something about squadron...

The best of the Pfhorums.

Post Jan 12th '07, 16:08

Shongshong, I hope you realise this harsh critic, is unreal. These ppl are reacting emotionally. And if there's one thing you can trust in this world, it's that emotions aren't trustable. Sure you violate laws, but it's not like you'll get caught. It's on such a small scale.

I've used music in yotasaga, and content from other games. It's been 3-4 years. Nothing happened.

Be rational, and think about the whole situation. It's a joke.
Last edited by goran on Jan 12th '07, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
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goran

Post Jan 12th '07, 16:14

It's still wrong. Just because you think it's an honor for people to use your stuff without credit doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean most people appreciate that. I know I sure don't. Sure, if someone rips me off, obviously he thinks my stuff is of a high enough quality that it's worth doing, but on the flip side, now he's getting the credit and acknowledgment that I deserve. I'm the one who put hard work into it, so I should get the credit.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jan 12th '07, 16:31

goran wrote:Shongshong, I hope you realise this harsh critic, is unreal. These ppl are reacting emotionally. And if there's one thing you can trust in this world, it's that emotions aren't trustable. Sure you violate laws, but it's not like you'll get caught. It's on such a small scale.

I've used music in yotasaga, and content from other games. It's been 3-4 years. Nothing happened.

Be rational, and think about the whole situation. It's a joke.


Obviously, you're being retarded. I don't give a crap if it's small scale. Just cause you won't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok. Rules are rules. You don't bend them if they're small. If I make my living by making music, and somebody just let's lots of people download it instead of buying it, that would be pretty madening, right? I can deal with stealing from another game, I mean, it's not that big a deal. But music? That's pushing it. So Goran, maybe you should think about it a little before chastising others.
Mordekai

Post Jan 12th '07, 17:05

Let me think about the last thing you said. Professional music:

The real threat to musicians is bigscale filesharing, such as bittorrent and limewire.
A file on fileball typically gets around 100-200 downloads
The download speed is SLOW
These 200 ppl doesn't automatically share the same taste in music as the author, and would most likely never have heard of the music if it wasn't for the scenario.
Those who like the music, will seek up more tracks from the real author. (most likely using a filesharing program)

This is a qoute I read some years ago.

Rules are for stupid people, the rest of us use sound reason
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goran

Post Jan 12th '07, 17:20

goran wrote:The real threat to musicians is bigscale filesharing, such as bittorrent and limewire.


As a professional musician, I have to disagree with this.

The real threat to musicians is venues that don't think they need to pay musicians who play there, touring agents who like to take advantage of performers, and the like.
Filesharing is not the point here.

When I downloaded the "Squadron Soundtrack" file, I was under the impression that it was music that shongshong had written, or at least had friends write. When I got to "Take Five" by Paul Desmond (an obvious one, for me), I suddenly realized this was not true.
So let's just go with the simple rule he's broken: Fileball doesn't allow you to upload other people's work. He basically made a compilation album of things he doesn't own, and posted it to Fileball. If you think that Fileballs rules should bend to "sound reason", then you should talk to tBC about that.
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kineticturtle

Post Jan 12th '07, 18:15

Since we do disagree, and no one of us will change. We can leave it here. Shongshong have both sides, and can make his own choice.
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goran

Post Jan 12th '07, 19:09

You act as if this is merely a matter of opinion, as opposed to something that is part of our society, something that is codified in the laws of all modern civilized governments as well as the TOS of Fileball. You claim to be speaking from reason but your strongest argument is to misconstrue the reasons this is so odious to us (shongshong's actions aren't a threat to anything; nobody is arguing that. It's his, and your, cavalier attitude towards the hard work of others that is the threat), or to simply call the whole thing "a joke," as if that is somehow going to win your point or stop any discussion on the subject.

You continue by implying you believe an absurd notion which runs counter to the ideals of modern societies and states--namely, that rules don't apply to everyone equally.

Perhaps you, and whoever made up that ridiculous quote, were somehow born before Rousseau, and traveled to this time in a time machine. Or, more likely, you're confusing sound reason with simple ignorance of the world in which you live.

To cap it all off, you finish by arguing that nothing will change, and that the discussion should end just because you say so. Well, there are obviously some of us who feel we need to educate some people who apparently missed, by fault of either parents or schools, some basic concepts about the obligations and privileges that come with living with others.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jan 12th '07, 21:11

I know Morganas revenge used grunt sounds from the peon orcs in Blizards warcraft 2, for the sound of the cavemen. For all i know he could have got that legitamently.
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herecomethej2000
Ledyard, CT

Post Jan 13th '07, 00:03

Mordekai wrote:No. Is it legal to burn copyrighted cds and give them to people? Or to let them download it online? No. It isn't. Yes, I know, it's done all the time, but a work like Squadron should have more taste than that.

