited by treellama on Sep 7th '10, 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

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