Where can I find the Marathon special editions?

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Where can I find the Marathon special editions?

Post Oct 22nd '18, 22:27

I want to play Marathon 2 special edition with the music but I can't simply add the tracks to my vanilla Aleph One Marathon 2 and the link to the map with the tracks preinstalled on Simplici7y is dead and the person who posted it didn't bother to update the link.

http://simplici7y.com/items/marathon-2- ... undtrack-3

Failing getting the special editions, does anyone have a copy of the missing map file that could link to here? I want to have that music in-game as it just isn't the same without both music and ambience like Eternal has. If such a version exists for Infinity with music included too, I'd like that as well.

The music itself I have in OGG (from Simplici7y) and MP3 format as I found here: http://www.themarathonmusic.com/downloads.html
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Lion O Cyborg

Post Oct 24th '18, 20:14

Hm, MML'ing in the music sounds like a fun side-project. I think I'll do that... and if I'm going to make a merge, I may as well do it to the win95 version, and then fix a few things the 95 version broke with respect to the Mac version. Nothing fancy, should be quick.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 25th '18, 11:05

Would you also make this map file for the Aleph One versions too? Or are all map files compatible with Aleph One?
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Lion O Cyborg

Post Oct 25th '18, 12:17

They're all compatible, but depending on how the new maps are created, you may not be able to play back films created with the original maps, or share them with others who only have the original maps. Of course, choosing the Windows 95 version ensures that anyway.

You could just play music in a music player. Or even better, play Marathon 2 as intended, with ambient sounds and no music.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 25th '18, 14:04

I could play the usual way I have done since 2012 with just ambient sounds but where's the fun in that? ;)
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Lion O Cyborg

Post Oct 25th '18, 22:47

The music is pretty good. And an external music player won't choose music based on where you are in game, you'd have to be switching out to change tracks manually, or just play on shuffle, which is a terrible way to do things.

If you wanted to share a .filA film, you could just point people to the map download, as it's only 10 MB zipped. Or better yet, make a video with A1's built-in facility and put it on YouTube, that's what most people seem to be doing these days. Having a different map won't stop you from playing netgames, either, since map information gets sent by the host.

Of course, you could always just play Marathon 2 as intended, in the original engine with no OpenGL at 640x480 resolution, as some would have you do, but as you say, where's the fun in that?
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 26th '18, 01:36

that's the only way I like to do it now
patrick
末法

Post Oct 26th '18, 20:35

OpenGL and high resolutions weren't practical when Bungie released Marathon 2. Background music was, and they purposefully chose to use ambient sounds instead.

I truly enjoy the original at 640x480 with no OpenGL for what it's worth. Internet play is kind of crappy with that engine though :)
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 27th '18, 02:24

treellama wrote:they purposefully chose to use ambient sounds instead

mararthon 2 / lh'owon owes its sense of place to this. aesthetics matter. dictating affective response through music is primitive and condescending.

phoenix was not enhanced by layering generic beats on top.

eternal's soundtrack papers over some very sloppy ambient sound placement. more attention to the latter would have established its world better than halo-esque histrionics piped through the headphones.

whatever musical cues are found necessary for a project's mood can be handled with ambient sound placement as well—see rubicon, tempus irae. it's the ambient sounds that make a mararthon map a mararthon map for me. that and fisting.
patrick
末法

Post Oct 27th '18, 06:26

patrick wrote:eternal's soundtrack papers over some very sloppy ambient sound placement.

No argument when it comes to 1.1, but I would like to think 1.2 has already fixed a fair deal of this, and will hopefully fix more of it by the final release. (I haven’t had time to go through every level for this yet.) Craig’s soundtrack is certainly not “histrionic” though. That’s crazy talk.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 27th '18, 10:38

patrick wrote:dictating affective response through music is primitive and condescending

OK but please don’t take my DuClare chateau or oceanlab
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 27th '18, 10:42

patrick wrote:
treellama wrote:they purposefully chose to use ambient sounds instead

mararthon 2 / lh'owon owes its sense of place to this. aesthetics matter. dictating affective response through music is primitive and condescending...

whatever musical cues are found necessary for a project's mood can be handled with ambient sound placement as well—see rubicon, tempus irae. it's the ambient sounds that make a mararthon map a mararthon map for me. that and fisting.


I can't disagree with this much. Using music is certainly no excuse for poor sound design. However, some people just prefer having a soundtrack, just as you two vociferously prefer not having one, and I believe in allowing people to make that choice to hear one if they want one.

