Bungie working on a new Marathon game

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Post Jun 20th '12, 18:59

[MDown]

If you're super excited about it, then that is the wrong emoticon. That's a thumbs down sign.
listener

Post Jun 21st '12, 05:56

I probably won't play the game unless movement speeds and recoil physics are identical to Marathon Infinity/Marathon 2. To me, that's what makes the game the best FPS multiplayer. That and the weapons. Using the pre-existing weapon balance as a basis would be important, but a new weapon or two would be cool.

Bungie: do all that with next gen graphics and a story on par with the originals and you got yourself a winner.
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Jul 7th '12, 07:57

Bungie will get my money regardless of whatever they make.

The next Marathon game may or may not be a disappointment to the trilogy fans (myself included), but I'm sure it will be a great game of its own nonetheless.
Last edited by deram_scholzara on Jul 7th '12, 07:58, edited 1 time in total.
The only sin in this world is to exploit or destroy the freedoms of another soul.
deram_scholzara
Los Angeles, CA

Post Jul 21st '12, 18:50

As long as there is a Windows version, I won't be bitching.
Marathon Speedrun Times: Discord
M1A1 - 26:57 - PB
M2 - 33:52 - PB
M2 - XBLA - 38:59 - PB
M2 - Coop with ApertureGrillz - 27:17 IGT/29:09 RTA - WR
MInf - 15:42 - WR
Minf all main levels - 27:49 - PB
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TBCR
Raleigh,NC

Post Jul 22nd '12, 02:49

Ares%20Ex%20Machina wrote:I probably won't play the game unless movement speeds and recoil physics are identical to Marathon Infinity/Marathon 2. To me, that's what makes the game the best FPS multiplayer. That and the weapons. Using the pre-existing weapon balance as a basis would be important, but a new weapon or two would be cool.

Bungie: do all that with next gen graphics and a story on par with the originals and you got yourself a winner.

IMO all they have to do to make it a successful multiplayer game iis provide the assets and engine and make it fully moddable so we can tweak the physics and disable jumping ourselves. I'm not very confident in their ability to make a good singleplayer campaign because this Bungie is used to making tube levels but we'll see. I won't really mind if they muck it up as long as they provide mod support.
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Post Jul 23rd '12, 16:30

I honestly doubt we'll see anything like the original trilogy.

I do think it'd be neat if they would re-explore the original idea they had for Marathon though. PID in space basically. After all the Dead Rising games were pretty cool with their own timed event system.
Dracheseele

Post Jul 23rd '12, 20:32

I'm extremely excited. As much as I love the original trilogy, I've been longing for a new Marathon title for a long time, and if it's finally getting made, then I'm all for it 1000%.
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Nathan92
MI

Post Aug 9th '12, 09:15

I welcome a new Marathon game especially if it is a reboot with a new storyline not that is anything wrong with the original storyline far from its just there were so many things briefly alluded to in the terminals that never made it into the actual gameplay not that everything needs to be spelled out one thing I appreciate about Bungie or at least the old Bungie although they still did it in Halo an extent, hopefully considering this their own project they will have freedom to, is that they leave some mysteries that keep you wondering nonetheless there still story elements that could be expanded on.
Last edited by Tfear7 on Aug 9th '12, 09:22, edited 1 time in total.
Tfear7

Post Aug 9th '12, 13:18

Tfear7 wrote:I welcome a new Marathon game especially if it is a reboot with a new storyline not that is anything wrong with the original storyline far from its just there were so many things briefly alluded to in the terminals that never made it into the actual gameplay not that everything needs to be spelled out one thing I appreciate about Bungie or at least the old Bungie although they still did it in Halo an extent, hopefully considering this their own project they will have freedom to, is that they leave some mysteries that keep you wondering nonetheless there still story elements that could be expanded on.


That's quite a long sentence you've got there.
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Windbreaker
South Park, CO

Post Aug 9th '12, 14:13

Holy..... that is. D:
listener

Post Aug 9th '12, 21:18

I've seen longer, but overall a new marathon may be good.
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infwaffle

Post Aug 9th '12, 23:22

gmanyo wrote:Does anyone else here think a new Marathon game is a bad idea? Not even because they might ruin it but because why on Earth do we need a new Marathon game?


You never know, it might surprise you, it could turn out to be a fantastic decision
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BeingShotAt

Post Oct 24th '12, 20:03

Tfear7 wrote:...there were so many things briefly alluded to in the terminals that never made it into the actual gameplay not that everything needs to be spelled out one thing I appreciate about Bungie...

As I recall, there's more that was alluded to than actually shown. Limitations of the engine made it hard to cinematically tell the story, so they poured 90% of it into the terminals.

