Pf'hak - Frequently Asked Questions - 8 Years Too Late

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Post Sep 29th '08, 14:21

They're gone. You don't want them! Use Visual Mode.lua instead.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 27th '08, 03:06

Hello, I'm having some trouble getting the hi-res texture files to work, can someone help me?

Perhaps it will be more convenient and appropriate for us to PM each other? Or email me at zyphirr@gmail.com.

Thanks in advance!
tsc00pz

Post Dec 15th '08, 18:02

Phsyco_Kid wrote:No source code can be permanently lost, once there are copies of the compiled program flying around on the net. Programs can be decompiled. Possibly bungie would allow someone permission.

I'm not saying it would be easy or that I would be the one doing it, I'm just saying it's possible.


I think what your missing here is although this is possible with a lot of new programs which all follow a certain pattern, for some reason Marathon can't be decompiled probably because the way it was programmed is completely different from how we do it these days.

I could be wrong.
Pfucktastic.
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kenderjunk

Post Dec 16th '08, 08:45

g_g

You can't decompile Forge. The best thing you can try to do is reverse-engineer it, like what thermoplyae is doing with Smithy.
Embrace imagination.
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chinkeeyong
Singapore


Post Dec 16th '08, 15:36

Nice try, kenderjunk. I was about to get all riled up that some fool had suggested decompiling Forge again, then I saw you had quoted a post that is nearly two years old. I don't think that user hang around here anymore. At least we all agree this time around that it's an impossible task!
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Mar 4th '09, 02:25

Do we have a Marathon Concept Art repository? If so, I think it should be linked to in the Pfh'AQ.
Can't speel for hist.
Phortiphy

Post Mar 4th '09, 05:01

I was reading this and saw something like

why can't I jump lol


and I thought, why not write a script for it if jumping is in the cheats? I don't know lua, but I think if you go

[[code]]key command AND touching ground = the jump action from the cheats[/[code]]

and also

[[code]]key command = substitute 0.4 for 0.8 WU in the physics (for crouch)[/[code]]

It might work. I believe someone who knows lua could easily do that.
Major Pedro

Post Mar 4th '09, 14:17

Awhile ago I replaced walking with crouching, but since there's no crouching sequence the best you can do is change the camera height and player height; the player still appears to be standing though.
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$lave

Post Mar 5th '09, 03:44

$lave wrote:Awhile ago I replaced walking with crouching, but since there's no crouching sequence the best you can do is change the camera height and player height; the player still appears to be standing though.


That script was my favorite until the elimination script came out. You should give it to me.
I don't care anymore.
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Jim
Dayton, Ohio

Post Mar 5th '09, 22:09

$lave wrote:Awhile ago I replaced walking with crouching, but since there's no crouching sequence the best you can do is change the camera height and player height; the player still appears to be standing though.


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goran

Post Apr 1st '09, 00:25

Grayswandir wrote:Q: What ports do I need to forward to host or play online in AlephOne?
A: Port 4226 using TCP/UDP. Check here for more information: http://www.users.on.net/~mark/A1QuickStart...html#networking


that link doesn't work....
AKA Tekkenfreak4
AKA Ranthar Harmonicos
Warning: Star Wars nerd approaching! Use caution!
Feel the burn!
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Tekkenfreak4
virginia

Post Apr 1st '09, 03:06

Last edited by effigy on Apr 1st '09, 03:07, edited 1 time in total.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Sep 22nd '09, 22:11

Grayswandir wrote:Q: I want to use Forge though...
A: Download Basilisk II here: http://gwenole.beauchesne.online.fr/basilisk2/downloads.html
Or go to this thread (thanks Bobwiththekeycard) and download everything here: http://forums.bungie.org/story/?read=38588

The second download link is dead now :(
Does this exist anywhere else?
Last edited by ErisOnline on Sep 22nd '09, 22:12, edited 1 time in total.
Image
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ErisOnline
San Francisco, CA

Post Sep 22nd '09, 22:50

I suppose I need to update this thing eventually.
Last edited by LegacyTyphoon on Sep 22nd '09, 22:50, edited 1 time in total.
The Pf'hak - Read it.
Science technology jargon physics.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Sep 23rd '09, 20:10

I generally point people who want to get sheepshaver/bassilisk running to here, it should have everything you need.
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$lave

Post Sep 23rd '09, 20:16

$lave wrote:I generally point people who want to get sheepshaver/bassilisk running to here, it should have everything you need.

