Favorite Marathon weapon

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Post Mar 17th '11, 21:44

I love the SMG in Infinity but I thought it was criminally underused in the scenario itself! You only get your hands on it twice in the game IIRC? You pick it up on Hang Brain (the very end of it for that matter) and then lose it again straight away in By Committee. Then you get it again in YTYBT and only get to use it for that level and Aye Mak Sicur (which I was very grateful for don't get me wrong!)

I just found it strange because a new weapon seemed like such an exciting development for the final installment of the trilogy, yet you hardly got to use it in single player. Would've been cool if they made the combat slightly more difficult at times and provided you with the SMG to compensate for it (although far be it from me to criticize Infinity, the game is mostly beyond criticism IMO, this would basically be my only minor quibble!).
Last edited by CitizenKane on Mar 17th '11, 22:18, edited 1 time in total.
CitizenKane
Dublin, Ireland

Post Mar 17th '11, 23:13

Off the top of my head, there's a not-so-secret flechette on Poor Yorick. Not so secret, because it's seen in one of the demo films the game played while idle (does that feature not work anymore?). I'm pretty sure there's at least one other instance beyond that, because I remember it being scarce, but not that scarce. I do tend to hoard the good weapons for when I really need them, i.e. for fighting underwater in the case of the flechette.
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Crater Creator

Post Mar 17th '11, 23:47

There is an SMG in Acme Station, it's not a secret at all. I think there's one in in Post Naval Trauma, I don't remember if it's a secret.

But, you should have one from Poor Yorick anyway, it's in the demo!
Last edited by treellama on Mar 17th '11, 23:54, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 18th '11, 11:07

I had absolutely no idea you could get the SMG in Poor Yorick... oh dear...

EDIT: or Acme Station for that matter! With Acme Station I always tend to just fly through the level in a blind panic and hope for the best before my oxygen runs out... it's not a level very conducive to exploring so I suppose it's understandable that I missed the SMG. But knowing me it is probably in a glaringly obvious place.
Last edited by CitizenKane on Mar 18th '11, 11:45, edited 1 time in total.
CitizenKane
Dublin, Ireland

Post Mar 21st '11, 17:58

AttilaGeek wrote:Another Answer: in the standard physics model for infinity, the flamethrower does 15 damage per burst at a rate of 2 ticks per burst times 30 ticks per second= 225 damage per second. That's approximately a rocket launcher to the face every second.

225 damage per second a bit high. If my understanding is correct, a tick is roughly equivalent to one second. And looking at Physics Editor One J, a flamethrower burst does a minimum of 8 damage with a random damage of 4 (does that mean 4 to 12, or 6 to 10?). If your rate of 2 ticks per burst is correct (this doesn't sound right), then the flamethrower does something closer to 4 damage per second, which is much closer to a rifle bullet to the face every two seconds. But that doesn't sound right either....
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Mar 21st '11, 19:16

One tick is 1/30 of a second. Attila's calculations sound about right to me. Guys with 150 (full red) health die in a fraction of a second when faced with napalm.
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Mar 21st '11, 19:51

I'm not exactly a physics model expert, but let's try to correct some of the misconceptions here:

Ares Ex Machina wrote:If my understanding is correct, a tick is roughly equivalent to one second.

A tick in Marathon or Aleph One is 1/30 of a second. Physics Editor One J mentions this, under Weapon > Definitions > Timing. It's also mentioned in the Lua guide and offhand in the MML guide.

edit: irons beat me, but I've got links so there

a flamethrower burst does a minimum of 8 damage with a random damage of 4 (does that mean 4 to 12, or 6 to 10?).
As suggested by the name, 8 is indeed the minimum dealt, and then the engine adds between 0 and (random - 1) points, so that means 8 to 11. Incidentally, if I'm reading the code correctly, then setting random to 1 is totally useless.

If your rate of 2 ticks per burst is correct (this doesn't sound right)

An experiment is in order here. Notice that a flamethrower holds 210 bursts according to the physics model, and it takes 7 seconds to discharge a full tank of napalm. So that means it must be discharging about 30 bursts a second, or 1 tick per burst.

The flamethrower's firing sequence is 17, which in the Shapes file has a transfer mode period of 1 tick. The burst count is 0, which means 1 flamethrower burst is fired each sequence period.

then the flamethrower does something closer to 4 damage per second

That would take 10 seconds (one-and-a-half tanks) just to kill a green fighter! 30 bursts per second, times 8-11 damage points per burst, equals 240 to 330 damage per second.

A single rocket is 250-299 damage, or 500 to almost 600 damage per second.

The SMG deals 9-14 damage per bullet (same damage as AR bullets), with 2 bullets every 2 ticks (as opposed to AR's 1 bullet every 2 ticks). A full SMG clip deals 288 to 448 damage in a little over a second.

The shotgun fires a burst of 10 pellets, each doing 20-23 damage, so that's 200 to 230 damage per blast, or a bit under 400 to 460 per second with dual-wielding.
Last edited by Hopper on Mar 21st '11, 20:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Hopper

Post Mar 22nd '11, 02:36

Hopper wrote:As suggested by the name, 8 is indeed the minimum dealt, and then the engine adds between 0 and (random - 1) points, so that means 8 to 11.


i thought it was 8 plus a random of 1 to 4 to make 9 to 12 damage?
AttilaGeek

Post Mar 22nd '11, 04:42

[EDIT: in a deleted post, Crater Creator pointed to Mark Levin's Anvil reference]

Treellama wrote:That guide was written before the source code was released.

