A fourth Marathon??

[Johnman]

So, just to get this thread back on track again. Is Marathon 4 coming or not?
I think it's safe to say so many years after the whole contract thing, that if the game was ever being made, it got swallowed up by development hell.

Besides, Destiny 2 is coming. Got to love that jingoist propaganda that is the trailer. I might get it on PC if the reviews are good. I don't have a console, but I followed the whole thing from a safe distance and I must say I'm not very excited about it.

By the way RyokoTK I enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Pretty spot on. I didn't realize there was a prequel to The New Order! I loved that game.

[thedoctor45]

I suppose Marathon as a franchise is just not known enough amongst todays gaming community to make it worth resurrecting, but even if it were, Bungie would have to "popularize" it to appeal to the mainstream which basically means dumbing down gameplay/story and boosting graphics and violence. So I guess it's probably for the best that Marathon 4 will never see the light of day. Let it rest in peace and not fret about what could have been because let's be frank, we oldschool Bungie fans would probably not have been satisfied with the outcome anyway...

[General-RADIX]

If anyone at Bungie shares those concerns, they could always pull a genre switch and have the hypothetical fourth installment be, say, a point-n-click/visual novel in the vein of The X-Files Game (the one on PC, not the PS2). Or a series of regular novels. Maximum story density AND you don't have to worry about appealing to the crowd that won't touch any FPS older than five years.

(OK, so maybe that option only really appeals to me. :U )

[alborada]

I'm yet to read a convincing argument as to how a next-gen Marathon sequel would work while being faithful to the original and not stepping on Halo's feet. I imagine that terminal text would be a bit much to bear for modern audiences so the obvious solution would be an AI that talks to you as you play- i.e. cortana- plus the whole AI going rampant/rogue was also done (pretty badly) in the later Halo games.. so getting some distance from that series would be pretty tricky.
What made Marathon great for me was the atmosphere, the sense of isolation and the relatively still, quiet environments. Something to do with it being on Mac, with such a small community around it and most people having never heard of it added to that somewhat. I loved being in that ship, getting lost in those corridors, and I can't even say why exactly. The closest equivalent I can think of is Alien, with the slow pans and tracking shots of the interiors, and the sense of loneliness within. It's probably a personal thing, having been a fan of both as a lonely emotional 14 year old, somehow finding solace in those worlds- so the idea of a modern version of Marathon with (inevitably) a hundred things going on at once and 5000 player co-op play makes me sad..

[philtron]

Terminal text would have to be replaced with audio logs for modern audiences. But, does anyone even do audio logs anymore? I feel like they've already run their course; I think people are already tired of audio logs.

[PerseusSpartacus]

A fourth Marathon game would probably need to step away from the normal FPS genre and start to venture into the more horror-suspense category, not in the sense of having more gore, but in the sense of relying on a fusion of gameplay and aesthetic to provide a dark, suspenseful atmosphere.

[JED07]

In order for Bungie to justify allocating resources to producing M4, they would have to make it with the larger market of casuals in mind.

In other words it's going to have to suck in order to make money.

Best case scenario we might get an fps loosely based off of Marathon that has much better combat. This might actually happen because the combat in Marathon is like punching a cow in the ass for 30 minutes and should easily be surpassed especially considering what Bungie has learned making Halo.

The truth is Marathon has and always will be an obscure fps that the world at large doesn't know about. Which we should all be thankful for. I doubt this game will see the light of day. Most remakes depend on a large fan base oozing with nostalgia that will be stupid enough to hope that there precious franchise will get the treatment it deserves. Marathon does not have this. So no prospect of money? No remake.

I would rather see something new and original turned into a scifi horror fps with mysterious story telling elements that are never fully explained or revealed. Y'know kinda like Marathon.

When Destiny was announced and I saw the trailer I had high hopes. I never played it but as details started coming out and I realized what kind of game they were making... What a shame.

[PerseusSpartacus]

You may very well be right, sir.

When Destiny was announced and I saw the trailer I had high hopes. I never played it but as details started coming out and I realized what kind of game they were making... What a shame.

