I will play every level in Marathon and comment on them

[ravenshining]

CluckyInventor, I do hope you are not discouraged by the old hands disapproval - I'm not. In a way, knowing that they disapprove of everything I'm trying to do frees me to take as much artistic license as I desire. Why Treelama bothers to work on Aleph One at all with that kind of attitude I have no idea, nevermind his efforts help others port it to new engines. In a way, I see this project as a port, since Aleph one is vastly more capable than M1, it just happens to be a port to an engine it's already built for and with which I have 20+ years of experience with.

I mean, Slave does have a point that everything needs to be updated together in order for it to work, although that's exactly what I'm trying to do. The blocky architecture is exactly the piece I'm most focused on at the moment, personally I believe the weak link are the sprites. Fortunately, Flippant Sol's XBR stuff does a great job of improving the existing artwork, and Tacticus's work shows that sprites may be made beautiful with the help of some 3D modelling and prerendering.

[CluckyInventor]

Since we're all sharing, I'll just say that I'm not reading it as I have no interest in playing marathon 1 or anything based on it.

I haven't been reading it. Original Marathon needs no improvements.

Oh really? Then how did you know to speak up when I called for attention? :thinking:

i opened the thread to see what wrk wrote

At least you have a reason.

...
It was at this moment that the secret, underground cult of the Pfhorums took action against the upstart. Notifications were sent to the top-ranking Pfhorums users about the newcomer's brash words, but he did not back down after the veteran members had laid clear their disinterest, so they took action and the rather insulting upstart was no more. RIP CluckyInventor 2018-2018.
...

I will chime in and say that I always liked the loop-the-loop flow of Cool Fusion but I find the level to be too easy. I would suggest making it vacuum as already discussed and adding an oxygen station somewhere midway through the level

I'm not sure how much attention you are paying to the thread, but we are thinking about doing something as discussed in this thread: http://pfhorums.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=53533. Part of the level would be "vacuum," namely the part that is called a vacuum chamber on the map, but the rest of the level would be normal. I personally don't think the whole level should be vacuum; do you have any idea how hard the pit would be with just a fusion pistol, particularly if some fighters were replaced with hunters or other vacuum-enabled enemies?

Just want to say that I think this thread is a neat idea, like M1R itself, that I unfortunately don't have the time to even keep up with properly, much less contribute to. But I look forward to eventually looking back on it some day.

Don't worry, updating Eternal is a very worthy obligation. I don't even want to tell you how many times I've tried to get my friends to play Eternal but they say, "The big problem with this game (using an engine as dated as Aleph One) is that the textures aren't in ultra HD!!!" Glad you identified that problem as #1 and set out for a fix.

On a more serious note, I really do like Eternal, and while I was skeptical about the whole HD textures things, some of them look reallly cool. Keep up the good work, you have a more than valid excuse. I look forward to seeing the finished release of the next (and likely final) version of Eternal.

@$lave

I'd like to think that we have a shot at making at least half decent terminals. Just look at how much information we know if we do a quick visit to the story page. So long as the quality is close enough I believe it could be a nice addition to the game.

The hound may be a possible addition just from what has already been said.

There may be some validity to the point that making things look too much better is counterproductive. However, I don't think Marathon 1 is at that point. Look at M2's architecture. Is that ruined by the limitations of the engine? But isn't it more complex than M1's? I feel like you are saying something to the effect of "Since you can't make anything that realistic in Aleph One, any realism at all is bad." But I would contend that, at least to some extent, more realism is better.

EDIT: Just saw RavenShining's post. As should be clear now, I'm not discouraged, I just have other things in life so it takes me some time (particularly when I have 2 versions of a level to compare). I'm hoping to have G4 done by tomorrow. Another note: SLN,TLC was more tedious than difficult since I could never have peace. I don't recall ever dying other than when I got stuck in the secret room. I would suggest toning how the spawning works on that level rather than making it easier. I'll talk more about difficulty in my G4 review

[Flowers]

do you have any idea how hard the pit would be with just a fusion pistol, particularly if some fighters were replaced with hunters or other vacuum-enabled enemies?

