Those pesky map indices

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Those pesky map indices

Post Jun 22nd '19, 19:38

I think my understanding of the limit on map indices is flawed.

I’ve largely finished the final level of Where Monsters Are in Dreams (chronologically within the story, not in terms of development cycle). When I finished my first draft of the geometry, there were 1,970 polygons. Aleph One wouldn’t load it. I expected this and deleted several ambient sound objects, but each of them had no discernible effect on whether the map would load. So I thought, “OK, the problem must be partially related to polygon count.” I simplified the map geometry by twenty polygons, and it loaded fine.

Now, it’s possible that it was just coincidental that I got below the limit right after deleting those twenty polygons – maybe if I’d deleted the polygons first, it still would’ve crashed until I deleted the ambient sounds. But I’m sceptical of this, and the screenshot below is why. At the risk of a minor spoiler:

Spoiler:
Screen Shot 2019-06-22 at 16.19.48.png

This is the geometry for the opening segment of the final level. I’m not going to show the whole thing, because the other parts aren’t relevant. The selected ambient sound object is one of the ones I initially deleted. However, I put it back after simplifying the map geometry further (the current polygon count of the level is 1,856), and it runs without a hitch.

There are about 500 polygons in this general area of the map. My original understanding of map indices was that Aleph One creates one map index for each polygon an ambient sound object is audible on. However, if that’s the case, this sound object should be crucial. I don’t know if it’s audible from all 500 polygons, but it should be audible from at least 200, maybe 300 of them. But the map still works now.

This isn’t the only ambient sound object I’ve placed near a complicated segment of the map, either. Again, the map still loads fine. It’s as though reducing the number of polygons greatly increased the number of sound objects Aleph One will let me get away with.

At the same time, the limit can’t be exclusively polygon count. The current revision of “The Haunted Beacon” has 2,062 polygons, and obviously, Aleph One still plays it without a hitch. It’s possible that the difference is that Windbreaker just didn’t use as many polygons in a single area, but if that’s the case, is the problem also partially that there are so many polygons clustered together, beyond the mere usage of ambient sound objects in those clusters specifically?

I just feel like I’m flying blind here. Can someone explain the limits more accurately for me? I can keep doing a trial-and-error approach here by just seeing whether a map will load, but I think I’d be able to work better on this level (and on Ryoko’s Chronicles level, and on others yet unbuilt) if I had a more solid understanding of what I’m up against. Obviously the easiest solution would just be not to create levels with more than 1,024 polygons, but I think that era of Marathon mapmaking is over. And honestly, I’m fairly glad – there were several Chronicles levels I never finished back in the Forge era because I hit the polygon limits and couldn’t figure out where to go from there. But I’d like to have a more solid understanding of exactly where the boundaries are, because it will give me a more reliable intuition for what I can get away with, and thus a greater ability to plan future levels.

If anyone can help, I’d be greatly appreciative. I suspect I’m not the only one who would benefit; I’m almost certain this will also help Windbreaker with further revisions to “The Haunted Beacon”, at the very least. Thanks in advance.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jun 22nd '19, 21:20

It’s possible that the difference is that Windbreaker just didn’t use as many polygons in a single area, but if that’s the case, is the problem also partially that there are so many polygons clustered together, beyond the mere usage of ambient sound objects in those clusters specifically?

I'm no expert but I'm going to say that is the source of the problem as I've had the same problem and fixed it by getting rid of a large mass of very small polygons and redoing that area of the map with only a handful of larger polygons.
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Flowers

Post Jun 22nd '19, 22:13

I think this has been explained a number of times elsewhere, but you should just stop making such complex levels. If you need 2000 polygons, you're using the wrong engine.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jun 22nd '19, 23:31

I'm no expert but I'm going to say that is the source of the problem as I've had the same problem and fixed it by getting rid of a large mass of very small polygons and redoing that area of the map with only a handful of larger polygons.

Well, that could just mean the (presumably) reduced polygon count was the cause, unless you’re saying you then used that same number of polygons (but larger ones) elsewhere. But my gut feeling is that this is probably correct and that the engine really doesn’t like large numbers of small polygons clustered together.