And don't even get me started on Mass Effect: Andromeda - I haven't played it, but just watching the first few episodes of Rampancy.net's playthrough of it has told me everything I need to know.

[HelviusRufus]

watching the first few episodes of Rampancy.net's playthrough

I agree with B-star's assessments but I think it is misnamed, it should be Mass Effect: Botany Bay. That would make B-star's assessments be the game's logic.

A fourth Marathon game would probably need to step away from the normal FPS genre

Then it wouldn't be Marathon.
There won't be a Marathon 4 because it doesn't fit to the lowest common denominator. i.e.

the atmosphere, the sense of isolation and the relatively still, quiet environments. ... The closest equivalent I can think of is Alien, with the slow pans and tracking shots of the interiors, and the sense of loneliness within.

e.g. Arrival, Ne Cede Malis, Second to the Last of the Mohicans, style
just doesn't fit the current mode.

In order for Bungie to justify allocating resources to producing M4, they would have to make it with the larger market of casuals in mind.
In other words it's going to have to suck in order to make money.

In my humble opinion, if you search through the Pfhorums and look for the topics about wanting to do a "remake" or an "update" to a newer engine, you will find behind the lofty goals a desire to take a current product, repackage it, and hit the big time and, of course, hopefully, make lots o money.

As opposed to those who actually make Marathon universe, Marathon style games, which takes a lot of effort.
And do it for the Art.
I personally don't think the new episodes need to be 20 or 30 or more levels. Five or six with a story would be plenty: a short story instead of a novel.
A couple o more levels on Philtron's new effort would merge it quite nicely into Marathon thus making it a nice short story. Perhaps even a sort of prequel. Tycho X's would be a good short story too, a single complete event, and could be closed out in another level or two.
Then there are experiments such as Treellama's Marathon: W'rkncacnter.

No one rewrites the Sherlock Holmes canon, but many write stories based on things mentioned or alluded to in it.

And I apologize to those whose scenarios I've enjoyed but not named here.

[CitizenKane]

Any kind of official sequel or reboot would be cool. But my personal gaming fantasy - the game that if I had unlimited money I would buy a game developer (in this case Bungie) to make for me, but which in reality is never going to happen - would be some kind of sandbox/open world first person RPG (a la Fallout or TES) set in the Marathon universe. I've never played or even read anything about it so apologies if I have just described Destiny, but I don't think I have because what I have in mind would be very much set around the same locations with the same races depicted in the Marathon series, as opposed to just being a spiritual successor.

It would be too restrictive to set it on the Marathon itself, but perhaps it could be set in or around the time the events of Marathon 2 are taking place, against the backdrop of an the impending Pfhor invasion. In terms of location I could envisage it taking place in multiple locations - Lh'owon, Tau Ceti, maybe even Earth? Or it could be set in an entirely different time on an entirely different place, but still involving the same races (Pfhor, S'pht, the AI's in some capacity).

For me, the story and universe of the Marathon series applied to the gameplay mechanics of an open-world RPG, with modern graphics, would be a dream combination...

In fact, now that I think of it, I am struggling to think of any sci-fi/space themed open world RPG type games period. Has there been any?

[Johnman]

a point-n-click/visual novel in the vein of The X-Files Game

Sign me up for that.

[HunterOfShadows]

To be honest I'm not holding my breath. I've been burned before when devs have promised "we'll revisit XXX franchise once our next game sells XXX copies. Promise".

Additionally a lot of the time when a company returns to a franchise 20 years later it tends not to turn out well

That's not even what they said dude, the contract isn't a 'if we sell so many we promise to do this' its a 'Activision won't LET US make anything else unless Destiny sells X amount'

I don't think that's a good idea. Fallout 3 was made by a company other than the original developers (Bethesda) and it turned out to be a total piece of shit.