From here:
short total_damage= damage->base + (damage->random ? global_random()%damage->random : 0);
Last edited by Hopper on Mar 23rd '11, 03:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Hopper

Post Mar 22nd '11, 17:36

irons:
You're right! I tried to get a Bob's vitality as close to the player's as I could (150 total, not sure if that's right) and timed a flamethrower kill. To my surprise it was less than a second (I clocked it at 0.65 seconds, by hand). Not the best test, but it's the best I could do on my own.

Hopper:
Thank you for the most thorough explanation a noob could ask for! I'm pretty sure I fall into that category for this kind of stuff.

Crater Creator:
Good link! But where'd it go?...

AttilaGeek:
Sorry, dude!

Self:
Back to school, sucka!
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Ares Ex Machina

Post Mar 23rd '11, 02:15

I deleted my post after I misread hopper's post in response to mine. I thought his quote went back to earlier in *this* thread, meaning that the link to http://webwonks.org/Marathon/Anvil/Levin/index.html had already been posted and discussed right here, and so it was redundant to post it again. Now I'm posting it to reduce confusion, and in recognition that it is a good resource so long as you know its limitations.
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Crater Creator

Post Mar 23rd '11, 03:23

Sorry for being overly concise, I didn't mean to come off as harsh. You are correct, it's very helpful. It would be awesome if someone wanted to work on updating it, or at least transferring it to a wiki.
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Hopper

Post Apr 5th '11, 18:08

Speaking as someone who is mostly a solo player and has no taste for multiplayer games (as some of you who might remember me from online games back in the day probably would have guessed [MLaugh] ), I'm quite keen on the fusion pistol. It's a very versatile weapon. Its accuracy and range is strong, it's fast and powerful enough to work for general combat situations, it works against all detonable enemies (particularly the hunters), it can activate switches, and it works in vaccuum. Sure, it doesn't work in water, but most alien weapons don't work in water either and I don't mind using my fists in those situations. Plus, it works because it's in all 3 of the Marathon games.

Also, speaking as someone who's played Marathon for several years, I understand the appeal and novelty of using your fists and all, but I could never stand to bother "vidding". Punching shit gets real old real fast, because it's incredibly slow and tedious (even when run-punching). No matter how impressive it is that someone can box their way through an entire scenario, I'll still be bored to sleep if I try to watch a video of it. Overrated weapon if ya ask me.
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Da Pissa

Post May 2nd '11, 13:49

Сhoose the favourite weapon depending on a situation. But if to choose a three of leaders that it
- Zeus Class Fusion Pistol
- Assault Rifle/Grenade Launcher
- KKV-7 10mm SMG Flechette
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Akuul

Post Jun 25th '11, 22:50

fusion pistol, rocket launcher, and dual shotguns
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Terminater
Look behind you

Post Jul 9th '11, 22:01

marathon needs a sniper! perhaps changing the SMG to a oneshot zero error gun with the juggernaut bang sound. anyway, my favorite gun is the SPNKR, or the SPANKER. dont need to aim as well as other guns, and only one shot one kill.
If I had a rocket launcher, I'd make myself pay.
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unclenate
AZ, USA, Earth

Post Jul 9th '11, 22:57

Etan wrote:marathon needs a sniper! perhaps changing the SMG to a oneshot zero error gun with the juggernaut bang sound.

The unfinished scenario Return to Marathon had a Sniper Rifle.

The Energy Katar from Marathon Phoenix is one of my favorites.
Last edited by President People on Jul 9th '11, 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
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President People

Post Jul 9th '11, 23:44

Fist! [MLaugh]
Marathon Player Since 1995.

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Sharkie Lino
Long Island, New York

Post Jul 10th '11, 10:33

I love the sound of the grenades from the Eternal assault rifle
CitizenKane
Dublin, Ireland

Post Jul 10th '11, 21:05

President People wrote:The unfinished scenario Return to Marathon had a Sniper Rifle.

The Energy Katar from Marathon Phoenix is one of my favorites.


Better yet, Evil had a railgun that was much more effective and cool.
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Alric

Post Jun 14th '13, 09:36

Yesterday I went through "If I had a rocket launcher, I'd make somebody pay", and God it was such a relief to find that rocket launcher.

So definitely I think the rocket launcher is my favorite weapon, and that match pretty much the memories I have from my childhood, when I used to play level 54 in Infinity alone for hours :)
Ne Cede Malis.
Somnus Gravis

Post Jun 26th '14, 00:33

I'm a big fan of the Fusion rifle in Rubicon, and the scatter gun in Marathon 1/Eternal. I like weapons that have spread fire which is fairly restrained.
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Xap

Post Jun 30th '14, 00:21

Gotta say the original Marathon pistol.

A revolver that loads through a detatchable box magazine. I thought it was the weirdest thing and was simply a case of Bungie making a mistake...then I discovered the Landstad 1900...

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Interesting shit IMO. Bungie took cues from obscure designs from the turn of the century.
keen

Post Jun 30th '14, 17:24

That Landstad is pretty interesting. I never noticed the way that the Marathon pistol loads, but then again I don't know much about firearms.

A new favorite weapon of mine has popped up after some replaying of Marathon: Phoenix. The IMPs - they're awesome little weapons that pack a punch and can stun-lock enemies. Really fun to mow down a bunch of fighters in a small corridor with them :)
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Xap

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