Yeah, that'd be badass. I'll be honest, my PERSONAL perspective on M1 Redux is that I've already played M1 and want something more, something to challenge a player who has already played Marathon multiple times over. In a game like Dark Souls for example, you beat the game once and restart the game on New Game+. New Game+ is designed to be more difficult. The difficulty boost serves to keep the player interested in a game they've already became familiar with and completed. The only people playing M1 Redux would be those who have already beat the original trilogy (probably many, many times over along with other custom content) and as such, there should be new expectations for these players.

Just my two cents. It's not my project and I'm sure some people would disagree with me on this.

[ravenshining]

Yeah, that'd be badass. I'll be honest, my PERSONAL perspective on M1 Redux is that I've already played M1 and want something more, something to challenge a player who has already played Marathon multiple times over. In a game like Dark Souls for example, you beat the game once and restart the game on New Game+. New Game+ is designed to be more difficult. The difficulty boost serves to keep the player interested in a game they've already became familiar with and completed. The only people playing M1 Redux would be those who have already beat the original trilogy (probably many, many times over along with other custom content) and as such, there should be new expectations for these players.

Just my two cents. It's not my project and I'm sure some people would disagree with me on this.

That is an excellent point. After all, who would play M1 on anything less than Major Damage - and even then, purists will only play on Total Carnage. (personally, I prefer Major Damage for variety of colour/enemies, and the limited ammo). I think difficulty should be rescaled so what was "Normal" (keeping that low bar in for the sake of folks like Narcogen & Blackstar) you now experience on "Kindergarten," and Total Carnage is the new normal.

And when it comes to secrets, everyone already knows where the secrets are. I've been planning on making it easier to access all the old secrets, while adding new ones for people to discover. I might have to have paralell forks for development even, one "public" fork that will be included with the progressive release, and one "complete" fork that will be kept away until it's finally time for v1.0. That does make working together harder, so maybe Github will house the full versions, while Simplici7y only gets the public releases.

[treellama]

I haven't been reading it. Original Marathon needs no improvements.

Oh really? Then how did you know to speak up when I called for attention? :thinking:

I read Pfhorrest's post in the process of clicking through new posts, just not your long walkthrough posts. I'm here primarily because of the original trilogy--and I've already been through Marathon in fine detail adding support to Aleph One--so if you're going to stomp on that, I'm not interested. That doesn't mean you should stop, if that's what you like doing, but you sort of invited us to be candid with "Hey, guys, I know you are reading this."

And another thing, since when is CLIQUE a secret!?

[$lave]

@$lave
I'd like to think that we have a shot at making at least half decent terminals. Just look at how much information we know if we do a quick visit to the story page. So long as the quality is close enough I believe it could be a nice addition to the game.

Again, I never said anything 'cause I'm not the target demographic of that. I've always found 3rd party attempts at writing for Leela and/or Durandal to be unconvincing and so I don't enjoy scenarios that use their characters. I'm sure that the people who are interested in your project may feel differently.

There may be some validity to the point that making things look too much better is counterproductive. However, I don't think Marathon 1 is at that point. Look at M2's architecture. Is that ruined by the limitations of the engine? But isn't it more complex than M1's? I feel like you are saying something to the effect of "Since you can't make anything that realistic in Aleph One, any realism at all is bad." But I would contend that, at least to some extent, more realism is better.

I think the architecture could be improved in M1 but one of my biggest pet peeves is people tossing things like "chairs" and "beds" into alephone, I always think they look confusing and unprofessional. Ex cathedra is probably the closest M2 came to trying to pull off realism and I also think it's about as close as the Marathon engine can come without becoming cheesy. imo complexity is fine in the engine, but if you want realism I'd say use a different engine for this project.

[ravenshining]

Again, I never said anything 'cause I'm not the target demographic of that. I've always found 3rd party attempts at writing for Leela and/or Durandal to be unconvincing and so I don't enjoy scenarios that use their characters. I'm sure that the people who are interested in your project may feel differently.

