Pfhorrest wrote:Bungie died 16 years 2 months and 6 days ago. Their corpse is old enough to drive in most states.
3371-Alpha wrote:But at least Halo 2 felt like a Bungie game. It had the same complex backstory as the Marathon games. Destiny has nothing.
RyokoTK wrote:I feel like Bungie has completely exterminated all of their Halo good will...
Honestly I don't think there's any reason Bungie should make another Marathon game. I'd like to see another company, like Machine Games (who made the modern Wolfenstein games), take a shot at it. Their take on Wolf was really remarkable and memorable, they made a fantastic character out of BJ Blazkowicz, and it had fundamentally solid gameplay backing it up. Like, they understood what made Wolf 3D good back in 1992, but they also remembered that it wasn't 1992 anymore.
3371-Alpha wrote:RyokoTK wrote:Fallout 3, one of the most highly acclaimed American RPGs of all time, and with a massive community of fans both of the original game and of modding it, and a game good enough to get a spinoff game (New Vegas), was a piece of shit?
That's not fact, that's just bandwagon. Come on, we learn this shit in 6th grade.
"Just because everyone says so doesn't make it so"
If everyone in this community starts to hate me because of that, guess what? Fallout is still a piece of shit.
If I get banned because I offend a rabid fallout admin, fallout is still a piece of shit.
If I get shot in the head by a retarded bethesda fanboy, fallout is still a sack of monkey shit!
I'd rather drink a tub full of lion piss than play a Bethesda Fallout.
philtron wrote:This is probably true. But at the point that another company is making a Marathon remake that takes what worked back then but adapts it for modern sensibilities, then they might as well just make their own IP and just mention Marathon as an inspiration.
Crater Creator wrote:And by 6th grade I had learned that backing up your assertion with supporting evidence is a lot more convincing than simply proclaiming MY OPINION IS VERY STRONG AND YOU WON'T CHANGE IT AND ALSO I KNOW SOME SWEAR WORDS.
RyokoTK wrote:What makes Marathon stand out from the contemporaries is the writing, not the gameplay. Divorce the game from the terminals and you have a fast run-and-gun game, pretty much the exact same stuff that Doom did previously and Duke 3D would follow with. Not that that's a bad thing whatsoever, mind you.
The reason that I suggested Machine Games specifically is because they understand both old-school gameplay as well as good writing. For Quake's 20 year anniversary they released a Quake 1 episode, that runs in the original game and all that, and as it turns out, it's really good! It was made by people that actually liked Quake and understood what made it work. But they can also write the hell out of a game, which is evident in the modern Wolfenstein games. Blazko is this moody, melodramatic psychopath, and his monologues are just delicious to listen to because they're delivered without a hint of irony. And it fits in the world since it's a world where Nazis use dark magic to enslave humanity.
"You put a Nazi on the moon. Fuck you, moon."
As far as writing goes, Bungie is overall pretty good at making characters but they are horrendous at making a plot. Their stories tend to spiral out of control and never get concluded in a satisfactory manner. Their lore is even worse; they try to gesture at backstory and lore but do it in the most sloppy, inconsistent and contradictory ways. So it's not like Bungie-and-only-Bungie can write Durandal.
philtron wrote:The hell it did. It felt nothing like a Bungie game. Halo 2 basically got wrong everything you could possibly get wrong with a Halo sequel: weapon design, level design, enemy design, the architectural style of alien and human locations, physics, vehicles taking collision damage, playing half the game as an alien, levels that make driving a vehicle mandatory, Jackal snipers, and I could go on and on.
And the less said about the garbage story, the better. Halo 2 doesn't have a complex story, it has a convoluted and ridiculous plot. I mean the game starts off months after the end of the first Halo with no explanation of what you're doing or what happened in the intervening time. That right there tells you most of what you need to know about the competency of whoever wrote the story (either Joe Staten or Frankie O'conner, I believe). Then there's the fact that the entire Halo 2 story is just a rehash of the Halo 1 story: Flood get released and you have to destroy the place they got released on to contain them. This story happens twice in Halo 2. Also, Halo 2 ends in the exact same spot that it started at, both geographically and narratively; nothing changed, the situation is basically the same, so the entire plot served no purpose. Okay, I'll stop now. (But if you're, by some slim chance, interested in reading more about my hatred of Halo 2 here's an unfinished blogpost I made about it, focusing mostly on the opening.)RyokoTK wrote:I feel like Bungie has completely exterminated all of their Halo good will...
Honestly I don't think there's any reason Bungie should make another Marathon game. I'd like to see another company, like Machine Games (who made the modern Wolfenstein games), take a shot at it. Their take on Wolf was really remarkable and memorable, they made a fantastic character out of BJ Blazkowicz, and it had fundamentally solid gameplay backing it up. Like, they understood what made Wolf 3D good back in 1992, but they also remembered that it wasn't 1992 anymore.
This is probably true. But at the point that another company is making a Marathon remake that takes what worked back then but adapts it for modern sensibilities, then they might as well just make their own IP and just mention Marathon as an inspiration.
3371-Alpha wrote:Just saying, nothing ever turns out like it should, So be careful what you wish for.
RyokoTK wrote:Unrelated, but could anyone describe how a game, any game, feels like a Bungie game?