No it wasn't, Fallout 3 was made by Bethesda, don't talk out of your ass without fact checking first(though based on your posts in this thread so far I'm noticing that's a trend with you), and for the record, the original developers of Fallout are NOT Bethesda

I'm*I've yet to read a convincing argument as to how a next-gen Marathon sequel would work while being faithful to the original and not stepping on Halo's feet.

Likely because nobody has even attempted to do so in this thread, but I'll make an argument that trying to be 'faithful' to the original in any way besides story is kind of dumb, people wouldn't be interested in playing a clone of the old marathons because if you want to do that you can just play the old marathon games

So obviously the gameplay would have to change somehow, DOOM 2016 did it while also still managing to give an old school feel, so don't act like it isn't possible

[Flowers]

I'm not sure if I would want a Marathon 4 to be honest. I don't know how many people here have played Destiny, but there were a lot of problems with it. From very anti-consumer practices such as cutting content that was on the disc to be resold as ridiculously overpriced DLC to ignoring the community for up to nine months on balance issues with the PvP, it was just a big mess. And that's completely ignoring things like how the story was basically nonexistent and the awful repetitive nature of the game that relied on grinding to compensate for a lack of content.

I could go on all day but this isn't a Destiny forum. My point is that I don't really trust Bungie at this point in time. Marathon had a proper ending. It would be nice to get more out of the series, even if the gameplay was different, but it would also suck to have them resurrect a beloved series just to taint it with an awful game. That's just my take on the matter though.

[Hathomirr]

I'm not sure if I would want a Marathon 4 to be honest. I don't know how many people here have played Destiny, but there were a lot of problems with it. From very anti-consumer practices such as cutting content that was on the disc to be resold as ridiculously overpriced DLC to ignoring the community for up to nine months on balance issues with the PvP, it was just a big mess. And that's completely ignoring things like how the story was basically nonexistent and the awful repetitive nature of the game that relied on grinding to compensate for a lack of content.

I could go on all day but this isn't a Destiny forum. My point is that I don't really trust Bungie at this point in time. Marathon had a proper ending. It would be nice to get more out of the series, even if the gameplay was different, but it would also suck to have them resurrect a beloved series just to taint it with an awful game. That's just my take on the matter though.

I'm not very familiar with Destiny, but I agree with the overall point here. If not for the gameplay, then for the story. Most of the remakes/remasters I've played have been decent, but most of them were light on story to begin with (like Doom). I highly doubt that modern standards can even come close to faithfully reinventing the complex nature of the originals storyline, let alone surpass it.

There's no denying the nostalgia here, but I'd much prefer that people remember Marathon as we know it now, and not some half-assed remake or sequel. The more I think about it, the less I want it to ever happen.

[HunterOfShadows]

I'm not sure if I would want a Marathon 4 to be honest. I don't know how many people here have played Destiny, but there were a lot of problems with it. From very anti-consumer practices such as cutting content that was on the disc to be resold as ridiculously overpriced DLC to ignoring the community for up to nine months on balance issues with the PvP, it was just a big mess. And that's completely ignoring things like how the story was basically nonexistent and the awful repetitive nature of the game that relied on grinding to compensate for a lack of content.

I could go on all day but this isn't a Destiny forum. My point is that I don't really trust Bungie at this point in time. Marathon had a proper ending. It would be nice to get more out of the series, even if the gameplay was different, but it would also suck to have them resurrect a beloved series just to taint it with an awful game. That's just my take on the matter though.

I'm not very familiar with Destiny, but I agree with the overall point here. If not for the gameplay, then for the story. Most of the remakes/remasters I've played have been decent, but most of them were light on story to begin with (like Doom). I highly doubt that modern standards can even come close to faithfully reinventing the complex nature of the originals storyline, let alone surpass it.

There's no denying the nostalgia here, but I'd much prefer that people remember Marathon as we know it now, and not some half-assed remake or sequel. The more I think about it, the less I want it to ever happen.

I agree, unless someone who was the right team came along and did an absolute bang up job, which is pretty supremely unlikely to happen, I don't really want a sequel.