So far, we've mostly been writing for BoBs and tech documents, and will be writing for the Pfhor, although there will be Tycho in the future. That is Tycho pre-assimillation, so there's less of a legacy to go by. If you have any constructive criticism of our one Durandal page, I'd love to hear it.

I think the architecture could be improved in M1 but one of my biggest pet peeves is people tossing things like "chairs" and "beds" into alephone, I always think they look confusing and unprofessional. Ex cathedra is probably the closest M2 came to trying to pull off realism and I also think it's about as close as the Marathon engine can come without becoming cheesy. imo complexity is fine in the engine, but if you want realism I'd say use a different engine for this project.

I will agree that using polygons to simulate common furniture has always looked silly to me. On the other hand, I believe 3D-modelled scenery has great potential in this area. And if the object is radially symmetric, even a sprite will do, just look at the biohazard crates if you want a bad example from the original.

Before I jump into that, however, I do want to make sure I have all the large scenery objects I'm already using in 3D, which should be of benefit to the whole trilogy (I'm looking at you, M∞ glass cylinders...). I'll do them myself if necessary.

[$lave]

Recreations of the scenery items as actual 3D models does actually seem like a legitimate improvement. Spinny scenery has always bothered me :c

[philtron]

CLIQUE

What is CLIQUE??
I still do not know.
I fear answer.
Frog blast the vent core.

[CluckyInventor]

Sorry. Things in Real Life took up far more time than expected.

I made CLIQUE a secret since it sounded cooler that way. It's one of those secrets that everyone know about, like "open sesame".

For the record, thanks, Treellama, you have done good work up to this point (time stop and many other features are now in M1A1 that make it more true to the original), and while I still hope you are willing to do more, I guess that's not reasonable to ask of you.

Level 08: G4 Sunbathing
This is a personal favorite of mine.

There's a lot of things this level has going for it:

(1) Good level design

I will admit that this is the first level I had to use the Spoiler Guide on in my first playthrough of the game. But that is not fault of the level; I made a very idiotic error. I saw the first switch and thought "I'll save this for later, I want to explore some more" but I never came back to that switch and got hopelessly confused as to what I was supposed to be doing since every other switch didn't work. But aside from when my idiocy gets in the way of things, this level's design is really good. Objectively, it's a switch hunt, which sounds really boring but the way it is done is so good. When you hit the switch, you see an area light up and you think "I need to go there next." Which is exactly what you should do on this level. Seeing areas light up also gives a sense of progress that other switch hunt levels just don't have. There's something comforting and rewarding about being in the light, notwithstanding the fact it lets you see the invisible compilers easier.

(2) Good Atmostphere

Speaking of lighting, this level continues the classic Marathon look of very dark areas put right next to very light ones (at least, once you have flipped some switches). Combined with the music "landing," this level really keeps you on your toes. Particularly since I just run around the upper portions of the level and end up activating all the monsters on the lower portions. Said aliens proceed to open the airlock doors without actually coming upstairs, so my motion sensor goes crazy and I keep expecting some ambush that never materializes.

(3) Decent combat

Personally, I've wondered if the whole vacuum mechanic was introduced just so you don't get your machine gun for this level. After all, you might have done what I did and go the entirety of Cool Fusion without using it. Now, you have to go through this entire level using pretty much only the fusion gun (and occasionally using dual-wielded pistols). The combat is no cakewalk with the large number of compilers that can sneak up and attack from unexpected directions, beefy hunters to shoot you and to tank your shots, and troopers to shred you if you ignore them. Yet the fusion pistol handles the combat fairly well. This is how introductions to weapons should work instead of easy, guided tutorials you might find in more modern games.

I should note that if you do what I did and totally fail the jump to the switch room you will find a rather large number of baddies waiting for you in the lower parts of the map. I just ran away to the chargers since you really don't have much time to be exploring or fighting on TC since oxygen drains so fast. When I got back to the middle of the map, I prepared to fight the two troopers that chased me. Troopers down, I got full health and started filling my oxygen. Another trooper snuck up on me, and even though I was quick on the draw and shot it with my fusion pistol, my double health was reduced to 10% hp. Ouch. Of course, the purple troopers might be aggressive if they sneak up on you, but normally, they aren't that much of a problem

(4) Even some realism put in
The design of the station with centrality having the chargers, etc. feels like good design that a real person might actually build, unlike much of the M1 architecture.

