A fourth Marathon??

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A fourth Marathon??

Post Jan 17th '15, 20:47

I found this while searching marathon-related content on Deviantart.
I didn't check wether or not this is true, but I'd like to hear what you guys think. I fear that if there were a marathon 4, with a brand new engine and everything, it'd be too different for us to appreciate.
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Marathon 4.png
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Tycho X
Aenna Prime

Post Jan 18th '15, 03:26

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Hopper

Post Jan 18th '15, 08:50

Thanks!
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Tycho X
Aenna Prime

Post Aug 20th '16, 00:16

There's a section in the Activision Bungie contract (https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... ntract.pdf) which talks explicitly about Marathon development.

Admittedly it places some roadblocks, mainly the need for Destiny to make Activision $375 Mil before Bungie can lift a finger to develop a Marathon game but it is interesting that the subject is part of the contract nonetheless.

Here's some snippets from 8.4 (c)
"Until such time as licensor has completed and delivered to Activision Comet #3, lincensor shall not engage in any development activities on any other interactive entertainment software product in the action/shooter genre...The Parties agree that MARATHON shall be specifically excluded from the restrictions of this section"

Of course the MARATHON exemption is conditional. Basically it boils down to Activision having first rights on any game and Destiny grossing at least $375 Mil for Activision.

Perhaps this is just a case of Bungie protecting a product name and doesn't really imply any future development. Instead it merely provides some options if Destiny delivers. But it does raise an interesting question of what any future Marathon game would look like given the radical evolution in tech since the days of Quadras and M1. What would Bungie do?
The dead walk again; we cannot wait
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blakesnake

Post Aug 20th '16, 00:52

blakesnake wrote:But it does raise an interesting question of what any future Marathon game would look like given the radical evolution in tech since the days of Quadras and M1. What would Bungie do?


Not related to gameplay or presentation, but I'd like it if Bungie went back to their unused plans and concepts for both Marathon and pre-Microsoft Halo* and implemented them in some manner. And/or let us go visit Leela and see exactly what she got up to after taking the Vylae worlds.


(* yeah, I know that the two series aren't connected, but I've heard that they were meant to be at an early stage of Halo: CE's development, and beta stuff fascinates me in general)
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General-RADIX

Post Aug 20th '16, 02:08

I like the idea of a revealing backstory. Maybe how the Marine AKA Mjolnir Recon number 54 got to be whatever it is. Unfortunately this plot line would deal out most if not all of the Pfhor but I'm sure a bit of creativity could see them crossing an earlier timeline in an oblique way, thus sowing the seeds for M1 etc.
The dead walk again; we cannot wait
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blakesnake

Post Aug 20th '16, 02:12

To be honest I'm not holding my breath. I've been burned before when devs have promised "we'll revisit XXX franchise once our next game sells XXX copies. Promise".

Additionally a lot of the time when a company returns to a franchise 20 years later it tends not to turn out well
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DeadYorick
Canada

Post Aug 21st '16, 01:22

I want to see them go back to Project Phoenix.
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philtron

Post Aug 22nd '16, 17:19

DeadYorick wrote:To be honest I'm not holding my breath. I've been burned before when devs have promised "we'll revisit XXX franchise once our next game sells XXX copies. Promise".

Additionally a lot of the time when a company returns to a franchise 20 years later it tends not to turn out well

Duke Nukem Forever anyone?
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Aug 22nd '16, 19:11

DeadYorick wrote:To be honest I'm not holding my breath.

And I can't blame you, especially considering how crappy Destiny was. Although most of you think of me as the guy who wont let go of the last century, I do actually own a PS3. It's how I was able to play modern favorites like BioShock & Half-Life, and hate modern mediocrity like CoD.
As it just so happens one of the games I got for it was Destiny, big mistake. Wish I could take It back but GameStop said they could only give me $5. I could go on & on about everything wrong with it, but that will take up an entire page on this thread.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 25th '16, 16:24

Reboots of old FPS aren't always bad. On the one hand, Duke Nukem Forever and Rise of the Triad were terrible. On the other hand, Shadow Warrior was good and DOOM is honestly probably the best FPS released this decade. Overload is a Descent-clone made by the original team that was successfully Kickstarted and it looks really good too (the actual Descent sequel that got Kickstarted, Descent Underground, is bad).

And with the success of slower, environment focused games like Bioshock, there could be an audience for a reboot of Marathon, so long as they spend enough effort on moody environments and bizarre character writing. However, there's a remake of System Shock that got Kickstarted and a reboot of Prey that looks like it's Bioshock in space, and they both look aggressively mediocre, so I feel like if they end up being bad the writing is going to be on the wall for Marathon.

