Wall climbing with grenades in Marathon, Aleph One 1.1b3 v.

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Wall climbing with grenades in Marathon, Aleph One 1.1b3 v.

Post Oct 24th '13, 17:58

I started this discussion in another unrelated topic, starting in this post, but now I did a new surprising finding related to this issue and decided to start a new topic dedicated to this subject only. Before sharing the new finding, I'll briefly summarize the relevant discussion started in the other topic:

I started playing Aleph One 1.0.2 version of Marathon for Windows (Marathon-20120514-Win.zip) which I believe is the latest stable release of Aleph One. Until someone in these forums told me that the latest beta version allows rescue missions and also has the value of using the original game assets and having more of the original features. He told me that every detail of the original Marathon has been preserved and recreated in that version, including flying with the Flamethrower or Alien Weapon in low-gravity, and wall-climbing with grenades (not meaning grenade hopping). Since then, I put aside the stable release and started playing latest beta version (Marathon-20130813-Win.zip). But then, I got stuck in the Deprivation Chamber in the level 'Never Burn Money', because in spite of my many attempts, I couldn't do the wall-climbing to reach the teleporter, even though I used the exact same technique of this video, which is "easily" reproducible. The reason why I couldn't do it was because as soon as I fired the second grenade, I was propelled backwards (and up), rather than forward as it should be. So, I figured out an alternative way of doing it, a workaround: I climbed the opposite wall backwards (see this video), which is more difficult to accomplish than to climb the wall in a "normal" way, moving forward towards the goal! But you could ask: How do I know that it's more difficult to climb that wall backwards than in the normal way (since I couldn't do it in the normal way)? Here comes the important part:

I did one surprising finding by accident in the level Bob-B-Q, when trying to climb to a high ledge to reach the save terminal in the west part of the map. I could climb the low wall moving forward, I wasn't propelled backwards when fired the second grenade! But then, after saving in that level, and loading saved game, I couldn't do it again, I had to do it backwards. I was intrigued and loaded again a saved game made in the end of the previous level (Blaspheme Quarantine), and reached the same area of the level Bob-B-Q where I did the wall-climbing before and tried again. I could easily do the wall climbing forward once again! I repeated it several times, without saving game, as there's a 2x Shield Regenerator there and I could climb the wall forward every time with ease! But then, I saved game and loaded it and I couldn't do it again!

My preliminary conclusion was that the wall-climbing can be (easily) done in the normal way, as it should be, as long as you don't load any saved game made in that same level in which you're trying to do it.

I confirmed this, by loading a saved game made in the level 'Bigger Guns Nearby' and playing all the way through (without using any saved game) until Deprivation Chamber of level 'Never Burn Money' and then, I could easily climb that tall wall leading to the teleporter in a normal way! Just before trying to do it, I made a saved game. After doing the climbing successfully, I loaded that saved game made just before and tried to repeat the deed, but it was impossible anyhow: the character was always projected backwards after second grenade. It's weird, but true! My conclusion was confirmed.

Now I ask everyone who is interested in Marathon physics or wall climbing with grenades, to try and verify my finding in their own games. I'd like to know the reason to this odd behaviour, and if this issue was present in the original Marathon game, or is just a failure of Aleph One.
Last edited by Hugo_Pt on Oct 30th '13, 16:37, edited 2 times in total.
Hugo_Pt

Post Oct 24th '13, 18:10

That is not an issue in the original Marathon. You may have found a bug in the beta, though! Thanks for following this through. I'll investigate.
User avatar

treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 24th '13, 22:53

Spider Mjolnir, Spider Mjolnir
does whatever a spider can
with grenades, climbs the walls
kills the pfhor, any size

Look out! here comes Spider Mjolnir!

-

I know nothing rhymes. Shut up BOB.
User avatar

ukimalefu

Post Oct 25th '13, 00:15

broken clock wrote:Shut up BOB.
patrick
末法

Post Oct 29th '13, 17:14

TLDR?

Hugo_Pt wrote:wall-climbing can be (easily) done in the normal way, as it should be, as long as you don't load any saved game made in that same level in which you're trying to do it.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Oct 30th '13, 00:51

I recently got stuck in the deprivation chamber myself. I'm glad somebody else made a thread about it to confirm that it's not just me sucking at it (though I'm pretty sure I suck at it).
VikingBoyBilly

Post Oct 30th '13, 16:30

VikingBoyBilly wrote:I recently got stuck in the deprivation chamber myself. I'm glad somebody else made a thread about it to confirm that it's not just me sucking at it (though I'm pretty sure I suck at it).

Please verify my finding in your game. If you want to test it in the Deprivation Chamber (which is a good place to test it, because of temporary invulnerability), you'll have to load a saved game made in the previous level, 'Bigger Guns Nearby', and play all the way through until Deprivation Chamber, without using any saved game made in the level 'Never Burn Money'. Before you do, please watch this video, to see the easily reproducible climbing technique in it. Also, disable the 'Auto-Recenter View' option in PREFERENCES>CONTROLS before you do it. I'm sure everybody can do it, once knowing the right technique, and actually seeing how it is done.

Ares Ex Machina wrote:TLDR?

Hugo_Pt wrote:wall-climbing can be (easily) done in the normal way, as it should be, as long as you don't load any saved game made in that same level in which you're trying to do it.

I rarely use acronyms, and confess I had to check an internet slang dictionary to see what TLDR means. But you quoted the most important part of the topic, which summarizes the crux of the matter, the bug finding. Any doubts about it?
Hugo_Pt

Post Nov 7th '13, 23:46

Hugo_Pt wrote:But you quoted the most important part of the topic, which summarizes the crux of the matter, the bug finding. Any doubts about it?


Nah, just quoting the part that matters for people who don't want to read such a long post. By the way, I like the red.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Feb 11th '14, 16:27

For the record, this bug was fixed in the final 1.1 release. Save files made with the betas are still broken, so you have to start a new game. After that, grenade climbing will work even after you continue from a saved game.
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Hopper


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