By the way,

Thanks, Perseus! I'd never known that wasps were weak to fusion. I'd always thought the fusion pistol was a natural fit to take on wasps since it was accurate and had the burst to kill them. I didn't know that it actually did more damage to them, I thought the characteristics of the fusion pistol just made it a good weapon for felling the things.

I've left the commentary on the Redux version of the level for that thread.

[Flowers]

Thanks, Perseus! I'd never known that wasps were weak to fusion. I'd always thought the fusion pistol was a natural fit to take on wasps since it was accurate and had the burst to kill them. I didn't know that it actually did more damage to them, I thought the characteristics of the fusion pistol just made it a good weapon for felling the things.

I was under the impression that bonus damage wasn't present in M1, as if I remember correctly, hunters didn't take bonus damage from fusion until M2. Is that wrong too? My whole world is crashing down around me. I learn something new though.

[CluckyInventor]

I'm just taking Perseus's word that wasps take more damage from fusion. I know hunters don't, though. Just because hunters don't take bonus fusion damage in M1 doesn't mean no enemy takes bonus damage.

Level 09: Blaspheme Quarentine
Tour of Duty Link http://forums.bungie.org/story/?read=63387

Hulks are immune to flamethrower? I learn something new every day! Thanks, Perseus! (I just never tried to use the flamethrower on hulks; this is the only level which you can and I never struggled with the combat to justify flamethrower use)

Speaking of that…

I feel like the combat should be really hard and fun. However, it didn't impress. I imagine that the hulks should be meatshields for fighters who sneak up on you or snipe you from afar. However, I triggered the fighters all too early, cleaned them up with the AR (since that works on compilers as well, unlike the flamethrower that Redux seems to be giving you all too much ammo for. First version of BGN had to have flamethrower ammo nerfed, and that's not counting the two cans just lying around on G4). It's easy to clean up the hulks after the fact.

And then the next room I cheesed by shooting in with the dual pistols. One of the hulks came out but wouldn't jump off the ledge, and was easy to snipe, but the other one chased me down. Time to teleport to the next room, the one with the famous Durandal terminal.

There's three compilers here, who, while they have given me trouble in the past, were rather easy to dispatch. Hmm, maybe there should be three more. After all, then one of them could read the I've-got-a-shotgun-and-you-ain't-got-one masterpiece terminal.

The next room might seem challenging, but the hulk was last to the party and let his friends get decimated by AR fire. On top of that, he didn't seem to want to step on the poly on the side of the pit close to where you spawn in. I just watched him go back and forth, too scared to step onto the polygon I was on. Monster pathing issues here?

And now, we get the encounter with what President People aptly called the Slowww Door™. The purpose of said door is clearly to guarentee that you don't skip the fight and run to the objective. I think now we *should* have the technology to do that by having the door open after a certain amount of time after you teleport into this room, so once you finish said fight you don't have to wait for the Slowww Door™, while still preventing people from running past this encounter.

If you happen to have some strange, inexplicable love for waiting next to slow doors, I'm sorry for suggesting removal of this feature.

After you drop back to the main sections of the level, you get a final fight that could probably use a trooper for extra flavor. While I do see this level as the hulk/fighter fantasy, one trooper here or there for flavor probably shouldn't be amiss. This hulk/fighter theme definitely needs some work to be challenging though; you shouldn't be able to pick off the enemies and then just clean up the hulks, though I'm not sure what the convenient solution is for that.

If you go back through the teleporters to pick up some secrets, the door closes again, which is sorta inconvenient.

On the whole, this level is Durandal's puzzle, and when hitting one switch causes other platforms to mess up you do get the feel that Durandal is messing with you. Maybe this theme could be expanded upon, more platform-based puzzles? (plz nothing too cancerous, tho) Maybe you should look at the terminals and see this is the "Science Station" so the level could be expanded that way? I really don't know.