Plus, nobody played Marathon and no one cares about it so don't hold your breath lmao. They're only entertaining the idea because DOOM was so successful.

eta: You can't call Half-Life 2 a modern favorite 3371-Alpha, because it was released in 2004. Literally a game from a different era of FPS. It's halfway between Wolfenstein 3D and today.

You're right that Destiny is extremely bad though.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 25th '16, 22:56

Maybe nobody cares about Marathon, but being the spiritual predecessor to Halo might be enough to drive interest if a reboot was announced, plus there's all the game critics who still praise the Marathon series to this day.

I think Ryoko's point about BioShock is a pretty good one. In addition there's games like Wolfenstein the New Order which I've heard is a pretty successful FPS in terms of storytelling and design. Plus some of the appeal of Dark Souls could apply to a Marathon remake, as well (in terms of tone/mood and in-between-the-lines storytelling).

Point is, I think there could definitely be a strong new audience for Marathon Remade, just depends on how they handle it and how they market it.

As for Destiny, was it really that bad. I only played about five hours of it, but it seemed really smooth and polished and the enemy deaths are some of the most rewarding I've seen in games. Admittedly, there's a lot about their business model that I don't like, but the gameplay itself seemed pretty solid.
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philtron

Post Aug 25th '16, 23:49

philtron wrote:As for Destiny, was it really that bad. I only played about five hours of it, but it seemed really smooth and polished and the enemy deaths are some of the most rewarding I've seen in games. Admittedly, there's a lot about their business model that I don't like, but the gameplay itself seemed pretty solid.

Destiny's mechanics and general playability aren't bad, it's some other stupid choices Bungie & their bitch Activision made. I've considered making a thread about all the issues of Destiny, but I haven't gotten around to it (when I said it'd take up a whole page, I wasn't joking).
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 25th '16, 23:54

Yes, but why would you post that thread here of all places?
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philtron

Post Aug 26th '16, 00:00

It's complicated. With all the stupid mistakes they're making, I'm starting to worry Bungie it dying. I wanted to inform this community that the company that made our beloved Marathon is not well.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 26th '16, 02:28

I think this community is already aware of what it's already aware of. There's no real need to "inform" people about it. I mean, I don't think anyone is surprised that a company of 500+ employees isn't producing the same type of product with the same ethos as a 12 employee company.

And on that note... You're only STARTING to worry that Bungie is dying? By Halo 2 I already knew that Chicago Bungie was dead. Halo's success killed it. That was over a decade ago.
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philtron

Post Aug 26th '16, 02:28

3371-Alpha wrote:I'm starting to worry Bungie it dying

Bungie died 16 years 2 months and 6 days ago. Their corpse is old enough to drive in most states.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 26th '16, 02:37

But at least Halo 2 felt like a Bungie game. It had the same complex backstory as the Marathon games. Destiny has nothing.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 26th '16, 03:55

3371-Alpha wrote:But at least Halo 2 felt like a Bungie game. It had the same complex backstory as the Marathon games. Destiny has nothing.


Question: Are you saying this before or after checking the Grimoire?
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General-RADIX

Post Aug 26th '16, 04:10

Marathon's gameplay formula doesn't work in the modern era, that is: A meandering terminal laced first person shooter with "run around not knowing what the hell to do" objectives.

Marathon is boring, so I figure that in order for it to stand up on its own today it would need to just be weird as fuck, basic shooting with a premise and environment that compels me to keep playing to find out more.

Marathon scenarios can get away with using the old mechanics but I really don't think a modern game could, and don't compare a new Marathon IP to the recent DOOM because if it tries to beat DOOM it will fail miserably.
Shocktart

Post Aug 26th '16, 04:18

General-RADIX wrote:Question: Are you saying this before or after checking the Grimoire?

#1, I should NOT have to go online to unravel a game's story.
#2, Though Destiny had an excellent concept at first, they just kept sawing off pieces until it became shit. Most people blame Activision for this, I really don't know.
Shocktart wrote:Marathon's gameplay formula doesn't work in the modern era, that is: A meandering terminal laced first person shooter with "run around not knowing what the hell to do" objectives.

Marathon is boring, so I figure that in order for it to stand up on its own today it would need to just be weird as fuck, basic shooting with a premise and environment that compels me to keep playing to find out more.