That said, I do agree that it would be nice to play out more of the story. There are even non-story things I've always wanted to play; like docking the pod at the beginning of M1 and then walking in through the airlock to get to where you would normally start. Can you imagine experiencing the approach of your tiny vessel to the docking bay which is a pinhole compared to the rest of the converted moon, Deimos?

This is one of the many reasons I've wanted to do a quality Unity Engine remake for some time; if only I could afford to not work for several months.
The only sin in this world is to exploit or destroy the freedoms of another soul.
deram_scholzara
Los Angeles, CA

Post Oct 24th '12, 21:17

Deram Scholzara wrote:That said, I do agree that it would be nice to play out more of the story. There are even non-story things I've always wanted to play; like docking the pod at the beginning of M1 and then walking in through the airlock to get to where you would normally start. Can you imagine experiencing the approach of your tiny vessel to the docking bay which is a pinhole compared to the rest of the converted moon, Deimos?

This is one of the many reasons I've wanted to do a quality Unity Engine remake for some time; if only I could afford to not work for several months.



Envy's been working on a Unity project for some time now. But, it's been inactive for several months afaik.
Love Marathon, and also play Doom on modern source ports? You might like these skins!
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President People

Post Oct 25th '12, 23:20

New Marathon game, with Forge.
It must have Forge.
Any business has to look at what customers want.

Yes we want more Marathon.
But what's fun about Marathon? The FPS portion yes, even the multiplayer.
What else?

Scenario Creation.

Bungie's website has a portion dedicated to Marathon that's basically all of what the Marathon community has created.
Bungie is going to create a new Marathon game, and a Campaign editor.

Upload textures to your game console via the internet.
Monster editor, not just in-game monster behavior, but you can create custom monsters too.
In conclusion it will be a campaign editor so accessible, anyone can make the scenario of their dreams.
Shocktart

Post Oct 30th '12, 05:11

President People wrote:Envy's been working on a Unity project for some time now. But, it's been inactive for several months afaik.

Yeah, I was looking at that a while ago - it's something I'm glad Envy was messing around with, but I'm thinking of something much more polished.

Some high to low-poly surface tranfer normal mapping would be at good start at the very least - the models were all very very polygon heavy and lacked in texture quality.

If I ever got the chance to work on a remake project (if I had more spare money/time), I'd be doing a ton of ZBrushing on this stuff and baking it with xNormal (gets better results than zBrush's baking). Since it's Unity, I could also use Substances for a lot of things - maybe with some vertex painting to get localized grunge details. Man, I wish I had time to just do more art in general - these days I'm mostly just programming.

But anyway, this is pretty off-topic now.
The only sin in this world is to exploit or destroy the freedoms of another soul.
deram_scholzara
Los Angeles, CA

Post Feb 6th '13, 06:55

While the Halo games are a great series of games, I've always preferred Marathon. I believe this is because the themes are much darker such as the violence and plot. In Halo creatures just sort of get hit and bleed a little blue stuff, but never lose a limb. A new Marathon game IMO should revisit the original theme of being in a spaceship and having to ward off a pfhor invasion. It should be dark, both visually and thematically and liberal with the violence and incorporate next gen graphics. I could picture it now, exploding Bob heads, bullet riddled fighters, and massive battles on ships (and maybe between ships too). I suppose like a first person Deadspace but you gun down hordes of pfhor Marathon style and it is much more fast paced. The Vacuum levels would kick ass like that. I would enjoy sunbathing a lot more, I think. The gameplay should stay exactly the same and should continue the story somehow. And, most importantly, it should never break first person view for cinematic sequences or anything else. Great games like Marathon of course and the Half-Life series do that, and I love it. It adds to the reality of the game.

I agree that Doom 3 was lacking in gameplay but one good thing I thought it had was the interactive buttons and switches. Something maybe it should try to incorporate?

World graphics are so predictable nowadays, and so many games use the same drawn-out themes to show off graphics. We've all seen it before. The Jungle, or the city, or the city after a nuclear apocalypse. I could list many games that have this. Marathon should innovate some awesome environments for alien planets and spaceships. Like something so crazy and weird that my head would explode. Marathon was a great game when it came out because it was original and dark. Let's face it, if we found alien life, what are the chances it would look anything like earth? (I grant that Lh'owon looks like a desert, but at least it's not a jungle or has grass like alien planets in Halo.)

I also like that Infinity was released with tools to make scenarios, they should do that again.
MajorDick

Post Feb 6th '13, 21:00

VikingBoyBilly wrote:I hope they keep the low percentage of their work force working on it. Any higher than 5% and it runs the risk of being ruined by the big budget modern gaming disease and turn into another Doom 3.