At the end of the day, Durandal says: "That wasn't very hard was it? No? Well, then the next time, I'll just have to make it harder." The next time should be now.

[ravenshining]

I think this would be a good candidate to be a rebellion level, both in terms of difficulty, and in terms of reinforcing the idea of it being a quarantine centre.

Also, i may be more or less absent for the next week due to Pascha.

[PerseusSpartacus]

Funny, I had totally forgotten that Wasps were weak to fusion in M1A1 - I have no idea if that's the way they were in the original game, though. It only becomes clear that they even have said weakness if you split the M1A1 map open with Atque and then open one of the physics files contained inside with ShapeFusion/Anvil. As for the Hulks, I believe they were always immune to the Flamethrower (just like Hunters and Compilers).

EDIT: This also reminds me - @ravenshining, are you thinking of making the Hunters, Compilers and Juggernauts weak to Fusion in the same way that they are in M2 (which would probably require an additional sprinkling of enemies to keep things challenging)?

[treellama]

I was under the impression that bonus damage wasn't present in M1, as if I remember correctly, hunters didn't take bonus damage from fusion until M2. Is that wrong too? My whole world is crashing down around me. I learn something new though.

Weaknesses and immunities were present in the first Marathon, but Pfhor armor is not weak to fusion until Durandal's compilers build the new fusion pistol for you in Marathon 2.

[PerseusSpartacus]

Yes, I just re-read the terminal on We're Everywhere where Durandal says:

"Have you tried your new fusion gun against
the armored Pfhor hunters yet? My S'pht
rebuilt it with the sole purpose of short-
circuiting Pfhor-built machinery."

Which suggests that, canon-wise, the Fusion Pistol in Marathon 2 is really meant to be a very different design from that in the original Marathon, and so for Redux, it would make sense to leave the Pfhor mechanical enemies as they are instead of adding a weakness to fusion.

[ravenshining]

Funny, I had totally forgotten that Wasps were weak to fusion in M1A1 - I have no idea if that's the way they were in the original game, though. It only becomes clear that they even have said weakness if you split the M1A1 map open with Atque and then open one of the physics files contained inside with ShapeFusion/Anvil. As for the Hulks, I believe they were always immune to the Flamethrower (just like Hunters and Compilers).

EDIT: This also reminds me - @ravenshining, are you thinking of making the Hunters, Compilers and Juggernauts weak to Fusion in the same way that they are in M2 (which would probably require an additional sprinkling of enemies to keep things challenging)?

It's also apparent if you've ever used the original Marathon Physics model editor. I use that and Pfhred a lot to check M1A1 against the original physics and shapes, they aren't entirely consistent.

Hunters were weak to fusion in the first release, and I quickly rectified the error. Next release I'll have the Compilers and Juggernauts fixed, too. AFAIK only MADDs and Wasps should be weak to it, and

Spoiler:

Major Grenade Hulks will be immune to fusion.

edit: Just double checked, Treelama is right. MADDs are weak to fusion in M1A1, but not the original. So, the fusion pistol is merely a ranged bug zapper.

[treellama]

MADDs were not weak to fusion in the original. Just wasps.

[CluckyInventor]

If I wrote up every excuse I have for not posting, then this would be a thread about my excuses and not about Marathon levels. I'll try to be better at posting at least once per week if not much more.

I'd like to say that if you make BQ a rebellion level, my first thoughts playing the level would be "So that's why they gave me so many flamethrower cans on G4, you don't ever get to use them!!! RIP my rocket launcher packs from the secrets!" If you do go this route, then either (1) rebalance secrets to be useful or (2) make G4 have 100 flamethrower cans to rub in the loss. Admittedly, how else are you gonna exchange staffs if you don't have rebellion levels? If you want to please rebellion critics like Ryoko make sure to not slow down the tempo too much the way the M2 rebellion level did (back to the pistols for you is not the most fun idea).

In the time between the Blaspheme Quarantine review and now, I played through Blaspheme Quarantine again and I have this to say about it.