I've been looking for that. Thanks.
Image
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ErisOnline
San Francisco, CA

Post Sep 25th '09, 19:06

Legs, a lot of the information on here is outdated. Here are some things that I think you should fix so perhaps new people won't be so confused.

Grayswandir wrote:Q: File [xyz] can't be seen by AO or my music file doesn't work
A: download the Inf-->AO file typer here: http://fileball.net/marathon/item.fb?947950681
It works with both M2 and M? files.

Aleph One never needed these file typers anyway. This might perpetuate the myth that there are differences between Infinity and "Aleph One" files, which is not true, and which has started several pointless threads. In addition, the link is to the old Fileball. I say you take this Q+A out completely or you modify it:
Q: Are Marathon 1, 2, or Infinity data files readable by Aleph One?
A: Marathon 1 files are an older, incompatible format. Marathon 2 and Infinity files are exactly the same and are the files Aleph One can read. That is to say, M2 And Minf files are Aleph One's native format.

Q: Is there a windows Marathon map editor?
A: Obed's site is here: http://www.pulsecode.net/obed.html
http://webwonks.org/Marathon/Obed/ObedIndex.html for more links and information

Q: Is there more info about Obed?
A: http://www.pfhorums.com/index.php?showtopi...&#entry8213 that Hunter10 so kindly started...it turned into a How-to Obed Stuff thread...

Q: I want to use Forge though...
A: Download Basilisk II here: http://gwenole.beauchesne.online.fr/basilisk2/downloads.html
Or go to this thread (thanks Bobwiththekeycard) and download everything here: http://forums.bungie.org/story/?read=38588