There are a LOT of things like that... improvements to A1 that will probably never be implemented, because of this weird mentality of "it wasn't in the originals" or, more understandably, "it breaks compatibility with the originals," and yet, here we have transparent liquids, no switching weapons upon pickup, always run, crosshairs, chase cam, etc.. I'd love to see an A1 that had a lot more of these game-altering options, all disabled by default but selectable, with an entire preference pane devoted to them.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 27th '18, 18:39

treellama wrote:OK but please don’t take my DuClare chateau or oceanlab

admittedly unatco hq is my safe space
patrick
末法

Post Oct 27th '18, 20:04

ravenshining wrote:this weird mentality

in my mind the weird mentality is casting modding as some sort of moral imperative, which you have repeatedly done. there are plenty of games to speak to one's particular palate without insisting that every thing be like every other thing. finding the works that do (or coming to appreciate a thing on its own terms) is part of the pleasure to be derived. the alternative would be less alienating if it weren't so artless and homogenizing, like the faceless directives of a market-fixated publisher* or the body-shaming vision of a dubious cosmetic surgeon.**

your previous doubling down on blunt force equivocation-as-criticism (solaris=mararthon=whatever else one reads or views or hears) suggests there's no mutual understanding to be arrived at here. i've accepted my irreconcilable artistic differences with eternal and its partisans. there's more than one way to ruin mararthon.

* i.e., the false gospel of doing whatever must be done to "grow the community"—as if a growing gaming community is of any real value, or the attenuating of a fanbase any real loss.

** e.g., "more pixels always equals better textures"
patrick
末法

Post Oct 28th '18, 08:08

patrick wrote:there are plenty of games to speak to one's particular palate without insisting that every thing be like every other thing.


But those wouldn't be Marathon. I'm here because I love Marathon, and I love modding, not because I want Marathon to be like anything else. I can't stand most other games, really, why would I want Marathon to be more like things I hate?

patrick wrote:your previous doubling down on blunt force equivocation-as-criticism (solaris=mararthon=whatever else one reads or views or hears)


I'm afraid I don't understand what this means.

patrick wrote:i've accepted my irreconcilable artistic differences with eternal and its partisans. there's more than one way to ruin mararthon.


Why should you have to reconcile artistic differences with anyone? You have your way of playing, we have ours.
Why is it that when a couple people get excited about modding in some way, people have to butt in and say, "don't do anything, it's not marathon?" Personally, I hate Yuge, but I don't go bothering Wrk and Yuge fans about how un-Marathon I don't think Yuge is. So if you don't care for music in Marathon, why are you bothering people making a thread about music in Marathon? Just don't download mods you don't like, and play how you like to play, my making a mod for someone who wants it isn't going to ruin your experience.

If anything is ruining Marathon, it's this kind of "there is only one way!" attitude.
Last edited by ravenshining on Oct 29th '18, 02:36, edited 1 time in total.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 28th '18, 11:39

Okay, I've got something ready, a synthesis of Mac and Windows versions with a few tiny adjustments such as cleaned up texture alignment and a few split polys. Nothing like Redux, don't worry, this is a faithful rendition that should have a more universal appeal. For example, behold Charon Doesn't Make Change. On left-centre you'll see the roof Bungie added for Windows, on the right you'll see the alien teleporter they only had on Mac.

CharonDoesntMakeChange_0000.jpeg


I can't really upload things from home though, so maybe Tuesday.

Meanwhile, if you split a bog standard M2 map (windows or Mac), and add a TEXT folder under Resources, dump the contents of this zip therein, merge, and put the SE mp3 tracks in a Tracks folder, you should get music and/or fog. There are more entries in 128.txt than there are levels mind you, and some MML that may look redundant, but it has a purpose in the finished product ;-)
Attachments
TEXT.zip
(11.05 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 28th '18, 17:15

ravenshining wrote:I can't stand most other games, really, why would I want Marathon to be more like things I hate?


ravenshining wrote:I'd love to see an A1 that had a lot more of these game-altering options [from other games], all disabled by default but selectable, with an entire preference pane devoted to them.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 28th '18, 18:23

ravenshining wrote:I hate Yuge, but I don't go bothering Wrk and Yuge fans about how un-Marathon Yuge is.

I guess Yuge is technically un-Marathon since it doesn't take place in the marathon universe or really have anything to do with marathon, but I find it a funny choice of words, given taking the original marathon and making arbitrary changes to it based on your own preferences is un-Marathon in a different, far more substantial, way.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Oct 28th '18, 20:26

I don't really get getting worked up about remakes. It's not like the original games will cease to exist after they're released. Bungie themselves also admitted that some aspects of M1 could've been better, but limitations of technology and the development cycle meant that certain aspects of the game wound up being unpolished. In any case, this isn't the first time someone has remade Bungie levels (see also: Second Quest) and I'm sure it won't be the last.