Level 09, Blaspheme Quarantine, Take 2:

Yes, there definitely is a monster pathing issue in the aforementioned spot. Even the fighters seem to have second thoughts about chasing me into it.

This level was so non-difficulty that I still had 40% yellow health for Bob-B-Q.

Level 10: Bob-B-Q

First things first: Has anyone ever killed every single alien and saved enough BoBs while playing on TC? If so, please send me the film.

Tour of Duty link: http://forums.bungie.org/story/?read=63410

How to save enough BoBs E-Z (even on TC):

(1) Rush to the secret charger. Clear all the blue fighters.
(2) Charge and clear a path back to spawn.
(3) Grenade jump up from spawn, activate the platform.
(4) Clear the room with the elevator to the final room
(5) Go to the final room. Clear it out. Go to the terminal. Win. (since you have went in so few areas the BoBs are still alive.)

Why isn't this level an extermination? Admittedly, I'm running the Marathon download and not the M1A1 download so I'm not sure if that has an impact on things, but this definitely should be an extermination level.

That being said...

If this was an extermination level, it might be a little bit hard to save enough BoBs [citation needed].

As it is, the level isn't too hard once you get past the first bit (which is made much easier if you know of the secret health charger; maybe reduce this charger to 1x health). Just whore the 2x charger(s). It's true that both saves are on the upper levels so if you don't know to grenade jump up there you do run the risk of going far back if you die. But other than maybe that one room Perseus struggled with, there's really nothing hard past the beginning.

Then there's the BoB factor. Maybe it is possible to save enough while eliminating all Pfhor and I'm just another spazzeroid. However, many of the BoBs are placed in positions where it is practically impossible to save them. Just look at the two in that little closet in the north side of the map. There's two BoBs sandwiched between a fighter and a hunter at front... how are you supposed to save these?

Assuming I'm not just bad, I'd look at either (1) adjusting BoB positioning to make it more reasonable to save them or (2) maybe add an extra room with a big fight yet savable BoBs. I'm imaging the ideal for this level is "If you run in recklessly with your 2x health, you can save the BoBs (but you have to manage not dying while doing this)", and sometimes the level just doesn't feel that way. I'm imagining this room would look something like this: you enter in the middle. On one side, there's like a dozen BoBs, who may help you since they are armed. On the other side, there's a lot of powerful Pfhor who are gonna steam roll the BoBs if you don't get into the thick of things. Maybe you can even give the BoBs a MADD if you have a really epic fight.

As for the level's aesthetics, this level is one of the more decent looking ones in M1 in my opinion. This may be because the second floor allows rooms to have more depth to them then is the case with many of the polygon-limited M1 rooms. Of course, if you want to do better, remember this is supposed to be an engineering area (from the final G4 terminal), so you can use that as inspiration.

[ravenshining]

I just played through a few times myself, and yeah, I can save like 1-3 BoBs on TC. I'll definitely look at setting up the fights in a more balanced and realistic way (seriously, are they just hanging out in that closet kissing until I come along or something? "Oh @#%^! It's the SO- they can't know about our love. Kill me now, and save yourself!") and maybe adding in a good pitched battle somewhere with a few MADDs.

On lower difficulties, this map is a terrible BoB-jam generator. Divvying up corridors for better monster pathing and co-op will be a must to avoid having frustrated players liberally applying grenades to the problem.

[CluckyInventor]

Only 1-3? I think I saved like 4-5 not counting the ones in that side room which are safe unless you shoot them or let them out too early. Still nowhere near close to success though.

Isn't the lower corridor of the main rectangle wider as is? I don't think it would make things look out of place to make all corridors at least that wide.

Level 11: Shake Before using...
Tour of Duty Link: http://forums.bungie.org/story/?read=63430

I know this area is supposed to be an engineering area, but I can't help but look at the level and think SCIENCE. I'm not sure why, maybe it has to do with the biohazard symbol thingies on the doors? You'd think the very obvious reactor looking things would be enough to convince me otherwise, but noo...