RyokoTK wrote:What makes Marathon stand out from the contemporaries is the writing, not the gameplay. Divorce the game from the terminals and you have a fast run-and-gun game, pretty much the exact same stuff that Doom did previously and Duke 3D would follow with. Not that that's a bad thing whatsoever, mind you.
RyokoTK wrote:As far as writing goes, Bungie is overall pretty good at making characters but they are horrendous at making a plot. Their stories tend to spiral out of control and never get concluded in a satisfactory manner. Their lore is even worse; they try to gesture at backstory and lore but do it in the most sloppy, inconsistent and contradictory ways. So it's not like Bungie-and-only-Bungie can write Durandal.
3371-Alpha wrote:My point was, at least gameplay wise, it wasn't that bad.
philtron wrote:And my point was that, gameplay wise, it was that bad. I know I went on a tangent about story, but the gameplay in Halo 2 is shit. There's little things like getting rid of the health bar in favor of just an energy shield.
philtron wrote:There's medium things like the vehicles taking collision damage (this isn't a racing game, players shouldn't be punished for being bad drivers).
philtron wrote:Then there's big things like the redundant weapon design between human and alien weapons; that's a rookie mistake and should not have come from a veteran game studio. Halo 2's game design is a perfect of example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". There were plenty of aspects of Halo's gameplay that worked perfectly well, but for Halo 2 Bungie went ahead and tried to "fix" all those things that didn't need fixing.
philtron wrote:I'd disagree a bit there. Marathon had vertical look, alternate fire on different guns, significantly different gun behaviors, projectiles (and the player) being affected by gravity, and the ability to pick up the dropped weapons of enemies. For me, this makes Marathon a significantly different gameplay experience than its contemporaries.
philtron wrote:Again I have to disagree. I think lore and storytelling is handled very well in Bungie's pre-Halo2 games. The ambiguous style is in keeping with the type of literature I usually enjoy. Of course, I think M:I was an ingenious and well executed story, while I know most people on these forums see it as a swirling pool of garbage.
General Tacticus wrote:Am I the only one who liked destiny a heck of a lot more than halo?
...
Honestly it felt like the first good game of theirs in well over a decade.
3371-Alpha wrote:To be fair, even Marathon does this. Sure it has 3 levels, but it still does it. In fact, it kind of make you wonder, is the energy shield really the only thing protecting you?
3371-Alpha wrote:Although Halo 3 did have more variety, Halo 2 did also have a lot of cool unique weapons on both sides.
3371-Alpha wrote:I guess they made some weapons redundant because they wanted equivalent counterparts on both sides.
Pfhorrest wrote:Marty didn't do the Oni soundtrack, that was Power of Seven, the same people who did the Marathon 2 & Infinity title themes.
3371-Alpha wrote:Pfhorrest wrote:Marty didn't do the Oni soundtrack, that was Power of Seven, the same people who did the Marathon 2 & Infinity title themes.
Actually doing a bit of research into it, turns out we were both wrong. The composer for Oni was Michael Salvatori, a close colleague of Marty.
w00se wrote:Just look up the credits on youtube. "Sound & Music Lead Marty O'Donnell"
As well as an Original Music credit to Marty O'Donnell, Michael Salvatori, and... Power of Seven.
philtron wrote:That kind of reminds me that Marty O'Donnell and Mike Salvatori did a lot of the sound design for one of my favorite games: Riven (the supremely underrated sequel to Myst). I know that's a little off topic, but does anyone really give a shit about what's going on here anymore?
Pfhorrest wrote:Credits on YouTube as in... a YouTube video of someone looking at the credits screen in-game? Or a YouTube video of the music, with those credits written in the description?
Also, since Total Audio (Marty and Michael) was Bungie's complete sound team at the time, they undoubtedly did all of the non-music audio at least, so that doesn't mean that Power of Seven didn't do the soundtrack proper.
3371-Alpha wrote:RyokoTK wrote:Fallout 3, one of the most highly acclaimed American RPGs of all time, and with a massive community of fans both of the original game and of modding it, and a game good enough to get a spinoff game (New Vegas), was a piece of shit?
That's not fact, that's just bandwagon. Come on, we learn this shit in 6th grade.
"Just because everyone says so doesn't make it so"
If everyone in this community starts to hate me because of that, guess what? Fallout is still a piece of shit.
If I get banned because I offend a rabid fallout admin, fallout is still a piece of shit.
If I get shot in the head by a retarded bethesda fanboy, fallout is still a sack of monkey shit!
I'd rather drink a tub full of lion piss than play a Bethesda Fallout.
3371-Alpha wrote:-destiny-
General Tacticus wrote:If you would actually do some research instead riding the "everything new sucks" bandwagon, you would know that most everything you just said there was very inaccurate:
philtron wrote:RyokoTK wrote:What makes Marathon stand out from the contemporaries is the writing, not the gameplay. Divorce the game from the terminals and you have a fast run-and-gun game, pretty much the exact same stuff that Doom did previously and Duke 3D would follow with. Not that that's a bad thing whatsoever, mind you.
I'd disagree a bit there. Marathon had vertical look, alternate fire on different guns, significantly different gun behaviors, projectiles (and the player) being affected by gravity, and the ability to pick up the dropped weapons of enemies. For me, this makes Marathon a significantly different gameplay experience than its contemporaries.
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