I think this has been explained a number of times elsewhere,

Do you have a link to the other explanations, or do you just mean the “stop making complex levels” part?

but you should just stop making such complex levels. If you need 2000 polygons, you're using the wrong engine.

Unfortunately, it’s a bit late to convert several dozen levels to another engine. But yeah, I’d only intended to use about 1,800 polygons on this level, but once I began filling in the geometry, I learnt that I’d put in a bit more detail than I thought I had. It’s the polygon corollary to Hofstadter’s Law, I suppose.

Ah well; I’ll just have to live with running into this problem from time to time. Or else, if I ever learn C++ well enough, figure out a way to raise the limitation to something stupid like 16 million and introduce it as a code branch for 1.4… depending on how much work that would take.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jun 22nd '19, 23:49

The Man wrote:Do you have a link to the other explanations, or do you just mean the “stop making complex levels” part?

viewtopic.php?p=73316#p73316
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Flowers

Post Jun 23rd '19, 00:13

Oh, thanks. For some reason I’d been under the impression that it was only sound objects that ate up map indices when polygons were close together, but obviously that’s not the case. No wonder simplifying the geometry helped so much. I think that answers my question.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jun 23rd '19, 00:27

If you're aiming for 1800 polygons, you're going to have a bad time.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jun 23rd '19, 00:29

Yeah, next time I’m going to aim for a lower polygon target. Though if, as I suspect, this is a corollary of Hofstadter’s Law, it still won’t matter.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jun 23rd '19, 00:35

The Man wrote:Ah well; I’ll just have to live with running into this problem from time to time. Or else, if I ever learn C++ well enough, figure out a way to raise the limitation to something stupid like 16 million and introduce it as a code branch for 1.4… depending on how much work that would take.

Or get better at making maps!
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jun 23rd '19, 00:37

If I’d known that placing that many polygons that close together would eat up that many map indices even if I didn’t place any sound objects near them, I wouldn’t have done it so much! Half the battle etc. That’s why I asked for clarification, so I could avoid the problem in the future.

There was a suggestion in that thread Flowers linked to add a feature in Weland to estimate the number of map indices used in a map, BTW. I would support this and find it very useful if there’s time to build it. I suppose it’d also be possible to create a plugin to do that, if I had any idea how to write them.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jun 25th '19, 21:12

So a couple things occur to me:

1. Is there a good reason the map indices are a signed rather than unsigned variable? I can't imagine the game ever needing to access, say, map index -10, to pick a completely random value out of a hat. Would this be difficult to change so it's unsigned and you can get 65,536 instead of 32,768?

2. Is there a way to get the number of map indices within Lua? The game would presumably know this info, so it'd give developers a better clue as to how much they have left to work with without necessitating the creation of a Weland plugin.

Perhaps these can be features for 1.4 if they're too much work for 1.3 (I suspect #1, at least, would be). Thanks in advance.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jun 28th '19, 12:11

For 1, I'm hesitant to just increase the number of map indexes without optimizing all the things they're used for. It's at a good balance right now.

For 2, if you're just looking for a general guideline on making maps, you've already been given one. The geometry you show in the first post is insane. Take some time and study Infinity's level design, review Hastur's Workshop. Meditate on negative space. Flow.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jun 28th '19, 17:10

Regarding 1, that seems fair.

Regarding 2, another minor spoiler:

Spoiler:
That opening bit of geometry is actually a segment I reused from the scenario's first level for the sake of continuity; I didn't create it myself. (Even the names of the levels are linked, I should note.) Had I known the engine calculated map indices the way it does, the first thing I'd have done would've been to simplify the geometry. It looks really cool, but it definitely helps to have more room to work on the rest of the level comfortably.

Anyway, since I want continuity between the first and last levels of the game, there are certain segments I'm largely stuck with, though I suppose I can go back and submit a simplified version of the first level as well. Which I might do in a month or two.

(This spoiler is why the first post also is spoiler tagged, BTW)
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 3rd '19, 18:52

Wrkncacnter wrote:I think this has been explained a number of times elsewhere, but you should just stop making such complex levels. If you need 2000 polygons, you're using the wrong engine.


