Blastfrog's shitty suggestions thread

Have a question, suggestion, or comment about Aleph One's features and functionality (Lua, MML, the engine itself, etc)? Post such topics here.

Re: Blastfrog's shitty suggestions thread

Post Jul 14th '16, 00:09

It should have been obvious that I've always been a dirty cheater.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 14th '16, 00:19

RyokoTK wrote:Did you know that you can just write an MML script that controls FOV?
Code: Select all
WAY TOO DIFFICULT


He knew it. See code change above.
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Jul 14th '16, 00:34

Oh I guess he did say he knew it, but I didn't bother reading any of these posts.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 14th '16, 19:39

RyokoTK wrote:Did you know that you can just write an MML script that controls FOV?
Yes, but that is not nearly as convenient as a menu option, and most people don't know that, nor would most people be willing to bother writing one.

I am far more concerned with average users outside of this community getting a good gameplay experience than those already deeply familiar with how A1 works.
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Blastfrog

Post Jul 14th '16, 20:53

I agree with Blastfrog that expanding the Marathon community and making Aleph One accessible to people currently outside that community should be a top priority for A1 development. And I'm also uncertain about where people like irons or W'rkncacnter fit into that picture. <_<
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PerseusSpartacus
Somewhere in the 19th Century...

Post Jul 14th '16, 21:47

Sounds like you guys want to work on a new project with a different set of goals. Luckily it's open source so there's nothing stopping you from forking the project.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 14th '16, 22:20

I don't want to see Aleph One change that much, I just want better mouse control and easier FOV control. I would prefer to see Aleph One get these features and not a fork. I don't want to see splintering of an already tiny userbase, the more unification, the better.
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Blastfrog

Post Jul 14th '16, 23:03

PerseusSpartacus wrote:And I'm also uncertain about where people like irons or W'rkncacnter fit into that picture. <_<

You can hate me, but without me creating this topic, Blastfrog's topics would have been completely ignored, and we wouldn't have had any discussion at all. And what did Irons do? He didn't even say anything until you guys called him out by name.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 14th '16, 23:27

Wrkncacnter wrote:without me creating this topic, Blastfrog's topics would have been completely ignored, and we wouldn't have had any discussion at all.
That is very true, I appreciate it, whether it was your intention or not to foster discussion.

I should apologize for coming off as self-important earlier in this thread.
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Blastfrog

Post Jul 17th '16, 20:25

Blastfrog is right about improving the community size. However, I think it will take A LOT more than just adding the FOV option. As I've said before there's a lot to consider (60fps suppport, support for script languages other than lua such as ruby, the ability to reload your weapon, the ability to bind a function to both a keyboard key & mouse button [similar to Halo], support for larger levels, a true pause menu with saves/loads options, ect.).
The problem is though, we don't have enough people to undertake such a project.
This gives us two options:
Attempt to gain more community members to help improve Aleph One so we can gain more community members (this option tends to form a vicious cycle and will end with us just tiring our selves out)
....Or we could *all* temporarily put aside all our projects (scenarios, plugins, ect.) in order to combine our efforts on improving the engine. Those of us who have not yet picked up a programming book will need to do so now.

It's up to you guys though. If you don't want me to rock the boat, I wont.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jul 17th '16, 20:42

liar
patrick
末法

Post Jul 17th '16, 21:49

3371-Alpha wrote:....Or we could *all* temporarily put aside all our projects (scenarios, plugins, ect.)

OK, I'll put aside my mararthon related projects and put the same amount of effort into implementing one of these things.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 18th '16, 00:05

I’ve got a 1917 Silvertone hand-crank record player and oodles of 78’s (and some 80’s) to play on it. And I play them on it. It works great but it is a 1917 Silvertone. I could spend a lot o cash and time and effort, add electricity, and rework it to play LP’s or even CD’s. But then it would not be a 1917 Silvertone playing 78’s just like in 1917. If’n I want to play CD’s, I use a CD player.

I also play 78’s on modern equipment, but I do it to play 78 format. I could convert the 78’s to CD’s but then I wouldn’t be playing 78’s.

Yes, the community is small, or perhaps, exclusive. One o the problems with having a nice comfortable, focused community is that there are always people coming in and trying to change it. It’s like a person going into an antique car club and saying “Hey! Let’s all buy new cars! Those 1925 Lincoln Roadsters really aren’t very fast, you know.”
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Jul 18th '16, 00:37

yes, but this is a game, you see.

As of right now, there is no way of playing marathon at the quality most people require (outside of the xbox port, which is not really a factor). May I reiterate: the aleph one engine is what drives most of the new players and modders away.
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General Tacticus

Post Jul 18th '16, 01:33

General Tacticus wrote:the aleph one engine is what drives most of the new players and modders away.

Yep, that's exactly why I want to fix it.
HelviusRufus wrote:I also play 78’s on modern equipment, but I do it to play 78 format. I could convert the 78’s to CD’s but then I wouldn’t be playing 78’s.

