What is the DS_STORE

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Re: What is the DS_STORE

Post Aug 27th '16, 17:03

Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else"


???

Speak for yourself.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 27th '16, 17:13

RyokoTK wrote:
Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else"


???

Speak for yourself.


You'd have to be a fool to think this community needs anything more than Alpha One 2.0.0:
priorities.png
priorities.png (18.3 KiB) Viewed 1594 times


At least I have my priorities in order.
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Windbreaker
South Park, CO

Post Aug 27th '16, 19:55

3371-Alpha wrote:Instead of netmaps, have you ever considered making netscripts for additional game modes?

I'm glad you brought this up. I think this whole argument basically boils down to, "Everyone in the community should strive to be more like W'rkncacnter."
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Wrkncacnter

Post Aug 27th '16, 20:13

3371-Alpha wrote:I've tried Marathon's multiplayer before and it's fun, but in my opinion many newer games do do it better than Marathon.


That can literally be said about every aspect of Marathon, including the single player campaign. And, no! Do not try to respond to that with an example of something in Marathon that does it better than a new game. That's not the point of this.

The point here is this statement I've quoted is an example of how you just say things without thinking. You don't stop and take even two seconds to think whether your statements make sense, whether they're true, or whether you have any idea of what you're talking about. You just run your mouth off and end up making everyone angry.

The veterans here can be real assholes, but right now, you have earned every bit of their ire. Every one of their criticisms of you is valid. It's like, you got caught making stuff up even though you understood 0% of the topic and now you're just doubling down on being arrogant and ignorant at the same time.

My advice to you. Take a break from the Pfhorums. Take a couple months away and come back with fresh eyes. I mean, there's no reason for you to be here right now; you're not contributing anything and you just complain that no one else is contributing anything either, so what's the point? (And, no! Do not respond to that. It's not an actual question, it's rhetorical.)
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philtron

Post Aug 27th '16, 20:49

3371-Alpha wrote:but in my opinion many newer games do do it better than Marathon.


Irrelevant.
The newer games are not Marathon.
The people are playing and want to play Marathon.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 27th '16, 20:58

Actually the net maps can be a campaign. There are generally a series of levels so set your victory conditions i.e. number of rounds or duration at a specific difficulty, call yourself Earl Dumarest and make up a story as you do each level. If you’re not good at making up stories, you can always use this idea which is similar and makes a campaign of the various levels; sort of a roadshow gladiator. When you have reached the victory conditions for all the levels in the pack, you’re home or retired or you can go on the road again…. By the way, the initial and only level of the cited map, beating the F’lickta with fists only at TC, is really quite challenging. As with may things, you can only get out of a game what you put into it.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 28th '16, 02:06

Windbreaker wrote:Considering only three out of ten uploads on Simplici7y's first page were mutliplayer maps, yeah, I can safely say this community does do other things. And I didn't even have to Google that.

There are some pages of Simplici7y that are completely full of netmaps. If I'm not mistaken, the first page is for new stuff. There hasn't been much development on anything lately so you're not going to find them there.
Windbreaker wrote:More importantly, why are mappers being held responsible for the community as a whole?

Oh, you thought I was singling you out. I was actually referring to anybody & everybody. "Why don't you help out Hopper?"
Windbreaker wrote:This isn't some business where people have to pick up the slack.

I have OCD & I'm a perfectionist, so sometimes I tend to get stuck in this idealism.
Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else".

I respect your opinion, as I too believe that if you do something you love you'll never work a day in your life. Sorry, I never realized you were so fond of your netmaps. But we all have our own things that make us happy (ironically i do actually enjoy maximizing things into something better, I like the challenge).
Windbreaker wrote:Jesus, why is that so hard to understand?

The only thing I don't understand now is what the hell happened to everyone? Crater Creator & Philltron told me about the time when this community was much more active. Even without them telling me, it's also evident by all the abandoned projects on Simplici7y (ie. tim4i). This is also why I don't really find the Marathon multiplayer to be that fun, I've never played with more than 6 people. That's hardly a party. Why is it that I joined this community after it died?! Just my luck.
Windbreaker wrote:Would you rather people not submit their content if it doesn't suit your own agenda? Because this community would just be more dead if that was the case.