This level features an original frightened and likely soon to die crewman log. It would probably look inconsistent to not have more of Radix's anime, I mean, BoB drawings for this terminal. I also note that the message is not intact; some corruption occured, and that's a style that will at some point have to be mirrored.

An air vent was mentioned in that term, but I don't see one lying around. Is it type for my favorite fan texture to be pulled out again (since we have the power now)? Maybe it's not that big, just some crack in the wall would be enough for the poor BoB to crawl through.

This is the player's first encounter with 3x health, assuming they didn't find the secret on NBM. Then the player reaches the first trap room which could be rather difficult, but I have a secret way to make it easier. While remembering how to do it, I messed up, pulled out my flamethrower, and... Oops! Problem solved! I guess I don't need my secret method after all.

Just in case you are curious about what this method is, I made a little video showing it. I apologize that the audio got desynched. https://youtu.be/P-gI1zNEPz0

To me, this first trap room looks more like a vacuum chamber than the actual experimental vacuum chamber on Cool Fusion. There's an airlock, for one! How cool would it be if Redux built an airlock control room which had a window into the first trap, you could pressurize the chamber (use that liquid trick that has been mentioned before), blow up the fighters, and then maybe depressurize it as well if you want. Of course, since this is probably gonna be a timed level (will talk about this more later on), you may not want to spend your time pressurizing and depressurizing a chamber just to kill a few fighters.

I'd like to mention the third and final "trap", the long walkway over the abyss. This looks really cool. Screw realism, this needs to stay. If you want realism, put it in other places, like "Why is there an airlock on only one side of trap #1? Why aren't there more corridors connecting places in more logical manners (which don't work so gameplay is preserved)? Please don't ruin the abyss.

Finally, the player reaches some reactor looking things, but there's no bomb. The player doesn't even need to do anything! This should be like Hairy Legs from Rubicon, the player has a time limit to complete their mission. Of course, then there has to be a convincing Pfhor bomb, and a convincing way to disarm it.

[Flowers]

I'm a little late but I'd like to say Bob-B-Q is actually one of my favorite levels in Marathon. To me, it perfectly encapsulates a hectic, alien invasion that the Bobs are helpless to stop. Not only on paper do you feel the tension, but also in-game as I think Bob-B-Q is a rather big difficulty spike. I always found the levels before Bob-B-Q rather easy but then you get to Bob-B-Q and BAM! You're teleported right into the middle of the action and even if you run you'll likely get sandwiched in if you're unfamiliar with every enemy spawn. And as a plus, I'm personally a big fan of blocky, angular levels.

If Bob-B-Q was to be remade, I'd ask you to consider the idea of enabling respawning enemies at a decent availability% to really keep that urgent feeling to the map.

[ravenshining]

It is an excellent level. However, respawning enemies are not compatible with the ability to succeed on the rescue mission. I could do that for a failure branch however- succeed on The Rose, and you get an intense, but winnable fight, fail on The Rose and it's a bloodbath, fail on both The Rose and Couch Fishing (or something else) and an endless supply of Pfhor are beaming in ala Carroll Street Station.

On Shake Before Using, the abysses are very cool and certainly will stay. I have an idea for realism there, but you won't notice unless you fall ;-)

I might change the biohazard to some other hazard - grenades, while certainly hazardous to biology, aren't *that* kind of hazard.

[Flowers]

It is an excellent level. However, respawning enemies are not compatible with the ability to succeed on the rescue mission. I could do that for a failure branch however- succeed on The Rose, and you get an intense, but winnable fight, fail on The Rose and it's a bloodbath, fail on both The Rose and Couch Fishing (or something else) and an endless supply of Pfhor are beaming in ala Carroll Street Station.

That sounds good, assuming it wouldn't be too much work.

I'm curious ravenshining, (or really anyone who has an opinion and reads this) what level is your favorite in Marathon 1?

[ravenshining]

Colony Ship, despite its deficiencies, stands out for it's great writing.

Neither High nor Low was fun, but kind of pointless.

G4 is of course excellently designed.

Two times Two equals... the best of the Pfhor levels