I also don't understand opposing customizability. If you're not going to utilise some options, that's fine, but having them there might bring in more players, and I can't see how anyone who plays net games or makes levels would oppose that in general. I don't care too much about controller input for myself, but obviously some people do. The bigger concerns are development time and the risk of introducing bugs or bloat into the engine, but I don't get opposing optional features for the sake of being "pure". Again, as long as you can still disable them, doesn't seem like a big deal.

Yuge is incredibly fun, though, even if it has no plot in any real sense and the textures are ridiculous. The architecture makes up for the latter, in any case.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Oct 28th '18, 21:52

treellama wrote:
ravenshining wrote:I'd love to see an A1 that had a lot more of these game-altering options [from other games], all disabled by default but selectable, with an entire preference pane devoted to them.


You said "from other games," not me. When I have an idea it's inspired by Marathon and the tools we have available for it. I think the only other games I have installed right now are Minecraft, Endless Sky, and a Pokémon emulator, so unless you start seeing me advocate for reduced graphics, trading, and crafting, I think it's safe to say I'm not getting it from somewhere else. When I see people coming on here and asking for a feature because they see it in some wretched FPS, I usually argue against those.

Wrkncacnter wrote:I guess Yuge is technically un-Marathon since it doesn't take place in the marathon universe or really have anything to do with marathon, but I find it a funny choice of words, given taking the original marathon and making arbitrary changes to it based on your own preferences is un-Marathon in a different, far more substantial, way.


My apologies, Wrk, a couple words got inadvertently deleted there during editing. I don't think Yuge is un-marathon per se, the point was I think it's ridiculous to call things un-marathon when people go and make things with Anvil and Forge, and that's part of why I don't bother you. That and you're generally a friendly and helpful person.

The Man wrote:...


My thoughts exactly. I don't expect our limited team of, um, Treelama and Hopper? to implement ideas they don't care for, but it'd be nice if people were welcomed to join in rather than being shut out.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 28th '18, 23:28

ravenshining wrote:You said "from other games," not me.

The features you named were from other games. You don't play other games, apparently (but you still hate them?), so you didn't know, I guess.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Oct 29th '18, 02:45

Every feature I've named in this thread came from Marathon or Aleph One. I guess if you got your ideas for Aleph One from other games, you might say I indirectly got an idea from another game, via Aleph One, which is rather silly. About a third the things I mentioned are features I don't even like.

And yeah, I don't play games I don't like. Why would I?
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Oct 29th '18, 08:34

what i appreciated about helvius rufus was his commitment to a broad but disunited church.

a public forum is not a place you will be feted every step of the way to the enshrinement of your personal project as the definitive version of a dead but notable game. if it is not your hubristic intention to pass your work off as its superior replacement you should have eschewed the name that you gave it.

the implicit "shut up and leave us alone" contained within your above replies is more symptomatic of a "one way only" mentality than anything i have written. i have been historically obscurantist in the expression of my own views, but i do exist, unlike the mythical bestiary of "new players" that simply don't have the stomach for actually-existing-mararthon.

you opened yourself up for this by making the facetious assertion that there was no fun to be had at 640x480 (and so on, and so on). i have never overturned any altars in your personal project thread—because i have no interest in your project—but any thread can erupt into a discussion of any topic at any time because that is the nature of open forums and performative posting. private alternatives exist: the chumminess evinced by your referring to each other by christian names whilst posting under user names suggests much of your own activity should be taking place in such a setting.

negative comments do not excise your own work from the public stage. i think eternal looks hideous, reads insufferably, and plays tediously, but i do not pray for its disappearance from the world. i do not go out of my way to antagonize its creators at every turn but i can and will express myself or tease as i'm inclined or prompted in the dozen or so posts i make per year in this place while i wait for moppy to finish doog so i can die in peace.
patrick
末法

Post Oct 29th '18, 22:29

Patrick, I think you may be deriving an intent from her words that isn't present.
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General Tacticus

Post Oct 30th '18, 07:12

Right, I wasn't saying there's no value in playing Marathon as it was made, I was responding to Treelama's assertion that it would be "better" to "play Marathon 2 as intended." I suppose I shouldn't let trollish comments like that get to me, but I can't very well shut out someone as knowledgeable and helpful as Treelama. Reconciling a person's good and bad behaviour into a harmonious understanding is admittedly an aspect of social interaction I find most challenging.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

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