Hello, new to Marathon.
I am confused a bit. There exist engine and game data. Right?
I have seen so far 4 different Marathon 2 data files on internet.
from bungie page: 25.9 mb, 28.9 mb
from aleph one page: 79.4 mb
from aleph one github: 79.2 mb
What is going on? Where can I download vanilla/original Marathon 2 data file(s) ?
marathon 2 data files (vanilla/original)
The first link in http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org/ is what you’re looking for. The SDL version is converted to work on Windows boxes, and the ones on the A1 pages have a bunch of HD graphics that weren’t in the original. (I think one of the latter is also converted to run as a standalone app, while the other just has data files). Note, though, that unless you’ve got a Mac running OS 9 or earlier, or an emulator that can run the aforementioned, the original files probably won’t be of much use to you. The terminal images won’t work, for starters.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)
“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”
“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit
Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”
“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit
Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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roboticmehdi
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For data files, does OS matter ? I thought it didn't.
Then where to download ogirinal/vanilla windows marathon 2 data files ?
Then where to download ogirinal/vanilla windows marathon 2 data files ?
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ravenshining
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It does matter, because these games were originally written for System 7, which supported data structures modern OSes don't called resource forks, which contain important things like sound and graphics and will disappear if you try to extract them on a modern filesystem.
The 79 MB versions you are seeing probably have textures and stuff from the XBLA release. The walls and scenery are OK, but definitely turn off the faux-HD monsters and weapons if you use this.
For the originals, go to http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org . There you will still find four different Marathon 2's:
• The original Mac version (28.8 MB or separate files), which you don't want unless you're running the original executable in an emluator.
• The SDL version (28.9 MB), which is the above files converted to work with Aleph One
• I don't know what the 25.9 MB unimap is all about
• The original Windows version (87 MB complete or 7 MB for just the Map file), which has some minor differences since it was released a few months later, and not just to Waterloo Waterpark as the text says. Mostly minor improvements, but some people don't like how they replaced the alien teleporter on level three with an explorable roof over the building.
The 79 MB versions you are seeing probably have textures and stuff from the XBLA release. The walls and scenery are OK, but definitely turn off the faux-HD monsters and weapons if you use this.
For the originals, go to http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org . There you will still find four different Marathon 2's:
• The original Mac version (28.8 MB or separate files), which you don't want unless you're running the original executable in an emluator.
• The SDL version (28.9 MB), which is the above files converted to work with Aleph One
• I don't know what the 25.9 MB unimap is all about
• The original Windows version (87 MB complete or 7 MB for just the Map file), which has some minor differences since it was released a few months later, and not just to Waterloo Waterpark as the text says. Mostly minor improvements, but some people don't like how they replaced the alien teleporter on level three with an explorable roof over the building.
Last edited by ravenshining on Sep 9th '18, 18:20, edited 1 time in total.
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roboticmehdi
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The 87 mb marathon 2iso (original) is corrupt? it does not work on my computer. I cant mount it AND cant burn it.
No idea when it comes to mounting ISOs. I may actually still have an original CD-ROM of M2 for Windows somewhere. I'll look later. If I can find it, I'll upload the data files, though I highly doubt the original application will still run on modern versions of Windows. Even if it does run, it would pretty much only run M2. Nearly every scenario people might possibly care about was built for Infinity, Aleph One, or the original Marathon; the only exception I can think of is the remake of Devil in a Blue Dress. (Origin of Species started out M2 when it was being released in serialised form, but the completed version ran in Infinity.)
To add to what Lia said, you're going to be getting the same data in all the modern versions as you got in the SDL conversions; the modern files just have added graphics and other add-ons. If you want to replicate the experience of the original game and already have the new version downloaded, just go into plugins and disable everything; then go into graphics and turn off OpenGL. It still won't function completely properly, because of the bug involving the game freezing after fifteen levels in a row without a death, but unless you're speedrunning the game, that probably won't be a concern.
