Gorans Highres Infinity Textures

Show off all of your Marathon-related art and music here.

Post Feb 15th '12, 02:09

Wood in close proximity to lava? Sounds perfectly sensible, I'm sure nothing at all could possibly go wrong.
Aleph One:  Download 1.2.1         Plugins:  Vasara  ·  more
User avatar

Hopper

Post Feb 15th '12, 04:28

Yeah that's most definitely not wood. It's probably stone or concrete or something.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Feb 15th '12, 07:30

It would be odd for none of the Lh'owon textures to incorporate wood. We know for a fact Lh'owon had or has forests, so why wouldn't wood be used sometimes as a building material?

As for this particular texture, yeah, wood within the lava set would be weird because you'd think it would burn. But to my eyes the original texture still looks more like wood than anything else, given the color, the thickness and implied depth of those beams in front, and the way related textures 08, 09, and 18 use those same beams as if they form an underlying structural frame, arranged at an angle to bear weight as in a truss.

If it is wood, I see what you mean about removing some of the illogical patterns. You wouldn't make the original texture the way it is unless you only had wood scraps with which to work or something.
Last edited by Crater Creator on Feb 15th '12, 07:32, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Crater Creator

Post Feb 15th '12, 09:58

It's either wood or sheet metal in my eyes. It capsules something.

I'll see if I can put up a metal one for comparison.
Last edited by goran on Feb 15th '12, 10:10, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

goran

Post Feb 15th '12, 10:52



Just put the original one up for comparison. To me, I'd always assumed it was a rusted metal frame on stone.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

riveting six-vertice amnesty ratifications
User avatar

Dugit
Hampshire, UK

Post Feb 15th '12, 11:46

here's a metal one
Attachments
015.png
015.png (376.8 KiB) Viewed 3830 times
Last edited by goran on Feb 15th '12, 11:52, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

goran

Post Feb 15th '12, 13:43

Perhaps the S'pht dredged petrified wood from the swamps and built with that. I just can't see building most of the architecture you see in Marathon 2 out of fresh cut wood. Retaining walls tens of stories high, etc.

I see most of the textures as stone or dried mud--but I admit, I hadn't before this post considered petrified wood.
User avatar

treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Feb 15th '12, 14:51

Even though petrified wood is basically stone, the idea of using it in a lava level still seems weird. Besides, it didn't look like petrified wood, it looked like... wood.

Your more recent version looks better.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Feb 16th '12, 21:20

Hopper wrote:Wood in close proximity to lava? Sounds perfectly sensible, I'm sure nothing at all could possibly go wrong.

Perhaps they used a special varnish
Eternal - Xmas I - Xmas II - Xmas III - Victory Dance IV - Winter I: The Venom - KTA III - Phoenix - somewhere in the heavens, waiting: The Syndicate
User avatar

Drictelt

Post Feb 17th '12, 00:06

Crater Creator wrote:It would be odd for none of the Lh'owon textures to incorporate wood. We know for a fact Lh'owon had or has forests, so why wouldn't wood be used sometimes as a building material?


Why wouldn't the wood be used inside the structure where it can't be seen? Existing construction often does exactly that. Consider freeways and skyscrapers.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be enough information to argue whether or not the S'pht used wood to build at all. For all we know, they used a synthesized alternative superior to wood. Or maybe they respected nature more than we do and just left the trees alone. FWIW, I've never interpreted any part of any Lh'owon texture as being made of wood, and highly doubt the artists ever intended them to be (at least not in the final versions of the games).
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Feb 17th '12, 00:49, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 17th '12, 03:39

When you get right down to it, a very large number of Lh'owon textures look like "probably stone or concrete or something" to me. And lava textures in particular are heavily stone-based, which is fitting. But if I were making these textures, I'd find it limiting to use a palette of stone, metal, and in special cases glass. So I see wood not only as a reasonable interpretation of certain textures, but also as providing needed variety across these textures.

It's true, it impacts the player very little whether a texture looks like wood or metal. But the player can appreciate the texture's aesthetic quality and detail. And for a texture artist, determining what materials comprise a texture is a key part to achieving that quality. I think going with a real, identifiable material tends to lead to better results than some imagined, synthesized alternative.