A list of utilities and useful sources of information for those utilities would be better.
Q: What tools can I use to edit maps, shapes, sounds, and other data files? And how can I put them together into a scenario or TC?
A: Marathon's editors were originally only made for legacy versions of Mac OS, so this can be a tricky question sometimes. Recently, programmers have made progress on cross-platform tools. Here is a list of what you might be looking for, organized roughly by data file type:
  • Maps: The most commonly-needed tool and also the hardest to find outside of Mac OS 9. Regardless of which editor you choose, the Forge Manual, on page 22 of the Infinity Manual (click to download the PDF), will introduce you to necessary concepts. A kind Youtube user has uploaded the original tutorial videos, which you should also watch even if you aren't using Forge.
    • Forge is the official map editor and is therefore the standard by which all others are judged. Its most popular and difficult-to-implement feature is "visual mode," a 3D view of the level that allows the user to apply textures interactively. Forge only runs on discontinued versions of Mac OS, which wasn't a large problem until Apple switched from PowerPC processors to Intel. If you don't have a Mac capable of running OS 7, 8, or 9, and you have no other choice, check out the "Emulation" section below.
    • Obed is a level editor for Windows 95 and higher. Because the only official Bungie release of Marathon for Windows was Marathon 2, Obed was designed to support only this version of the game. This means it does not "understand" several things, including using textures from the Jjaro texture set (introduced in Infinity) and placing Infinity-only items such as the SMG, its ammunition, and VacBobs. Because of this, because you must register to save level names, and because it lacks Forge's visual mode, many people dislike Obed; however, it is overall a very stable editor with a few unique features. Its shortcomings can be overcome in a number of ways. First, you can use Visual Mode.lua to texture the level with whatever textures you like (see below), including using the Jjaro set. Second, you can use a utility like JUICE to swap all of some item type for SMGs/SMG ammo/VacBobs/etc. (see the JUICE section below). Finally, you can also use JUICE to rename completed levels from "Please Register" to whatever you want. Also consider spending the measly $10 to register. In any case, WastdJamacan has uploaded tutorials to help you use Obed. See the wiki page and Youtube videos created by WastdJamacan.
    • Weland is not yet complete, but is already a very promising editor created by the primary developer of Aleph One. There aren't many things I can say about it yet, but review the thread to get an idea of what to expect. Until then, we recommend using Forge or Obed for your mapping needs.
    • JUICE was meant only to be a stopgap measure until real editors might come into existence. It is not a full editor; it can't add or remove polygons, lines, points, and so on. However, it has a number of uses. It can replace all objects of one type and subtype (various items, sounds, monsters, players, goals) with objects of another subtype; it can do the same for textures; it can embed a shape patch into a level; it can change a level's name (both in the level select dialog and on the overhead map; these can be different). There are other uses, but they are of an even more niche nature. It was written in Java so it could run on multiple platforms. It is a tool worth downloading, but don't expect much from it.
    • Visual Mode.lua, or VML, is a Lua script designed to be run in Aleph One. Its sole purpose it to emulate, to the best of its ability, Forge's visual mode, with a number of advantages. It use textures from any texture set, it will render replacement textures as you apply them, and it ignores Forge's limitations: there are no problems with viewing distances or high numbers of transparent lines. Since its release, VML has become widely used even by people who have access to Forge and its visual mode, and is notably endorsed by such personalities as RyokoTK.
  • Shapes: Most graphics in the game come from the Shapes file. This includes monsters, weapons in hand, textures, and items. Although there are actually fewer editors for Shapes files, there is already one in existence for cross-platform use, and it is quite stable. Both editors listed here can be understood with a glimpse at the Anvil section of the Marathon Infinity manual (see the Map section above), starting on page 58.
    • Anvil, like Forge, is a tool made by Bungie. Also like Forge, it is only available for older versions of Mac OS. See the Emulation section if you absolutely must run Anvil.
    • Shapefusion began several years ago, halted development, and recently assumed its current state. It is almost exactly like Anvil, except it exports and imports Windows BMP (bitmap) files instead of the PICT format used by Anvil. This means, of course, that you can use just about any image editor to modify sprites, as long as it exports to BMP.
  • Sounds: Sound editors are even harder to come by than Map editors, but few people seem to mind. If you have to modify sounds, consider the following options:
    • Anvil (see the Shapes section) also works with Sounds files. Along with the more advanced Wail, it runs exclusively on OS 9 and below. Unfortunately, these are the only complete sound editors in existence, so for heavy scenario or total conversion stuff, you still need to emulate older Mac OS to get this part done. A brave soul might tinker enough with the Wail source code to set us free from Mac OS...
    • Shapefusion has very rudimentary sound support. Very rudimentary. However, as development continues on this editor, you might be able to use it the same as you would use Anvil.
    • Sound MML is an acceptable substitute for editing the Sounds file itself. Using MML, you can replace any sound in the Sounds file with an external sound in WAV format. This is actually a very good option if you plan on replacing only a few sounds. As long as the end-user has an existing Sounds file, you can supplement that file with external replacements.
  • Images: the Images file has far fewer Images than you'd expect, mainly the splash screen, main menu, and credits screens. As such, total conversion creators are usually the only people who worry about Images.
    • ResEdit, the legendary resource fork editor, comes in handy: Images files are in fact just resource forks loaded with pictures. Of course, only Mac OS can really understand resource forks, and so ResEdit and similar tools are limited to that platform.
    • Atque not only merges map files (see below in the Scenarios/TCs section), but it also allows you to split and re-combine Images files. There are versions of Atque for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.
  • Music: This is the music that plays at the game's main menu. The M2 and Infinity Music file was actually just an AIFF file. Nowadays, Aleph One allows you to use WAV and MP3 files instead. If you leave the extension on, make sure you edit the stringset MML accordingly.
  • Physics: Anvil also handles physics editing. PhysicsEditorOne is the closest thing other platforms have to a complete editor, but it is rumored to be very glitchy.
  • Scenarios/TCs: This section exists because there are a few concepts shared between all these file types, culminating in the idea of a "Scenario" or a "Total Conversion." Ideas such as merging your levels into on Map file should be familiar. You can use Atque to modify the extra Map stuff (terminal pictures, embedded MML and Lua, and so on. The original Marathon 1, 2, and Infinity applications also had a number of settings that could only be changed by modifying their resource forks. Things like fader colors, the amount of damage done by certain liquids, and the text that appears in menus, are now accessible via MML. There are numerous useful subsets of MML that most modernized scenarios or TCs have changed; you can get an idea by looking at the MML included with them. Even if you don't plan on doing such extensive editing, consider including Scenario MML so people playing incompatible scenarios (usually due to Shapes or non-embedded MML) can't join yours for online play.
  • Emulation: If you really really need to run one of the programs listed above as legacy Mac OS-only, then you can set up an emulator like Basilisk (emulates 68k Macs) or Sheepshaver (Emulates PPC Macs; now the preferred emulator). There are countless threads here on Pfhorums that cover this topic, but you should start at this convenient off-site link.

