I will play every level in Eternal X and comment on them.

For topics about the story, help in a certain level, game discussion, or finding/discussing content.

Post May 13th '10, 14:57

irons wrote:I don't think there are separate sound slots for the two machine guns.

I think his "point" is that I should have made a new sound and assigned one machine gun to that sound and the other to the other sound, but because I didn't do that, I'm in no position to complain about something unrelated in a different game...?
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 13th '10, 15:08

RyokoTK wrote:08. To Sleep Perchance to Dream
...


I have very little complaints about Exteranl, but this level frustrated my curious mind aswell. I confess I'm still working on this scenario (chapter 5??), but I too spent the time figuring out what ledges I could hop to in effort to get to the door above the start position with the item flashing in the automap, though never able to reach it.

Is there a point to the item?

This level can be run through point a to b.

edit: maybe it's just the later levels, but I don't think there is a map in this scenario that my computer can hold 30 fps through out.
Last edited by effigy on May 13th '10, 15:10, edited 1 time in total.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post May 13th '10, 16:14

RyokoTK wrote:I think his "point" is that I should have made a new sound and assigned one machine gun to that sound and the other to the other sound, but because I didn't do that, I'm in no position to complain about something unrelated in a different game...?

My point is that you might not even have enough space in your sounds file for that, while chopping the original M1 fusion gun from the player sprite and putting it on the VacBob isn't too hard and also doesn't take up an extra image slot.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post May 13th '10, 16:37

effigy wrote:I have very little complaints about Exteranl, but this level frustrated my curious mind aswell. I confess I'm still working on this scenario (chapter 5??), but I too spent the time figuring out what ledges I could hop to in effort to get to the door above the start position with the item flashing in the automap, though never able to reach it.

Is there a point to the item?

This level can be run through point a to b.

edit: maybe it's just the later levels, but I don't think there is a map in this scenario that my computer can hold 30 fps through out.

The goal of Sleep when you start out on the higher end of the map is to always make your way to the lower end where the 'well' is. That flashing item only comes into play at the end of the game.

:EDIT:
FUCKING LEDGES
Last edited by L'howon on May 13th '10, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

Post May 13th '10, 17:05

Hysterical Womb
[attachment=3742:Hysteric...omb_0001.png]
[attachment=3743:Hysteric...omb_0002.png]

First thing's first: I spoke too soon upon decrying the Pfhor set. It turns out Dysmentria is just a particularly hideous level. This level doesn't look that bad, really; it just seems to need a delicate hand in using these textures.

This level is pretty similar to Dysmentria in more ways than one: it's got that same sprawling randomness that Dysmentria had, as well as a lot of high-octane combat. This time your mission is clearly laid out though: cold-blooded extermination. That's sort of an iffy mission objective because it invariably ends in that tedious hunt for the last monster, though Eternal seems to have the automap show monster locations on by default, so that makes this mission considerably easier.

I actually enjoy this level. When the fighting's done well, it's really Eternal's strength; a lot of the monsters got boosted in strength from the Trilogy, so you're being bombarded a lot more by attacks than you used to. But this level is also laid out nicely, where it seems I always have a recharger nearby when I need it, and that cuts down on the frustration factor big-time. Especially since there are some kind of cheesy gauntlets in this level where you have no way to get through without taking a lot of damage. Nonetheless, the accessibility of 3x rechargers tames that nicely.

The level layout I just can't appreciate. I guess it makes sense in an extermination level to have that kind of weird sprawling network of rooms, since essentially you really do have to visit every room, but it doesn't reduce that kind of chaotic stumbling around that you do at the outset of the level. That's compounded with the teleporters you have to take early on in the level, putting you in the outer reaches of this level and far away from the beginning. It's not bad, overall, I guess, but it's a little hard to come to terms with.

Aesthetically, the level is reasonable enough. The texturing and lighting are hugely improved from Dysmentria, and the geometry itself is suitable. It complements the action-oriented nature of the level nicely, too. Overall, this is a solid level, but it lacks a certain sophistication I guess; Core Wars, this ain't, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Level design: 3.5/5
Architecture: 3.5/5
Combat: 5/5
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 13th '10, 17:21

Lh wrote:The goal of Sleep when you start out on the higher end of the map is to always make your way to the lower end where the 'well' is. That flashing item only comes into play at the end of the game.