Goran, I've tried your animated water now. Have you considered animating the bump map instead of the diffuse map? I think that might give a nice illusion of waves. At least as a test, you might even just take your animated caustic texture and use it as the bump channel.

Also, I think your metal version has a nice, soft bevel on it, the kind I recommend when I talk about laser-sharp, completely un-eroded edges.
User avatar

Crater Creator

Post Feb 17th '12, 03:47

I appreciate the idea that it's limiting, as the person drawing hi-res textures, to have to apply a stone or metal effect to all of your textures. But the problem is, that's what the textures look like. The reason why the TTEP textures don't work for me is because of creative liberties. I'll use a handful of textures in a room in part because of coloration, but also because of material. If a texture that I think is stone suddenly becomes wood, that's going to be out of place to me.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Feb 17th '12, 04:39

Crater Creator wrote:I think going with a real, identifiable material tends to lead to better results than some imagined, synthesized alternative.


I was implying that the synthetic material would be hidden inside the structure, serving as a wood substitute in the construction process. So it wouldn't be seen in the textures at all. The only reason I mentioned a synthetic alternative was to demonstrate one of the (perhaps) many possibilities conceivable, based on how little is known of the building process and materials of the S'pht -- not to suggest a method or guide by which to create convincing textures.

RyokoTK wrote:I appreciate the idea that it's limiting, as the person drawing hi-res textures, to have to apply a stone or metal effect to all of your textures. But the problem is, that's what the textures look like. The reason why the TTEP textures don't work for me is because of creative liberties.


I agree 100%. In addition, wood and sci-fi just don't go together very well.
User avatar

Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 17th '12, 04:51

It's not wood, or metal, or stone... it's linoleum.

Here's a recap of what just happened here:

Goran: [Gets Wood]
Treellama is confused.
Hopper is whimsical.
Ryoko: "Uhh, no."
Crater Creator: "But think about it, why isn't there any wood there? I mean, planet, trees, planet, wood?"
[Aesthetic Debate Ensues]
Ares Ex Machina: "Hey guys, what if it's actually fake wood, like linoleum or something?"
User avatar

Not Invented Here

Post Feb 17th '12, 05:03

Ares Ex Machina wrote:I agree 100%. In addition, wood and sci-fi just don't go together very well.

Wookiees and Ewoks everywhere are up in arms now.

I always pictured Lh'owon as kinda rocky and unpleasant though. The only green you really see in the games is sewage. Not a planet with a significant logging industry, you know.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Feb 17th '12, 05:20

RyokoTK wrote:Wookiees and Ewoks everywhere are up in arms now.


Ha! The Ewoks I can take, but the Wookies...well, they'll probably tear my arms off. I guess what I should have added to my original statement is "when we're talking mingled surfaces in the same environment (unless it's post-apocalyptic)".
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Feb 17th '12, 05:21, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 17th '12, 05:23

Ares Ex Machina wrote:Ha! The Ewoks I can take, but the Wookies...well, they'll probably tear my arms off. I guess what I should have added to my original statement is "when we're talking mingled structures in the same environment (unless it's post-apocalyptic)".

Ewoks are up in arms. Wookiees are up in your arms. But to get on an architectural bent, there's no implicit reason as to why terrestrial engineering wouldn't use wood if it were locally available. Assuming it was available and environmentally practical (i.e. it wasn't a constant 100% humidity on a planet where termites are the size of footballs), it would have the same advantages in THE FUTURE that it has now: it's cheap, lightweight, pliable, and attractive.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Feb 17th '12, 05:50

RyokoTK wrote:But to get on an architectural bent, there's no implicit reason as to why terrestrial engineering wouldn't use wood if it were locally available. Assuming it was available and environmentally practical (i.e. it wasn't a constant 100% humidity on a planet where termites are the size of footballs), it would have the same advantages in THE FUTURE that it has now: it's cheap, lightweight, pliable, and attractive.


I agree completely. What I was saying is that it just doesn't look good when it's combined together on the same surface.

