RyokoTK wrote:Marathon 1 actually does have very bad level design... Marathon is really not a very good game
doctorbenjiphd wrote:I completely agree with Ryoko--Marathon, particularly the first one, is fucking stupid. The level design is god-awful. The animations and artwork is pretty bad. The story, while getting props for actually *existing*, its pretentious and self-important.
philtron wrote:RyokoTK wrote:Marathon 1 actually does have very bad level design... Marathon is really not a very good game
Okay, then, why did you ever come here? Why did you even spend years making a Marathon mod?
kralex wrote:RyokoTK wrote:exists, there isn't much to suggest over Doom, Duke, Quake, Dark Forces, and so forth.
I thought Duke 3D was a 'piece of crap'
philtron wrote:Same question. Why are you even here? It can't be just nostalgia because there's probably dozens of other nostalgic games you've played that aren't "fucking stupid" and "god-awful".
I'm not being antagonistic here. It's just that it doesn't make sense for someone to have such strong, negative feelings about a game while at the same time participating in a nearly dead community devoted to that very game.
kralex wrote:I really think everyone is exaggerating the disparity in quality between Marathon and other comparable games of the time. Games were still going through a lot of growing pains back then and it showed in all of them.
If you took all the levels in the Doom series and compared them to all the levels in the Marathon series then I think the gap in general quality wouldn't be that great. At least Marathon's levels got better over time, while Doom's seemed to devolve. I'm specifically thinking of E4M1: The Hell Beneath and the map in Doom 2 called "The Suburbs". Man, those were really terrible levels from pretty much any angle you consider. "The Suburbs" was so terrible that it's the only map in Doom 2 that I actually remember.
And maybe this is blasphemy, but I'd say that Marathon's weapon design is much better than Doom's.
Duke Nukem 3D, also had some really bad level design. Like, here's a rectangular room with bad guys in it. Here's a couple more. Done. I think what really drew people into Duke were the things like security cameras, shrink rays, freeze rays, jetpacks, and scripted "destructible" environments, all those little side mechanics that gave the game character.
And the first Quake was just all over the place because nobody at id could agree on what game they were making. There's some really terrible, not fun levels in Quake.
RyokoTK wrote:you get the AR right at the start of all three games and it's strong, versatile, and can stun-lock every single enemy in the trilogy except the Juggernaut.
RyokoTK wrote:You can't brush off all the cool shit that made Duke neat and unique in an endless sea of bland Doom clones like that, dude, c'mon.
RyokoTK wrote:Marathon's weapon design...
RyokoTK wrote:Uh, E4M1 is great. It's compact, it's tough as nails, and it flows smoothly enough. It's a great way to kick off a very hard Doom episode.
RyokoTK wrote:Infinity has shit like enemy Vacbobs shooting at you from corridors too narrow to dodge in, any kind of combat in liquids, or generally poor enemy placement that doesn't accentuate their strengths or characteristics well.
RyokoTK wrote:One might think that M1 and Infinity are designed to be less focused on combat than its contemporaries, and more on exploration... Dark Souls...
philtron wrote:So no one responded to my long post. That means I'm the King of Game Design, right?
HelviusRufus wrote:Lack of a convenient save terminals increases the tension. How confident am I that I'll make it through the next room?.......The same with health terminals.
HelviusRufus wrote:When there isn't one at the beginning and you don't know when you'll be able to save, the phrase discretion is the better part of valor takes on real meaning... Though the farther you get from that save terminal, the less reckless you're likely to be.
philtron wrote:so the less reckless you become the slower you play
philtron wrote:You might run back to a save terminal after each battle instead of just going forward.
philtron wrote:backtracking to try and find some save terminal might draw attention to the maze like nature of the level design; going forward you just go to wherever looks new, but going backwards you have to go through all these similar corridors and try and remember which one leads to where you want to go.
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