To be fair, the games Hedon and Extermination Day on id Tech 1's primary sourceport (a much more primitive engine in vanilla form than Forge or its sourceport, the latter of which I prefer) have pretty complex maps. I think Hedon's most complex ones are later in the game, as I'm only early on (just after leaving the caves) but ED Episode 2's city levels are pretty intricate. Dead Streets is a prime example. Sorry for the obnoxious sounding music in the videos I linked to. The actual merged map has more appropriate music, or at least my current copy does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIBcTwB ... J&index=17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNezfqF ... ex=17&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5rWvPC ... J&index=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toHjhgw ... J&index=21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCEs9OW ... J&index=23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_62xvE ... J&index=24

Not to use this particular 2.5D game to compare to Aleph One limitation wise again but I don't know of any other engines of this type that exceed the vanilla engine limits like that. Perhaps there's Ion Maiden on the Build engine but I haven't played much of it to know for sure. I think Aleph One certainly comes close but a lot of that seems to be with MML and Lua scripting for the most advanced stuff, which can't be done in the editors. Eternal 1.2 and Marathon 1 Redux are the most complex mods I know, not counting Rubicon as I'm less familiar with that one.

I think the only time ED had issues with the big maps was Push, and even then that's because the mod built for the map file is a resource hog at times on my ancient machine.
Last edited by Lion O Cyborg on Jul 3rd '19, 19:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Lion O Cyborg
UK (which is IN EUROPE!)

Post Jul 3rd '19, 19:11

Are you trying to make a point, or are you just advertising random games?
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 3rd '19, 19:16

Wrkncacnter wrote:Are you trying to make a point, or are you just advertising random games?


My point is that 2.5D engines can have complex maps greater than 1800 polygons like the OP wants if they are built for it. Aleph One appears not to be, especially since the vertex grid on current editors is still too damn small. (using a 1920x1080 monitor with the default 1 unit grid scale and zoomed out to the grid edge as an example.) Ideally, the grid should be your average MS Excel amount of usable cell space size but that's just wishful thinking.

Last I checked, Aleph One was supposed to have removed the limits of Forge entirely, especially polygon limits, so hearing that it has trouble indexing sectors for maps designed with that in mind is honestly quite baffling.
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Lion O Cyborg
UK (which is IN EUROPE!)

Post Jul 3rd '19, 20:23

It hasn't removed all the limits; it's just removed some of them. Removing the limit on map indices would cause a major hit in performance, from what I understand. I wouldn't mind if someone doubled the number from 32,768 to 65,536, but honestly I think I'd like to see the limitation on physical map size removed even more. However, I expect that would require a huge amount of work (if I understand right, it would essentially require rewriting the file format and therefore all editors for the game as well), so I don't particularly expect it to occur.

And Phoenix is definitely the most consistently complex finished scenario out there. We've got a couple maps in WMAiD that are probably slightly more complex than Phoenix's most complex levels, but even then, it's close.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 3rd '19, 20:52

The Man wrote:It hasn't removed all the limits; it's just removed some of them. Removing the limit on map indices would cause a major hit in performance, from what I understand. I wouldn't mind if someone doubled the number from 32,768 to 65,536, but honestly I think I'd like to see the limitation on physical map size removed even more. However, I expect that would require a huge amount of work (if I understand right, it would essentially require rewriting the file format and therefore all editors for the game as well), so I don't particularly expect it to occur.

And Phoenix is definitely the most consistently complex finished scenario out there. We've got a couple maps in WMAiD that are probably slightly more complex than Phoenix's most complex levels, but even then, it's close.


I see. I agree with you on at least raising the remaining limits to something too big to reach and I do realise it would take a lot of work to get right and working fine on all machines. Even the GZ Doom builds used by my examples above weren't coded particularly quickly and they may still have limits I don't know about.

I've been meaning to look at Phoneix some time, but I'll need to continue with the Eternal 1.2 Tour of Duty with VBB first.
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Lion O Cyborg
UK (which is IN EUROPE!)

Post Jul 3rd '19, 21:20

Treelama's right on the money, pointing us to Infinity and Hastur. Some of the limitations of the engine contribute to its charm and the joy of finding ways around them :-)

It would, on the other hand, be nice to have larger map sizes. But, I imagine Bungie would have done so for Infinity if it didn't pose major file format issues, given Poor Yorick - Counfound Delivery, and Where Some Rarely Go - Thing What Kicks…. You can reduce player size at the cost of granularity, or try to pull off what Ryoko and Wrk have done with Metroidvania and AOPID, respectively, at the cost of being insane.