I was using AnimeMusicVideos.org as an example because people will upload music videos using copyrighted anime and music but they give proper credit and they don't make money off of it.
The Pf'hak - Read it.
Science technology jargon physics.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Jan 13th '07, 02:46

As I said Im off from this thread. I've already given my opinion to shongshoong. If you want to continue to argue with me, I give up. You win. Live on happily. I have more imortant things to do.
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goran

Post Jan 13th '07, 22:20

Firstly I want to say Mordekai is right about the music and it should be removed from fireball. Secondly Mordekai you can hardly consider taking a few textures and possibly one or two generic sounds from 1 comercial game and putting them into a freeware game a copright violation, considering 1 it is freeware and thus no profit is made and 2 people take textures pictures and sounds from comercial games and use them for avatars images and backgrounds which not only do the corperations ignore but they will actually encourage it. What I am trying to say here is shongshong taking textures from half-life and a few other games is hardly a copyright violation since the textures so log as they are generic can hardly fall under copyright protection as by defenition you cannot copyright a generic element only a unique element. And finally Treellama I do have a certain respect for you but you really need to take a closer look at some of the other major scenarios, at least shongshong admits he took material.
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hexcorsist

Post Jan 13th '07, 22:40

If you want to continue to argue with me, I give up. You win. Live on happily. I have more imortant things to do.



This should best be answered with a quote; NEVER STOP FIGHTING TILL THE FIGHT IS DONE-The Untouchables
John Drake
The world's retirement home. (Florida)

Post Jan 13th '07, 23:04

I clearly said that I don't have that big deal with him using some stuff from Half-Life. It's probably technically illegal, so I still think he shouldn't have. It's probably not going to hurt anybody, but still, laws are laws. The music, in my opinion, is the biggest deal. It's so wrong, but yet they defend it. It's absolutely brainless. So if I break into a store and steal a really cheap CD, that's ok? Just because it's small, doesn't mean it's ok. Goran, if you did have some common sense, you would understand what we were saying. But obviously you ignore it, so I'll put this into a nice wording, screw you. You're an idiot.
Mordekai

Post Jan 13th '07, 23:21

hexcorsist wrote:And finally Treellama I do have a certain respect for you but you really need to take a closer look at some of the other major scenarios, at least shongshong admits he took material.

I don't actually need to do that, since I'm not defending any other major scenarios. If they did it, it doesn't make it any less wrong here.

As for your claims about textures being too generic to be copyrightable, or copyright violation not occurring when something is given away instead of being sold, you need to go read up on how copyright works. You're wrong on both counts.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jan 13th '07, 23:41

I permanently left the community because of that kind of shits from Shadowbreaker and guess what? I have to return again to defend my 5 fucking reals old creation. So here goes::

Credits were given everywhere for everyone:

1-Todd Proctor made a shitload of jjaro textures. It's in the credit screen.
2-I got Borzz and James Hasting Trew comments on the textures, everything is fine with that.
3-The weapons weren't all made by me, once again, credits were given to everyone.


Peoples take someone hard work ( I spent countless sleepless nights to make Sigma ) and you bash it all the time to pimp your own Shadow scenario. This community can be godamn narrow minded at time. And Shongshong, congrat on Squadron, it's nice, it's fun, it's straight to the point.
FullDiaper

Post Jan 13th '07, 23:47

FullDiaper wrote:This community can be godamn narrow minded at time. And Shongshong, congrat on Squadron, it's nice, it's fun, it's straight to the point.

I noticed he's really the only one other than goran to congratulate shong on his hard work...
The Pf'hak - Read it.
Science technology jargon physics.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:09

treellama this is a direct quote form copyright.gov

'Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U. S. Code) to the authors of â??original works of authorship,â?
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hexcorsist

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:35

Two more clicks and you would have had it!

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp

...
5. pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
...
These categories should be viewed broadly. For example, computer programs and most â??compilationsâ?
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:37

umm treellame i was there that's where the quote is from what are you trying to say?

These are generic textures

and computer programs do not fall under litery copyright they fall under an SLA and intelectual property laws
Last edited by hexcorsist on Jan 14th '07, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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hexcorsist

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:41

I am trying to say that it specifically lists pictorial works of originality--i.e. textures. The things you said aren't copyrightable, are listed there, on the US government's page of what is copyrightable, as being copyrightable. Is this now clear enough?
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:43

these are basic generic textures similar to those found in other games and thus are not original thus do not fall under copyright protection clear enough for you now?
Last edited by hexcorsist on Jan 14th '07, 00:44, edited 1 time in total.
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hexcorsist

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:48

[quote]Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.â€
Last edited by Zott on Jan 14th '07, 00:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Zott
Earth

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:52

no because to be applicable for a copyright it must be by definition original not generic

ohh and treellama I said generic textures (i.e. textures that are commonplace) do not apply for copyright not all textures
Last edited by hexcorsist on Jan 14th '07, 00:54, edited 1 time in total.
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hexcorsist

Post Jan 14th '07, 00:56

original as per the dictionary , "completely new, and so not copied or derived from something else"

and i don't think anybody will beleive that these texture are "so not copied or derived from something else"
Last edited by hexcorsist on Jan 14th '07, 00:58, edited 1 time in total.
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hexcorsist

Post Jan 14th '07, 01:01

a movie based on a book falls under the copyright of the book and is used under permision of that copyright, a book based on a true event must change names places and either not say what true event it was based on or have permision from the major parties involved (otherwise they are open to lawsuits where I am at the moment, exception is made to those people in the pupbic eye)
Last edited by hexcorsist on Jan 14th '07, 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
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hexcorsist

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