Not entirely, Durandal for XBox uses a different engine....but that doesn't mean it's not Durandal.
HelviusRufus wrote:It’s like a person going into an antique car club and saying “Hey! Let’s all buy new cars! Those 1925 Lincoln Roadsters really aren’t very fast, you know.”

I'm not asking you to buy new cars, just asking you to upgrade their engines and add nitrous.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jul 18th '16, 01:38

in my day if we didn't like how a game played we played other games

admittedly alpha has few options
patrick
末法

Post Jul 18th '16, 01:58

patrick wrote:in my day if we didn't like how a game played we played other games

Well this ain't your day no more, grandpa! Bungie released the source so if we don't like how it plays, all we have to do is modify it!
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jul 18th '16, 04:40

Or, in the case of this thread, passive-aggressively tell other people to do the work for them.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jul 18th '16, 14:10

3371-Alpha wrote:I'm not asking you to buy new cars, just asking you to upgrade their engines and add nitrous.

Pretty funny paired with your sig. Somehow I can't imagine telling you "you need to upgrade to a modern system but you can keep the case and outdated OS" is going to go well.
w00se

Post Jul 18th '16, 16:34

3371-Alpha wrote:
General Tacticus wrote:the aleph one engine is what drives most of the new players and modders away.

Yep, that's exactly why I want to fix it.


For all the faults it might have, I don't think the engine is responsible for a lack of new players. I think Marathon's lack of popularity in general (both in the past and the present) is more responsible for this. Marathon was never the cultural milestone that, let's say, Doom was, so the Aleph One engine could be pristine perfect and it wouldn't matter because most people wouldn't care. There's not enough clout and conversation going on about Marathon (there's no game critics still analyzing Marathon's game design). There's not really a Marathon community to become a part of. Whereas games with greater cultural significance (like Doom, Thief, Monkey Island, etc.) will get played and talked about by people regardless of how clunky they or their emulators may or may not be.

I honestly can't think of anything that would really bring a lot of players to Marathon and Aleph One. Anything done with the Marathon engine these days would be considered just a novelty. Even a major project like Halothon might get some significant attention, but that wouldn't last long (if something like Brutal Doom was done for Marathon, even 7 years ago, I don't think anyone would care).

I think we have to just be resigned to the steady trickle of one new person a year who actually sticks around for whatever reason.
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philtron

Post Jul 18th '16, 19:02

RyokoTK wrote:Or, in the case of this thread, passive-aggressively tell other people to do the work for them.

Apple inc. wrote:if you want if done right (or just done in general) do it yourself.

3371-Alpha wrote:Personally, I've bought a few "Learn to Program C" books and I'm already practicing. I advise you to do the same.


w00se wrote:Pretty funny paired with your sig. Somehow I can't imagine telling you "you need to upgrade to a modern system but you can keep the case and outdated OS" is going to go well.

I'm willing to upgrade my computer (with exception to the motherboard, because without that it just wouldn't be a powermac g5) if you're willing to loan me the money to do so. You see, upgrading hardware is not the same as upgrading software. Hardware cost money, especially if you're broke like me. Software on the other hand, you don't like it, rewrite it & recompile it (or hex edit it if you don't have the source).
philtron wrote:For all the faults it might have, I don't think the engine is responsible for a lack of new players. I think Marathon's lack of popularity in general (both in the past and the present) is more responsible for this. Marathon was never the cultural milestone that, let's say, Doom was, so the Aleph One engine could be pristine perfect and it wouldn't matter because most people wouldn't care. There's not enough clout and conversation going on about Marathon (there's no game critics still analyzing Marathon's game design). There's not really a Marathon community to become a part of. Whereas games with greater cultural significance (like Doom, Thief, Monkey Island, etc.) will get played and talked about by people regardless of how clunky they or their emulators may or may not be.

I honestly can't think of anything that would really bring a lot of players to Marathon and Aleph One. Anything done with the Marathon engine these days would be considered just a novelty. Even a major project like Halothon might get some significant attention, but that wouldn't last long (if something like Brutal Doom was done for Marathon, even 7 years ago, I don't think anyone would care).

I think we have to just be resigned to the steady trickle of one new person a year who actually sticks around for whatever reason.

I understand it won't make people run to it, but it will get it on the map a little more.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jul 18th '16, 19:16

General Tacticus wrote:May I reiterate: the aleph one engine is what drives most of the new players and modders away.

If the engine is the issue, why not use a different engine? There are plenty of modern ones with free mouse look, modern networking, great graphics, etc.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jul 18th '16, 19:21

Are any of them free/open source though?
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Jul 18th '16, 20:59

Nope, Alephone is the only open source game engine on the internet.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 18th '16, 22:12

treellama wrote:
General Tacticus wrote:May I reiterate: the aleph one engine is what drives most of the new players and modders away.

If the engine is the issue, why not use a different engine? There are plenty of modern ones with free mouse look, modern networking, great graphics, etc.


Yes, but none of them run marathon, you see.

If say, Zdoom could faithfully run marathon, then I'd already be there.

I already have Unreal 4 for all my serious stuff, but Marathon is the game that I like. I'm not here for the engine, I'm here for the game.
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General Tacticus

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