Edit: To elucidate, "doesn't look good" in the sense that it looks out of place if the reason behind the combination isn't explained or implied or logical (as is the case with the S'pht), and in the sense that wood just isn't a typical surface material when it comes to visual cues that symbolize sci-fi. Imagine hardwood floors on the Millennium Falcon..."What!?" Yeah, exactly. You start thinking about Wookies in slippers and maybe even C-3PO in an apron.
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Feb 17th '12, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 17th '12, 07:38

Ares, how would you characterize texture 08 as numbered here?

I see it as a thin panel of some nicer looking material, like the S'pht equivalent of sheetrock or drywall, that was laid down to cover up an underlying structural frame. Part of the panel has been ripped away, so that the frame is visible behind the large tear through the middle. Because of this texture, we can say that texture 05 is what the panel looks like fully intact, and texture 18 is what the frame looks like by itself. So as I understand the textures, the underlying structure is seen in some cases. This is part of why I cited other lava textures when explaining how I think 15 could contain wood.
User avatar

Crater Creator

Post Feb 17th '12, 09:15

Crater Creator wrote:Ares, how would you characterize texture 08 as numbered here?

I see it as a thin panel of some nicer looking material, like the S'pht equivalent of sheetrock or drywall, that was laid down to cover up an underlying structural frame. Part of the panel has been ripped away, so that the frame is visible behind the large tear through the middle.

I agree that the outer layer is laid over an underlying structural frame. But I disagree with the panel being nicer looking material -- it seems pretty clear to me that it's taken the brunt of the wear and tear/weathering/aging/rusting (makes sense since it's exposed to the elements (more so anyway), and thinner than the underlying structure). I interpret the outer layer as being sturdy (but not too thick) paneling with a surface material of (or similar to) corroded metal, or possibly paneling mimicking rock. But it's difficult for me to pinpoint the exact surface material (as I expect it is for all of us), due to the low resolution and limited palette of the original texture. Whatever it is, the paneling seems to have become somewhat sludgy over the years (probably from leaks in the pipes).

Crater Creator wrote:Because of this texture, we can say that texture 05 is what the panel looks like fully intact, and texture 18 is what the frame looks like by itself. So as I understand the textures, the underlying structure is seen in some cases.


I definitely agree! But remember that not all textures necessarily use the same material for the underlying structure.

Crater Creator wrote:This is part of why I cited other lava textures when explaining how I think 15 could contain wood.

Here's where we disagree. Wood has a very distinct surface texture, and I'm not seeing any of its qualities here. So while I can't argue against wood being used as an unseen material, I don't think it exists as visible in any of the textures.

Goran, texture 16 in the above link is one of my favorites -- beautiful work there. But I think it could be more faithful to the original by making the fissures in the rock more prominent.
Edit: The same cracks would likewise be accented in other similar textures (though not necessarily to the same degree), such as texture 20.
Last edited by Ares Ex Machina on Feb 17th '12, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 17th '12, 13:53

Think of texture 5 as drywall and it makes more sense. They just use a concrete or metal frame because S'pht architecture is much chunkier and larger than our own.
User avatar

RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Feb 17th '12, 18:57

Goran,

I'm blown away by your updated Infinity textures, but I'm much more a fan of the original game. Have you considered applying your talents to M1 A1? Even updating the TTEP with bump/glow maps would be nice.

Thanks,
-Chris
Multiades

Post Feb 17th '12, 23:39

Before you guys get too philosophical about this, know that the infinity texture designer was lazy/smart enough to create a lot textures by combinations.

Chances are that texture 05 is a result of some random experiments, which the designer thought looked good enough for a rock/mountain texture.
Attachments
insanity.png
insanity.png (87.72 KiB) Viewed 3829 times
Last edited by goran on Feb 17th '12, 23:49, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

goran

Post Feb 17th '12, 23:46

goran wrote:Before you guys get too philosophical about this, know that the infinity texture designer was lazy/smart enough to create a lot textures by combinations.

Wow, I never caught texture 012 mixed in. Nice find!
Last edited by President People on Feb 17th '12, 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
Love Marathon, and also play Doom on modern source ports? You might like these skins!
User avatar

President People

Post Feb 17th '12, 23:49

President People wrote:Wow, I never caught texture 012 mixed in. Nice find!


Once you see it you cannot unsee it =(
Last edited by goran on Feb 17th '12, 23:50, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

goran

PreviousNext

Return to Artwork and Music



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users