Groovy :) I never had trouble finding the well, that item just had my curiosity, so I went exploring trying to reach it. Jumping isn't at all needed to beat this level.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post May 13th '10, 18:39

You forgot a failure branch :)
Eternal - Xmas I - Xmas II - Xmas III - Victory Dance IV - Winter I: The Venom - KTA III - Phoenix - somewhere in the heavens, waiting: The Syndicate
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Drictelt
Belgium

Post May 13th '10, 18:54

Ryoko never fails.
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Wrkncacnter

Post May 13th '10, 19:14

Drictelt wrote:You forgot a failure branch :)


< RyokoTK> I'm not going to do fail levels if I miss them
< effigy> oh? I think you'll miss levels that way
< RyokoTK> well yeah I'll miss levels
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post May 13th '10, 19:27

Drictelt wrote:You forgot a failure branch :)

I forgot nothing. As I said in the first post, if I miss a failure branch, it's missed.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 13th '10, 20:15

RyokoTK wrote:I forgot nothing. As I said in the first post, if I miss a failure branch, it's missed.


Will RyokoTK have to run through the Drinnol Chapter's Jjaro ship twice?
Place your bets.
Unlike the rest of Eternal, where you fail for not reading. This failure branch gets you for not going the extra mile in map exploration and in general.

I'm just saying that this failure route even gets me sometimes even though I've already beaten Eternal X twice.


Eternal X seems to be getting low scores because its mostly story driven.
If your impatient with terminals, and if it happens to be your first time through the later levels, I foresee some failure route reviews.
If not, its actually too bad, I really liked the doomed space station levels. On the level select menu, you can pick your flavor of doomed humanity.
MoppyPuppy
Lake Nebagamon, WI

Post May 13th '10, 20:30

RyokoTK wrote:I find it odd that there are Vacbobs on the Marathon, and that they all have the same Cronus fusion pistol that I do -- did I miss something? I thought these were from the future. These Vacbobs should be using the crappy M1 fusion gun.

Are the VacBobs actually dropping Fusion Pistols? They're only supposed to drop ammo, which for the sake of giving you more fusion ammo during this chapter I decided was unchanged between the Zeus and Cronus class pistols. (It's just a battery, anyway).

As to there being VacBobs on the Marathon at all, I figured that there were always vacuum suits and fusion pistols available to Bobs, we just never saw anyone wearing or wielding them in M1 or M2. But they were around somewhere.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
Director of the Xeventh Project, the team behind Eternal
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
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Pfhorrest
California

Post May 13th '10, 20:33

MoppyPuppy wrote:Will RyokoTK have to run through the Drinnol Chapter's Jjaro ship twice?
Place your bets.
Unlike the rest of Eternal, where you fail for not reading. This failure branch gets you for not going the extra mile in map exploration and in general.

I'm just saying that this failure route even gets me sometimes even though I've already beaten Eternal X twice.
Eternal X seems to be getting low scores because its mostly story driven.
If your impatient with terminals, and if it happens to be your first time through the later levels, I foresee some failure route reviews.
If not, its actually too bad, I really liked the doomed space station levels. On the level select menu, you can pick your flavor of doomed humanity.

Well this commentary focuses mostly on level design because that's what I think is most important in a good scenario. Not to mention I majored in architecture and so "design" is kind of my bread and butter. It's not a holistic look at the entire scenario. I don't believe that you can only have "story-driven" or "combat-driven" levels; Rubicon X had some great levels that combined both.

I focus mostly on poor design decisions. Which EX doesn't really have many of, to be honest.

Also, to clarify: a 3/5 isn't a "low score." A 3/5 level is fine.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 13th '10, 20:35

Pfhorrest wrote:Are the VacBobs actually dropping Fusion Pistols? They're only supposed to drop ammo, which for the sake of giving you more fusion ammo during this chapter I decided was unchanged between the Zeus and Cronus class pistols. (It's just a battery, anyway).

As to there being VacBobs on the Marathon at all, I figured that there were always vacuum suits and fusion pistols available to Bobs, we just never saw anyone wearing or wielding them in M1 or M2. But they were around somewhere.

No, they're dropping batteries. So, a good gameplay decision in having the batteries interchangeable, but it appears to me that the Vacbobs are carrying M2 fusion pistols -- but those were synthesized by the S'pht. IIRC, the fusion pistol in M1 was blue and black and generally an ugly piece of crap. They're also shooting the same bolts that the Cronus does, but the M1 fusion pistol wasn't nearly that fast or effective. In fact, in M1A1 at least, things like Hunters aren't even weak against fusion!

I'm on "A Friend In Need" right now so I can get a good look at Vacbobs when I start playing again, if you want.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 13th '10, 20:40

Lh wrote:The goal of Sleep when you start out on the higher end of the map is to always make your way to the lower end where the 'well' is. That flashing item only comes into play at the end of the game.