Then again, looking back at doom 3 compared to todays MMS games, id rather have them "ruin" it into another doom 3 than a Call of modern battlefield.
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CryoS
The Dungeon

Post Feb 26th '13, 19:53

It will be nice to see what Bungie comes up with. Will it be a remake? A prequel? A sequel? A parallel story?

I hope that Bungie finds some way of avoiding a certain sort of dumbness in level design (subyman's Blog: Dumbed Down FPSs). A narrow linear path to follow.

How might one be able to avoid that? A simple solution is an automap, which gets added to from what one sees, and which one can refer to so one won't get lost. That's one of the things I like about the Marathon engine, something that has made possible such complicated levels as M2's "The Hard Stuff Rules", with its 7 floor levels. But which sorts of engines have automaps?

I remember classifying real-time-3D game engines, and I'll repeat my classification here.

  • Indoor engines.
    • 0th generation. Sidescrollers.
    • 1st generation. Orthogonal extruded 2D with one floor level and one ceiling level. Automap usually present. Wolfenstein 3D, Pathways into Darkness, etc.
    • 2nd generation. General extruded 2D with multiple floor and ceiling levels. Automap usually present. Doom, Marathon, Dark Forces, Duke Nukem 3D, etc.
    • 3rd generation. General 3D geometry. Automap usually absent. Quake, Unreal, Half-Life, ...
  • Outdoor engines.
    • 0th generation. Constant surface level.
    • 1st generation. Variable surface level. Myth.
  • Hybrid engines. Combinations of indoor and outdoor engines. Halo?

I'm concerned that Bungie's new Marathon game won't have an automap. That would make it hard to navigate the more complicated geometries that one might create.

But a problem with automaps is how to create them. Outdoor engines and the older indoor engines don't have that problem, because one can construct the automap from the world-geometry data without much trouble. But it's 3rd-generation indoor engines where the trouble is. How might one create a simplified version? Can one tap into visibility calculations for info on what was seen?

There are other features that one might miss. I'm reminded of the remake of Wolfenstein 3D with the Quake 3 engine. I missed the dogs that were in the original. Especially since the Tomb Raider series has had lots of four-legged, six-legged, and eight-legged characters over the years, though they are either small or flying or mostly in horizontal-floor areas.
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lpetrich

Post Feb 27th '13, 07:52

I like the auto-map. It was elegant, and innovative for its time. At the same time I think you can have a map that provides the same benefit to the player, namely to show them the map only as far as they've explored so far, in other ways than going polygon by polygon. You can pre-render a complete map, and cover it with a layer of black. Then as the player moves it's like he's dragging an eraser around with him that exposes the underlying map out to a certain radius. You see this a lot in strategy games, but it gives a similar effect as Marathon's auto-map. Alternatively, many engines still use cell-and-portal systems, so I think you're right that the game could use the existing visibility calculations to show rooms on the map on a cell by cell basis.

Speaking of elegance... I was thinking the other day about this, and one thing I miss from 2nd generation indoor engines and earlier is that the collision geometry is the visible geometry, period. Now one generally overlays a whole separate, simplified version of the map, made of invisible walls, to define collision for players, non-player characters, and/or projectiles. I think the article you linked to may be limiting itself to too narrow a range of games to make its point. But I do agree the use of modern shooter engines comes with shortcomings, like invisible walls, which weren't issues in the past.
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Crater Creator

Post Feb 28th '13, 21:05

Metroid Prime's room-based mapping system could work well for a Marathon game. Prime used 3D wireframe maps you could rotate and drag, with simplified room shapes to concentrate on the room-by-room flow. I think that'd be a lot more usable for "The Hard Stuff Rules" than M2's 2D mapping system. Of course, Marathon maps aren't usually divided cleanly into rooms (and many of the best maps have unusual interconnections), but the idea could be applied to sets of polys.

On the geometry issue, not even Marathon is innocent here. The dissonance between sprite-based scenery/monsters and their cylinder-based collision has pulled me out of immersion on more than a few occasions. Who hasn't noticed how difficult it is to shoot a Tick, or found it odd that you can't squeeze past a visually skinny scenery item? On the other hand, gameplay can benefit from different collision data too. I've played many casual sidescrollers where hit detection is exactly based on sprite art, and when you keep dying because your character's anime-cool scarf brushes against a stray spike, you can long for simpler hitboxes. Bullet-hell shooters have even made this a genre convention.
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Hopper

Post Mar 4th '13, 17:54

I'm really excited about a new Marathon game but I'm worried it might be dumbed down into another bland realistic shooter. Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way. But I'm still really excited about this new Marathon and can't wait to hear more about it [MSmile]
Last edited by Durandal Bebop on Mar 4th '13, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Durandal Bebop
Iowa

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