Marathon scenarios can get away with using the old mechanics but I really don't think a modern game could, and don't compare a new Marathon IP to the recent DOOM because if it tries to beat DOOM it will fail miserably.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly, but sounds like you hate Marathon.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 26th '16, 04:31

philtron wrote:I think Ryoko's point about BioShock is a pretty good one. In addition there's games like Wolfenstein the New Order which I've heard is a pretty successful FPS in terms of storytelling and design. Plus some of the appeal of Dark Souls could apply to a Marathon remake, as well (in terms of tone/mood and in-between-the-lines storytelling).


The New Order and The Old Blood are fantastic! I had forgotten about them until after my previous post but they are really solid and fun. The presentation is wonderfully pulpy and pretty much takes a dimestore trash storyline about the Nazis unlocking a secret magic source of power to its logical conclusion. The gameplay doesn't really do anything new for the genre but it had a pretty decent stealth system, while also having the courtesy of letting the player completely opt out of it and win the game with pure run-and-gun if you want to instead.

Dark Souls' appeal isn't directly the tone and method of storytelling, it's the high difficulty and the community that it very successfully built around trying to unpack the incredibly dense and obscure gameplay; trying to unpack the dense story came afterward and I pretty much guarantee that if the gameplay wasn't completely on point with Dark Souls, no one would give even a fraction of a crap about the story. And I really, really hope Bungie doesn't try to ape From Software in this regard because they are not as good at level design or gameplay design or difficulty tuning; they never, ever have been.

I feel like Bungie has completely exterminated all of their Halo good will. They don't develop Halo anymore, 343 Industries does, and since then the games have been awful. Meanwhile Bungie has made Destiny, which is a really divisive game as far as MMOs and probably managed to screw up almost everything Borderlands did right, which already wasn't much.

Honestly I don't think there's any reason Bungie should make another Marathon game. I'd like to see another company, like Machine Games (who made the modern Wolfenstein games), take a shot at it. Their take on Wolf was really remarkable and memorable, they made a fantastic character out of BJ Blazkowicz, and it had fundamentally solid gameplay backing it up. Like, they understood what made Wolf 3D good back in 1992, but they also remembered that it wasn't 1992 anymore.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 26th '16, 04:59

RyokoTK wrote:Honestly I don't think there's any reason Bungie should make another Marathon game. I'd like to see another company, like Machine Games (who made the modern Wolfenstein games), take a shot at it. Their take on Wolf was really remarkable and memorable, they made a fantastic character out of BJ Blazkowicz, and it had fundamentally solid gameplay backing it up. Like, they understood what made Wolf 3D good back in 1992, but they also remembered that it wasn't 1992 anymore.

I don't think that's a good idea. Fallout 3 was made by a company other than the original developers (Bethesda) and it turned out to be a total piece of shit. However if you manage to get the original ~16 employes (the other 100 can go fuck them selves for all I care) to make it & (this part is imperative) DON'T HIRE A DUCHE BAG PUBLISHER, then it may stand a chance.
Also (and I know some of you may roll your eyes at me when you here this) being a Mac game partly made it special. It wasn't so much the Mac part that made it special, just that it was exclusively available to a minority platform. Just as Halo makes XBox users feel special, Marathon did the same for Mac users. Although Mac exclusivity's probably not a good idea in this day & age (Tim Cook still hasn't realized the potential lucrativity of making a gaming Mac), something about that lack of exclusiveness wont feel the same.
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 26th '16, 05:01

Fallout 3, one of the most highly acclaimed American RPGs of all time, and with a massive community of fans both of the original game and of modding it, and a game good enough to get a spinoff game (New Vegas), was a piece of shit?

There's a real good reason that people associate the name of the franchise with the first-person open world Bethesda games, rather than the pseudo-turn based isometric RPGs of yore.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 26th '16, 05:12

RyokoTK wrote:Fallout 3, one of the most highly acclaimed American RPGs of all time, and with a massive community of fans both of the original game and of modding it, and a game good enough to get a spinoff game (New Vegas), was a piece of shit?

That's not fact, that's just bandwagon. Come on, we learn this shit in 6th grade.
"Just because everyone says so doesn't make it so"
If everyone in this community starts to hate me because of that, guess what? Fallout is still a piece of shit.
If I get banned because I offend a rabid fallout admin, fallout is still a piece of shit.
If I get shot in the head by a retarded bethesda fanboy, fallout is still a sack of monkey shit!
I'd rather drink a tub full of lion piss than play a Bethesda Fallout.
Last edited by 3371-Alpha on Aug 26th '16, 05:15, edited 1 time in total.
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3371-Alpha
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