Also, those beacons do lead the way... up the mountain, to where you started. The dream versions of this map have you going "backwards", a concession to how hard the jumping puzzle is. In a much older version, you had to climb up the mountain from the well at the bottom to that door at the top on five different occasions. Enough people found the jumping puzzle extremely difficult that we switched it to be straight downhill on the first four versions. The downhill version of this is actually remarkable straightforward: drop down and follow the water. No jumping required, just a straight downhill run to the end.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
Director of the Xeventh Project, the team behind Eternal
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
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Pfhorrest
California

Post May 13th '10, 20:55

Also:

MoppyPuppy wrote:


I almost LOL'd at work and got caught reading this :-D
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
Director of the Xeventh Project, the team behind Eternal
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
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Pfhorrest
California

Post May 13th '10, 21:08

A Friend in Need
[attachment=3744:AFriendInNeed_0001.png]

I like this level quite a lot. It's thoughtfully designed both in terms of layout and how it works from a gameplay standpoint.

This level adheres to a philosophy I mentioned a little bit ago, about how each level is an "area" and your design should reflect that; in this one, it's some kind of facility which includes four bulk teleporters that you need to power back up. The facility is protected by sniper towers and a huge door that you have to open, and as you fight along the upper areas with the teleporters, you are treated to more complete views of the facility overall. It's very smartly designed, and you can tell that each room is consciously linked to other rooms. Architecturally, the level is generally great, and the combat is fantastic. And it even has an intelligent role in the story, as you get reacquainted with Blake's forces and Leela.

In fact, if I were to complain in general, it would mostly be nitpicky stuff, because there are no significant faults with this level in any aspect. But I'll discuss the little things now, in pictures:

[attachment=3745:AFriendInNeed_0000.png]
TI STAIRS STRIKE AGAIN! That's the beginning of the level and, for the first half of it or so, the only recharger and save. Plus, if you miss the uplink chip up there, you have to go back up there anyway. In a scenario that's normally strong on its lighting, this is in bad form. Also, the "broken wall" thing doesn't work whatsoever with the texture set. I think just normal stairs would have been fine.

[attachment=3746:AFriendInNeed_0002.png]
This Juggernaut never activated; I just stood there and pelted it with dual Fusion for a few minutes.

[attachment=3747:AFriendInNeed_0003.png]
I walked by this switch five or six times. It's really difficult to see, and I think it's the homogeneous color palette biting the game in the butt. Like I mentioned a while ago, while each texture set has five or six different color sets therein, each texture of a given color is basically the same color. So all the purples are the same purple -- no lavender, no magenta, no indigo, just purple, which gives the scenario in general and this set in particular the feeling that it's all monochromatic when it really isn't. It's also starting to wear on me personally, because it's all so bland when it really shouldn't be. Especially since, on TC, half of the monsters are purple anyway, and they're the same purple as the walls.

Anyway, this is all minor stuff for the most part. This is an excellent level that's fun to play and really intelligently designed. It's always nice to see a really thoughtful map like this one.

As an aside: you get the Ouranos fusion cannon on this level, which functionally is pretty similar to the Rubicon fusion rifle. It appears to me to be superior in every way to the fusion pistol; I think it does more damage per battery? Maybe I'm imagining things, but it seems like this completely supplants the Cronos as far as fusion damage is concerned, which is unfortunate because I really like the dual Cronos a lot better.

Level design: 5/5
Architecture: 4.5/5
Combat: 5/5
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 13th '10, 21:30

Unlucky for Some
[attachment=3748:UnluckyF...ome_0001.png]

Here's a level that should be awesome, but isn't. Leela's combined forces are assaulting this Pfhor-controlled city, and you need to lead the assault and lower the shields so that Leela can introduce them to the wonders of orbital bombardment. Now, by the description, this should be an epic fuckin' level, with some huge battles as you and the Bobs and S'pht wage war on an army of Pfhor.

And somewhere, I think that's happening -- but without you. You spend most of your time wandering through really huge towers around the periphery of the shield generator until you make your way in and destroy it. It's an extremely linear level, which is fine, but the biggest problem is that the level is extremely, extremely easy. It's so easy that it has the same problem TI had: it works against the urgency of the plot. Pretty much all you fight on this level are Fighters, even though we're 10ish levels in (depending on if you failed Sakhmet Rising) and we should be well beyond Fighters by now. There are Juggernauts and big battles, but you have no part in those.

So really, this level is just boring. And it has the same problem some of the Marathon levels had: these textures are not really suitable for massive-scale architecture. In my experience, very, very few textures in any set are good for massive-scale architecture; they're just too small and repeat too often. In this case, the ubiquitous fog and general darkness helps kind of obscure the problem, but it just has the opposite effect of putting all of this war and city out of focus, which diminishes the scope of the level.