Ok, you made your point. I would be more dead if that were to happen. Sorry I even started this argument. I was just frustrated.
Windbreaker wrote:
My point was "Millennial internet fuckboy" generally refers to someone who is worthless. Can't a guy be an asshole and still have purpose in life?

If you want to exact any real change in this community, being an armchair asshole is not the way to go about it.

Although my first statement was intended to be serious (you can't insult someone by calling them something their not), the second sentence was sort of a joke. I believe that laughter can usually heal all wounds. Looking back however, that probably wasn't the best time to laugh though.
Windbreaker wrote:So that responsibility falls on Ryoko and I? I'm just saying -- you're arguing for the time and effort of two people in the community, who don't have the skills and experience you need for your ideas. Because Ryoko and I are the only ones that still make multiplayer mappacks. I just don't understand why this seemed like a fight worth having to you.

Like I said above, I was actually referring to anybody & everybody. I understand that coding may not be your thing, but it's the engine that's holding us back from getting new users & more variety. New users try the game only to be disgusted by it's archaic nature & creakiness. The only other way to play Marathon is using Freeverse's M2 engine, but unfortunately for us they didn't release the source. Anyone can learn to develop. Is it tedious? Yes. Is it time consuming? Yes. But honestly I think it's the only way. Not even I can guarantee that I can completely iron out AlephOne. There are plenty of us here on this site (well at least enough to develop) But currently there's only one man maintaining the engine: Hopper. If you truly want Marathon to have a larger, more vibrant community, you'd do it.
Windbreaker wrote:That's funny, because many people online specifically play because they enjoy Marathon's multiplayer experience.

An interesting fact about me is that I prefer old games for their story & new ones for their multiplayer. The old games were pioneers in their time &, like classic books, arguably have the best stories out there. Their Multiplayers tend to get old quick though, as they have less variety/game modes. The newer games on the other hand tend to have shit stories (most of the time you're just invading an arab country or Russia & killing everyone because "they're evil" or some other worn out stereotypical shit). However their wide & dynamic environments are what make them worth playing. Their great multiplayer can sometimes be countered by a community of dick hole "PC master-race" assholes though.
Windbreaker wrote:You're acting like your opinion of multiplayer should dictate the efforts of the whole community. And as we've said before, 3 out of 10 of the latest uploads have been multiplayer maps, so they are certainly not the entire effort of the community right now, so you can't say "I wish this community would do something else!!" Do you have a problem with how often we release maps? Because I'd think someone concerned with the community's activity would be, at a base level, happy to see people still making stuff for it in earnest. That's what I've always thought, at least.
I never implied they were facts, I just have very strong opinions about things. Frankly, it was the "in my opinion" part that comes before the sentence that was implied.

Frankly,
If everyone in this community starts to hate me because of that, guess what? Fallout is still a piece of shit.

If I get banned because I offend a rabid fallout admin, fallout is still a piece of shit.

aren't phrased like opinions, and:
The main reason why anyone would play Marathon these days is for it's campaign. It's wonderful campaign.

Doesn't have the word opinion anywhere in it. So I don't know what you're talking about there. Frankly.

My strong strait forward personality is very similar to Linus Torvalds's personality. I will often blunt things out that are harsh/brutally honest, but that's just who I am. That's why I sometimes reference him here in the Pfhorums, I see him sort of like a role model of a developer. Since 6th grade I've been a fan of his work. You can see an excellent sample of his rude crude personality here.
Windbreaker wrote:Your priorities just confuse me. If you want to code, focus on honing that skill. How effective do you think you'd be as a developer if you keep shitting on random people in the community? That's Wrk's job anyways.

That's true Wrk's a dick. He's actually the one that setoff a lot of my hostility in this community, before he told me his insults were jokes. Though sometimes I still wonder.
philtron wrote:My advice to you. Take a break from the Pfhorums. Take a couple months away and come back with fresh eyes.

I'll take a week break at most. Hopefully by then someone will have posted something new.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 28th '16, 02:19

This guy just compared himself to Linus Torvalds.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 28th '16, 02:27

RyokoTK wrote:This guy just compared himself to Linus Torvalds.

Is anyone really surprised at this point?

Also, I still can't figure out what "insults" Alpha is referring to. Yeah I told him to "Please get a new computer", right after irons did. Maybe I have a very messed up view of things, but it's clearly a joke and can hardly be considered an insult.