[ravenshining]

I was dismissive of the idea of a Marathon 4 appealling to a modern audience, until I saw Alien Isolation. That game had Marathon elements all over it, right down to text terminals.

Where are monsters in dreams? Imagine Alien Isolation, but with you as a BOB, S'pht instead of the Aliens and Pfhor instead of Androids.

Still, Bungie would have to get a decent writer on board before I'll trust them anywhere near a new Marathon.

[philtron]

I agree, unless someone who was the right team came along and did an absolute bang up job, which is pretty supremely unlikely to happen, I don't really want a sequel.

We should make the sequel. We could do it in the Doom 2 engine.

[HunterOfShadows]

I agree, unless someone who was the right team came along and did an absolute bang up job, which is pretty supremely unlikely to happen, I don't really want a sequel.

We should make the sequel. We could do it in the Doom 2 engine.

I really don't understand, if you're making a joke you kinda lost me

[Flippant Sol]

It MUST happen, it is an eventuality.
No business person will ask you, "Hey, would it be cheaper to come up with a completely original IP, or should we just reboot this critically acclaimed IP that no one has heard of, and thus, no expectations?" The latter will always be correct. Once Destiny is complete, Marathon is the ONLY game they could make.

If they were to make another Marathon game, it would also have to be remake of the first game, with a Dujourian artstyle on full display. Marathon is the INVENTOR of the smug, sarcastic, anti-hero AI. Cortana? GladOS? Wheatley? Failsafe? Exuberant Witness? All of them are ripoffs of Durandal. You would need like Michael Keaton or something to pull off Durandal correctly. If the game tries to be too experimental, it will flop. It needs to be a good game first and foremost, but it also needs to be a homage, and not a copy of Marathon.

[Flowers]

It MUST happen, it is an eventuality.
No business person will ask you, "Hey, would it be cheaper to come up with a completely original IP, or should we just reboot this critically acclaimed IP that no one has heard of, and thus, no expectations?" The latter will always be correct. Once Destiny is complete, Marathon is the ONLY game they could make.

The problem with this argument is that Bungie was in this situation before when their contract with Microsoft was ending back in 2011. As we now know, they did indeed decide to make a new IP instead of simply reboot Marathon. But reboots and remakes are becoming increasingly more popular these days, so who knows?

[Nathan92]

The thing is, that Marathon detail in the Bungie/Activision contract is unfortunately not a new game/reboot of the series. Though I personally don't have a way of corroborating the guy's story, apparently it was legal-jargon and hurdling to make it seem like more Bungie employees were working on something bigger (for tax reasons/legal reasons or something or another). It was in fact the project of a single or couple of independent contractor/freelancers to port Marathon to steam and/or mobile (seeing as though Doom being ported to steam was met with a lot of success). This info came from one of the contractors directly on some reddit discussion he was involved with. I'll edit this post with the link when I find it again, I'll go look for it in a sec.

EDIT: Here's the discussion link, and it seems to be agreed upon by at least two sources. it's also not even a port, but something even less involved than that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comme ... _marathon/

There is not a new game in the works, at least not currently. I suppose it could happen eventually, but I'm not holding my breath.

TL;DR version:
Good News: Speculation of a reboot can be put to rest for now.
Bad (or good, depending on your POV) News: There is no reboot.

[PerseusSpartacus]

To be honest, I'm totally fine with there never being a reboot or sequel. After seeing the catastrophe of Mass Effect: Andromeda and the overall failure of Halo 4 and Halo 5, my desire to see old IPs revived has been utterly destroyed - I'm just not at all confident that the game industry is in a position to really do justice to such prestigious franchises.

[philtron]

I demand a PUBG style reboot of Minotaur.

[philtron]

Right after making that last post I realized that this would be an actually pretty fun game.

[Flippant Sol]

The only chance we'll ever see a new Marathon game is if Bungie were to give the IP to someone else, and they were to decide to do something with it. Until then, and if then, it is the sole responsibility of the fans to create new experiences and adventures in the Marathon universe. At this projection, I claim that the Marathon fandom will go the way of the dodo by 2024.