Marathon Ladder

[xyfbzi]

Okay I am starting a marathon ladder.
Here's how it works:
If you want to move up, challenge someone who is 3 or less spots above you in the ladder. Then you play them in a one on one battle. If you win, you switch places in the ladder. If you lose, you stay in the same place. If they don't play you in 2 weeks, you win by default. When you join, you will go to the bottom. Post challenges, times for games and results of games in here; i will edit this post to contain an up-to-date ladder.

THE LADDER:

1.Xyfbzi
2.hangarninetysix
3. Tranquility

Current Permitted Maps:
Quick Six
Underworld
Stair Fortress
Victory Dance (1.0)
Goran's Netpack
Red Spectrum
Coriolis Loop

[Zott]

Ooh, I suggested this in a multiplayer match, I'm glad something heard me.


Anyways, I'm game, sign me up.


I'm usually only available on weekends though. Times I play on weekends vary, but don't expect anything before 12:00PM PDT and anything after 3:00 AM PDT.

[xyfbzi]

i didn't hear you, i got the idea from a chess ladder my dad implemented for the school chess club.

[hangarninetysix]

I'll join.

[Shadowbreaker]

No ladders. People play Marathon for fun. It'd just make it more competetive and no one would dare play those more experienced.

[LegacyTyphoon]

Then just don't join the ladder, simple as that.

[Zott]

How are maps and settings going to be chosen?

There should be a guideline for picking those things. What to do during disputes, etc.

[xyfbzi]

Random people in the metaserver room?
Perhaps a list of good maps, chosen by experienced players.

[Sam Lowry]

Ladder is the path of the dark side. Loss leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to quitting.

[hangarninetysix]

Post replays in event of dispute would be my suggestion.

Shadowbreaker: Why not? Playing better players makes you better, in the area of tactics if not reflexes.

[RyokoTK]

Random people in the metaserver room?
Perhaps a list of good maps, chosen by experienced players.

That's a fantastic idea. If only people ever listened to me when I chose maps, we wouldn't be playing dickloaf maps all the time.

Ha! Yeah, like that'll ever happen.

Summary: terrible idea, since most people have such low standards and will try to foist their own homebrew maps for competitive battles, since only some people have the ability to host, and there's this idea that if you're not hosting, you don't have the right to bitch about crappy maps.

[Shadowbreaker]

Treellama doesnt want it, and KawaiiPet doubts it can be done. Too bad.

[xyfbzi]

um... i started this because it was suggested in the story forums. Story forum user's opinions > pfhorums users opinion's.
kawaiipet also thinks the AIM room was bad.
The people in positions 1 - 5 would vote on the maps.
So being the top person in the ladder, I pick thrud.

[RyokoTK]

This topic just went from abysmal to dog shit.

[LegacyTyphoon]

What if you just set it up so that ladder games always had to use certain maps? If you had the "top-tier" people voting on which maps to use, then like Ryoko pointed out, they'll always try to choose the maps their good at. Choose a couple map-packs off of Fileball.net that have been given high ratings and good reviews and only allow those maps to be used. If you really wanted to make it harder for players to choose maps, have the host (who's only an observer right?) choose the map.

Personally I suggest Red Spectrum 1.6, the standard Marathon maps, and Coriolis Loop.

[Zott]

Since apparently there is difficulty in getting hosts, I suggest the following.

There would be no formal challenges to the forum, etc. Instead if two people wish to do battle for ladder credit, they either make a game (Or if they cannot, join an existing game). Battle it out, and save the replay and upload to the forum. (It doesn't exactly, have to be be between two ladder people.)

Their rank would be based on the total number of kills achieved in the battle. Though people who play Marathon more often would obviously have more kills and replays, I suggest a best replay per day to be uploaded to be tabulated for kills, all other matches for that day do not count.

[I was going to say something, such as only kills inflicted on the two challengers count, but why shouldn't the nonladder people not have their power in deciding vidmasters. ]

So for example:

I play 5 people in a deathmatch, (Maps do not matter, but if someone have 100s of replays on the same map, there should be a deduction...) and killed 25, died 19 times, suicide. Subtract and add to total score

So my score would be
{Rank#} {Player Name} ~ {Total Kills} < {Latest Match: {Score} {Map} {Date}>
EX: #3 Zott ~ 9 < +6, Route 66 9/12/06>

Purely an example, I didn't actually play anyone today. That would be my "best" replay for the day and the only one permitted to be submitted today. I don't know if latest match should be added to total score or if they should be added after the following match.

Seems fairly simple to me. This challenging business is kind of hard to cordinate, and so this would probably give the most accurate representation. PLus with replays, it is pretty obvious who is cheating for kills.

If one wants ot be really fancy, we could introduce a multiplier for more players. 1.0 for 2 players 1.2 for 3, 1.4 for 4 1.6 for 5, and 1.8 for 6 and 2.0 for any more than. Though I think that would get out of hand... (Though dominating with more players shows your proless)

As for time, usually scores even out so even if you play for 100 hours, the kills to death ratio should pretty much even out to an average. Otherwise, stick to between 5 to 12 minute games.

[Mordekai]

Ok, we had a very detailed discussion about this thing last night. There is no feasible way this will ever work. If you go by replays, cheating is way too easy. I could just go make a film with the name 'Xyfbzi' and play like crap on it. And then he goes down the ladder. There are so many holes, it's not even funny. You can try, but it is doomed.

[xyfbzi]

i like the map pack idea. ratings work.
i don't like the over two people idea; the ladder only measures 1 vs 1 ability.
The point of this ladder, i think, is to give people a reason to play netgames, other than to have fun. So there is a purpose to it. Maybe at the end of every month the person at the top goes into the "Ladder Hall of Fame".
People won't cheat. Because the risk is too great; if they were found out they would be regarded as scum by the marathon community and would rarely be permitted to play.

[treellama]

The point of this ladder, i think, is to give people a reason to play netgames, other than to have fun.

Just like the point of alcoholism is to give you a reason to drink other than for the taste and social aspects of it?

[LegacyTyphoon]

I think the main thing people are forgetting is that:
A) we don't have that many players as it is, and we're all pretty honest here anyway right?
It's not some hard-ass contest from what I understand.
C) You can still have fun and have a friendly competition right?

However, I don't think I'd play netgames if I didn't enjoy them.

[RyokoTK]

Just wondering, what makes Victory Dance 1 and Stair Fortress more viable for ladder games than, say, good netmaps, like Red Spectrum?

Anyway, people won't cheat because they'll be looked at as scum? Are you kidding? Everyone is an asshole already, people would cheat all the time.

[Bobwithkeycard]

Are you kidding? Everyone is an asshole already, people would cheat all the time.

I guess that you feel like that explains to a certain degree the general attitude you seem to have towards everyone.

Anyways, good luck with your ladder, xy.

[RyokoTK]

I merely reciprocate the attitude.

[Shadowbreaker]

Uh...

Ok, so tell us, if neither dev wants to do it, how are you going to?

[LegacyTyphoon]

Just because the devs don't want to do it doesn't mean he can't put it in action.