I also don't consider it insulting to point out when someone is wrong or acting like an idiot. Oh well.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Aug 28th '16, 02:49

RyokoTK wrote:This guy just compared himself to Linus Torvalds.

So you've never looked up to someone?

I'm just gonna' ignore Wrk, since he's just being Wrk.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:02

3371-Alpha wrote:The only thing I don't understand now is what the hell happened to everyone? Crater Creator & Philltron told me about the time when this community was much more active. Even without them telling me, it's also evident by all the abandoned projects on Simplici7y (ie. tim4i). This is also why I don't really find the Marathon multiplayer to be that fun, I've never played with more than 6 people. That's hardly a party. Why is it that I joined this community after it died?! Just my luck.


Abandoned projects on Simplic7y are actually part of a long tradition. Before that, it was abandoned projects on Fileball, and before that abandoned projects on the Bungie.org archives. They're nothing new, and I wouldn't consider them a reliable sign of anything. Or at least there are far better measurements out there.

Getting more players could be a fun project to work on. I once looked at Lhowon and saw Tuesday night was peak marathon. Looking right now there doesn't seem to be much of a peak. But yeah, maybe something like that could be fun.
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Switch
NYC

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:12

3371-Alpha wrote:
patrick wrote:

you're lame

NETMAPS ARE FUCKING WORTHLESS, GET OVER IT!
Wrkncacnter wrote:[I hope you get the irony of telling others what type of computer they should be using.

If a person dives in a vat of radioactive shit and I tell him his chances of getting cancer are extremely high, does that mean I'm forcing him to develop cancer?
I'm not forcing anyone to get a Macintosh, just saying it only makes logical sense for most Marathon gamers to be Mac users because of it's history as a Mac exclusive game.

I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.
Quite frankly alpha (lowercase on purpose), you are an asshole. I don't play net games at all, yet I've played every netmap, those without A.I combatants I've LUA scripted some in to have pfhun and enjoy the lovely architecture. You seem to hate the community here for not catering to your every whim. I feel ashamed to have been born in 1990 and share the same generation as your ilk. Go join the Doomworld forums if you dislike the lack of solo maps, they have thousands more than we do and some are pretty good (and bad). Quite frankly I don't like you and I've never met you in person either. This community is not about you just because you exist, it's about Marathon, if you don't like it you an leave.
Last edited by hawkeyefile on Aug 28th '16, 03:28, edited 1 time in total.
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:23

treellama wrote:
The built-in archive utility for OS X has no such feature.

Of course it does:
Code: Select all
zip -r netmaps.zip -x ".DS_Store" netmaps/



Hmm handy! I had no idea about that -x option or to use it in that manner. I'm use to using a two liner rm .DS_Store before zip. I for one am pleasantly surprised reading this this thread wasn't an utter waste of time. Thanks!

@Alpha, you have way too much time on your hands. If you want to be a like Linus Torvalds go pick up a C book, he hates C++, and go learn something.
Last edited by herecomethej2000 on Aug 28th '16, 03:31, edited 1 time in total.
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herecomethej2000
Ledyard, CT

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:26

3371-Alpha wrote:I'm just gonna' ignore Wrk, since he's just being Wrk.

Or it's because I never insulted you, and you know it.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:29

Wrkncacnter wrote:
3371-Alpha wrote:I'm just gonna' ignore Wrk, since he's just being Wrk.

Or it's because I never insulted you, and you know it.

Burn!
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:32

hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.

Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it. Emulation is where you translate the machine instructions to run on a foreign architecture. Because your machine was already a 68k native machine, there was no need for translation, only virtualization. The reason why your Amiga was faster than a real 68k Mac was because the last version of the 68k processor Apple used was the 68040, while yours was a 68060 (the next generation). By the time Motorola introduced the 68060, they had already moved on to the PowerPC. Believe it or not, the PowerPC was much faster than the 68060. The only real limit the PowerMacs had was that many apps has to be ran through the Mac OS's built-in 68k emulator, since not all the developers decided to rewrite their apps for the new chip.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
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3371-Alpha
Veldin Orbit

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:41

3371-Alpha wrote:
hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.

Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it. Emulation is where you translate the machine instructions to run on a foreign architecture. Because your machine was already a 68k native machine, there was no need for translation, only virtualization. The reason why your Amiga was faster than a real 68k Mac was because the last version of the 68k processor Apple used was the 68040, while yours was a 68060 (the next generation). By the time Motorola introduced the 68060, they had already moved on to the PowerPC. Believe it or not, the PowerPC was much faster than the 68060. The only real limit the PowerMacs had was that many apps has to be ran through the Mac OS's built-in 68k emulator, since not all the developers decided to rewrite their apps for the new chip.


Technically, Fusion was not virtualization, it was emulation. The 68k instruction set used for the Amiga was radically different that virtualization of the Mac platform on an Amiga was not possible in the early 90's. It also ran just as fast on my 68040 and 68030. I'd rather you not correct someone who does know what they are talking about and actively works in the electronic design industry. Unlike you, I actually studied and made it in life, whereas you would argue with a fence post to increase your post count.
Here is an interesting read: http://simon.mooli.org.uk/AF/FusionVShapeShifter.pdf
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:50

3371-Alpha wrote:
hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.

Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it.


Look kid, no one gives a flying hoot, and you just come off as a twerp even if you were right. So either way there is no win for you.
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herecomethej2000
Ledyard, CT

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:53

But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:56

herecomethej2000 wrote:
3371-Alpha wrote:
hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.

Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it.


Look kid, no one gives a flying hoot, and you just come off as a twerp even if you were right. So either way there is no win for you.

He isn't right, the 68040 chipset by itself is very basic in terms of instruction sets. That's why we needed a separate ROM chip for the emulator to function, later it was done via software (albeit at a performance hit, mine was hardware based). Alpha seems to fail to understand that the 68k chipset is nowhere near as unified as the x86-64 architecture.
Last edited by hawkeyefile on Aug 28th '16, 03:59, edited 1 time in total.
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Aug 28th '16, 03:58

RyokoTK wrote:But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.

Yeah, alpha can't leave for a week. He's single-handedly restoring the Pfhorums to their former glory.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Aug 28th '16, 04:00

Wrkncacnter wrote:
RyokoTK wrote:But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.

Yeah, alpha can't leave for a week. He's single-handedly restoring the Pfhorums to their former glory.

We need to have the pigeon lounge back for people like him. I use to be an arrogant bitch like him, although I grew out of it.
Scratch that, I've never openly mocked the dev/mapper community that allows us to exist here and complain.
Last edited by hawkeyefile on Aug 28th '16, 04:07, edited 1 time in total.
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Aug 28th '16, 04:07

hawkeyefile wrote: Alpha seems to fail to understand that the 68k chipset is nowhere near as unified as the x86-64 architecture.


That and Apple always did things their own way even if the processor was the exact same. Look at intel macs and how hard it is to get MacOSX running on non mac hardware. Low level emulation is almost certainly required.
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herecomethej2000
Ledyard, CT

Post Aug 28th '16, 04:12

:wacko:
herecomethej2000 wrote:
hawkeyefile wrote: Alpha seems to fail to understand that the 68k chipset is nowhere near as unified as the x86-64 architecture.


That and Apple always did things their own way even if the processor was the exact same. Look at intel macs and how hard it is to get MacOSX running on non mac hardware. Low level emulation is almost certainly required.

Gotta justify that 400% markup somehow.
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hawkeyefile
In front of my terminal debugging mainframes...

Post Sep 26th '16, 18:39

RyokoTK wrote:But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.


fridgehorror_7453.png
fridgehorror_7453.png (14.18 KiB) Viewed 1347 times


Good luck with that

I was going to try and say something coherent, but I don't think anybody would care enough to read it. The gist is, Alpha, is that you're going to grow up and (probably) move on from this place, and (probably) without leaving much trace of your time here. You'll go to college, find yourself in a relationship, get a job, and you'll look back on the days when you spent most of your waking hours insulting strangers online, masturbating to things you found on 4Chan, and trying to complete Marathon Evil on TC with a particular kind of nostalgia.

Ultimately, the things people do create, whether they be netmaps, solo maps, or even the bog-standard mutated physics model, did so because they love the game. Who cares if what they made was appalling? The community will certainly let them know. What matters is that they spent the time to create (free) content for a 20-year-old sprite-based FPS, when they could have done much better things with their time. If you don't appreciate that, that's fine by me, because it's not as if you'll listen to any of this.

- Especially because my netmaps were the mapping equivalents of afterbirths, so I have zero authority here. The Clique still owns my soul.
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Dugit
Hampshire, UK

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