If Pheonix is as complex as you say, perhaps I should give it a go. I've certainly got some complex ideas lined up for M1R, as well as the knowledge of how to pull them off, thanks to working on Eternal and Wrk walking me through Lua.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Jul 4th '19, 01:08

Just from a pure polygon count perspective, Phoenix has seven levels topping 1,500 polygons:

Stone Temple Pilates - 1,772 polygons
S’phtstorm - 1,751 polygons
Escape Two Thousand - 1,795 polygons
Exercise in Excess - 1,727 polygons
Sanctum Sanctorum - 1,756 polygons
Dark Pfhorces - 1,582 polygons
Red Eye Express - 1,563 polygons

Most of the remainder are in the 1,000-1,100 polygon range, with a handful of others in the 1,100-1,500 range and a few short exposition levels well below that. I’m sure the median is something like 1,080 and the mean is probably closer to 1,250. For comparison, only one Eternal level tops 1,500 polygons, which is “Killing the Giants as They Sleep” (1,683, to be exact). Chronicles, meanwhile, has just “Return to Yggdrasill” (1,760) and “In the Shadow of Our Pale Companion” (1,843, and based on Ryoko’s architecture anyway). I think there are currently four or five WMAiD levels that top 1,500 polygons, but I don’t think I have all the latest revisions. At the moment, “The Haunted Beacon” has the most polygons of any working level I’ve ever seen, at 2,062.

Of course, polygon count isn’t a completely reliable barometer of how complicated a level is, since Rubicon contains some of the most complicated levels ever made in the engine, and none of them topped 1,024 due to the limits on the engine at the time. A case could be made that Phoenix and Rubicon demonstrate different kinds of complexity, I suppose. Ryoko’s levels aren’t as disorienting as C Lund’s (few people’s are), but they’ve definitely got their own kind of complexity to them.

The combat is a lot faster paced in Phoenix than it is in most other Marathon scenarios, which is for better and worse IMO – I’d have been happier if the monster firing speed had been nerfed a bit, but overall the map design is so good that I can’t complain too much. It’s at least not gratuitously difficult like Red is. It also has a really cool arsenal of weapons and some good use of scripting.

Anyway, I’d strongly recommend it.

I should try that “reducing player size” thing at some point.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 4th '19, 01:17

I snagged it while at the library, maybe tomorrow I'll have a look.

Polygon count may be a portion of the barometer for detail, but I'm thinking of under-the-hood complexity, of scenarios such as Missed Island and AOPID.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Jul 4th '19, 01:52

The Man wrote:Just from a pure polygon count perspective, Phoenix has seven levels topping 1,500 polygons:

That's it? Yuge has thousands of maps topping 1500 polygons.

Also, don't forget about the 2247 polygon AOPID map. You should study that one to see how to make maps properly.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 4th '19, 03:15

Oh yeah, I forgot about “Evil Undead Phantasms Must Die”, lol. But it’s 2,147, unless there’s a new version with more polygons. I think I forgot about it because I was specifically thinking of maps created specifically for A1, and I was under the impression that “Phantasms” is just a direct translation of a Pathways level to A1.

And yeah, Yuge has a lot of 1,500+ polygon maps, but Yuge has a lot of maps, period. There are only 35 levels in the main campaign of Phoenix, including secrets levels. I think 20% is a respectable ratio. Yuge seems to have a similar ratio, though I absolutely did not go through all 256 levels to figure out the exact value, much less all the levels of all the expansions.

Phoenix does have quite a bit of scripting under the hood as well, though not nearly as much as AOPiD. And if you’re looking for other scenarios with complicated pre-Lua mapmaking tricks, grab Gemini Station if you haven’t already.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 4th '19, 08:08

The Man wrote:it’s 2,147, unless there’s a new version with more polygons.

Not sure where you got a version with 2147. Overall, I think you took that post more seriously than you were supposed to.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 4th '19, 08:58

That's pretty much my brand, isn't it? [MTongue]

Anyway, the 2,147-polygon version is from the beta you sent me a while back. I should probably get the finished version.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

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