I understand why the player is put inside these buildings while your allies wage war outside: it's a lot more controllable and practical from a design standpoint, and when your game isn't really about huge battles, you don't want to just plop one in in the middle of your level. So that's fine, but the problem is what you do fight is so underwhelming and easy that the level's plain boring. Too much of the level is devoted to pressing multiple switches not guarded by enemies -- as in, you press a switch, it opens a nearby door with another switch, and so forth. There is no reason at all from a design standpoint to not just have one switch unless you plan on having some kind of challenge in the meantime, so really I feel like I'm wasting time.

One quirk: to get from tower to tower, you get launched by goo cannons. I'm not at all against them in principle, but in execution they're way too powerful and glue you to the opposite wall for several seconds. In fact, at one point I ended up flying through the open door of the last building, past several enemies inside, and glued to a corner at the far end of the building. It's extremely disorienting and breaks immersion when your gimmicks don't work right.

Overall, a very underwhelming level coming off of the last one.

Level design: 2.5/5
Architecture: 2.5/5
Combat: 2/5
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 14th '10, 07:49

Treellama wrote:Of course, now it's possible to have any liquid(s) you want in any set(s) :)
The element is <damage_kicks>. For each damage type, you can set the base kickback, how much to multiply damage for additional kickback, and whether there is a vertical component. Electrical staff has an already-high default multiplier of three, and then gets that additional massive boost from damage when you are running since it's melee.

This was enormously helpful. I set the multiplier to one and it is so much better now.

Also, I realized while testing that that the build of Omega I have here looks a good bit different from the version Ryoko is testing, texture-wise. I didn't think I had changed things that much, but it's a notable improvement.

CryoS, render out those weapons already so I can release this! You've got the models done, can't you just render a batch overnight?

Also, on a related note: anyone out there who can script up a floating HUD? I've had the graphics for one done forever but never had the time to figure out how to script one, and it's not looking like I will any time soon.
Last edited by Pfhorrest on May 14th '10, 09:58, edited 1 time in total.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
Director of the Xeventh Project, the team behind Eternal
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
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Pfhorrest
California

Post May 14th '10, 09:04

Pfhorrest wrote:This was enormously helpful. I set the multiplier to one and it is so much better now.

Also, I realized while testing that that the build of Omega I have here looks a good bit different from the version Ryoko is testing, texture-wise. I didn't think I had changed things that much, but it's a notable improvement.

CryoS, render out those weapons already so I can release this! You've done the models done, can't you just render a batch overnight?

Also, on a related note: anyone out there who can script up a floating HUD? I've had the graphics for one done forever but never had the time to figure out how to script one, and it's not looking like I will any time soon.


Uh, you sure your posting in the right topic? lol.

Anyways, decided to download and play Enternal X due to this topic, and I found this:




I'm like the master in running into broken walls like this.

EDIT: And on an completely unrelated note, do you plan on commenting on Marathon, Durandal, and Evil Ryoko? I'd love to see your opinion on their levels.
Last edited by Miak on May 14th '10, 09:09, edited 1 time in total.
Miak
California

Post May 14th '10, 09:57

Miak wrote:Uh, you sure your posting in the right topic? lol.

It's a topic about Eternal. I'm the (main) guy behind Eternal, talking about upcoming improvements to Eternal. Can't get much more on-topic than that.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
Director of the Xeventh Project, the team behind Eternal
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
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Pfhorrest
California

Post May 14th '10, 11:22

Also, I realized while testing that that the build of Omega I have here looks a good bit different from the version Ryoko is testing, texture-wise. I didn't think I had changed things that much, but it's a notable improvement.


I've got the hi-res textures turned off because my graphics card is bad and it causes noticeable lag as it loads each texture. I didn't notice a huge difference overall though.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 14th '10, 12:49

Pfhorrest wrote:This was enormously helpful. I set the multiplier to one and it is so much better now.

That will affect the kickback when the fighters use them too, though. You might want to use two different damage types; one with a high kickback for low damage fighters, and one with low kickback for the high damage cyborg.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post May 14th '10, 14:09

Pfhorrest wrote:CryoS, render out those weapons already so I can release this! You've got the models done, can't you just render a batch overnight?

Fine i'll get right too it. though will have a bit of a problem mkaing good looking muzzle flashes. oh the wells.
By the way, did you ever implement the pistol/rifle?
Last edited by CryoS on May 14th '10, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.
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CryoS
The Dungeon

Post May 14th '10, 14:59

there we go, they're done, jsut log in and ill hand them over.
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CryoS
The Dungeon

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