Q: What ports do I need to forward to host or play online in AlephOne?
A: Port 4226 using TCP/UDP. Check here for more information: http://www.users.on.net/~mark/A1QuickStart...html#networking

Q: How do I open ports in my firewall?
A: Check your firewalls documentation files or look through the options until you find it.


I'd say to replace these instructions with the ones available from PortForward. Remind them that port 15367 is no longer needed, in spite of the instructions on that site. PortForward also covers the second question.

Q: Where can I get extra maps?
A: While Fileball is the established repository, Simplici7y also has several esteemed packs, including:
Red Spectrum
Revel
Second Quest
Sovereignty
Underworld

Please update these links. Fileball is no longer dead, and Simplici7y's files no longer need to be accessed from that stupid IP address.

Q: What other scenarios should I get?
A: Marathon EVIL; Marathon: Rubicon; Tempus Irae; The Gray Incident; Marathon RED.

http://lhowon.org/ has most of these scenarios updated to have the right MML. Rubicon and TGI can stay the same.

Q: Where can I find Basilisk II?
A: http://basilisk.cebix.net/ Have fun...

The huge section I wrote above takes care of this.

Q: How do i get doors to work in Pfhorge?

I honestly don't think we should mention Pfhorge any more. It has caused more problems than I thought possible.

I think these changes will benefit both new and experienced users.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Sep 25th '09, 19:36

Why don't we move the Aleph One parts of the FAQ to the sbo/wiki, then the community can help keep it up to date. This FAQ could focus on Pfhorums and link to the other for Aleph One questions.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 25th '09, 19:55

I knew you would say that :( Somehow I don't think that will work.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Sep 25th '09, 22:39

Thanks for the info irons. I'll go update it now!
The Pf'hak - Read it.
Science technology jargon physics.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Sep 25th '09, 22:51

Treellama wrote:Why don't we move the Aleph One parts of the FAQ to the sbo/wiki, then the community can help keep it up to date. This FAQ could focus on Pfhorums and link to the other for Aleph One questions.

I have to agree with Irons - unfortunately, I'm sure even the Pf'hak is frequently skipped over. Providing the information in as few click-throughs as possible might better stem the tide of questions than crossing your fingers and hoping that people spend the time to wade through the mess of wiki links.
Last edited by L'howon on Sep 25th '09, 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
I have been wading in a long river and my feet are wet.
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

Post Sep 25th '09, 23:17

You know you can link directly to wiki pages, right? For example, where the link to this thread is.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Sep 25th '09, 23:18

Who's going to do that? Switch?
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)


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