Note that if you get the Windows 95 version, films from the Vidmaster page and various other sites won't work. I've already got probably around half of them on my YouTube page, though, and a lot of the ones that aren't on mine are on the older YouTube page.
Maybe I should vid the Win95 levels I'm capable of vidding, just because I don't know if anyone else has. (No chance for "For Carnage, Apply Within", at least not yet, but I'm fairly sure I've already gotten the Mac versions of all the other changed levels except "What About Bob?", though I can't remember for sure what the seven levels with changes were. I think it was the first six and "For Carnage".)
To add to what Lia said, you're going to be getting the same data in all the modern versions as you got in the SDL conversions; the modern files just have added graphics and other add-ons. If you want to replicate the experience of the original game and already have the new version downloaded, just go into plugins and disable everything; then go into graphics and turn off OpenGL. It still won't function completely properly, because of the bug involving the game freezing after fifteen levels in a row without a death, but unless you're speedrunning the game, that probably won't be a concern.
Note that if you get the Windows 95 version, films from the Vidmaster page and various other sites won't work. I've already got probably around half of them on my YouTube page, though, and a lot of the ones that aren't on mine are on the older YouTube page.
Maybe I should vid the Win95 levels I'm capable of vidding, just because I don't know if anyone else has. (No chance for "For Carnage, Apply Within", at least not yet, but I'm fairly sure I've already gotten the Mac versions of all the other changed levels except "What About Bob?", though I can't remember for sure what the seven levels with changes were. I think it was the first six and "For Carnage".)
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)
“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”
“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit
Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”
“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit
Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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roboticmehdi
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Oh, it turns out windows 10 has problem with some older iso images, it simply will not mount them and give the "corrupt iso image file" error. I mounted it on my old windows 7 machine and it worked perfectly.
Off topic, but seriosly, windows 10 is the worst operating system ever, in my opinion, not only because of this, but also because of a lot other things related to it.
Off topic, but seriosly, windows 10 is the worst operating system ever, in my opinion, not only because of this, but also because of a lot other things related to it.
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roboticmehdi
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Why doesn't Aleph One work with vanilla/original Marathon 2 Windows data ?
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ravenshining
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- Location: Hawai'i
Hm, they're working for me. What type of problem are you having, is there an error message? How is your Aleph One folder structure set up?
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roboticmehdi
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- Joined: Sep 9th '18, 16:47
I installed Marathon 2 from original windows marathon 2 iso (provided on trilogyrelease page, 87). I run it's native executable on my old windows 7 computer and it worked. But it won't work on my windows 10 computer because it is too old. So, I downloaded Aleph One engine and put it's internals to marathon 2 folder. It gives error: "Please be sure the files 'Map', 'Shapes', 'Images' and 'Sounds' are correctly installed and try again. (error -1)"
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roboticmehdi
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- Joined: Sep 9th '18, 16:47
I think I solved the problem. I renamed original data files so that they don't have extensions, for example "Map.sce2" became "Map", etc... That way it worked. Huh, finally I have original windows marathon 2 cd files running with Aleph One. I am coming from Doom and Duke Nukem 3D world, never seen so many data file versions for a game. With marathon 2 you got 3 different data files on trilogyrelease page (25.9mb, 28.9mb, original cd iso), also you got the one on Aleph One page.
I can understand that the data files on Aleph One page have high resolutin textures and stuff.
Why does trilogy page has so many different data files ?
I can understand that the data files on Aleph One page have high resolutin textures and stuff.
Why does trilogy page has so many different data files ?
Aleph One is set up to, by default, load the files without extensions, because it's based on the source code Bungie released, which was for the Mac version of Marathon 2. To run the Windows 95 files, as you discovered, you either need to remove the extensions, or add a little bit of MML telling the engine what the file names are.
Some different versions, explained:
1. The original Mac files, in a format only old Macs can read
2. The original Mac files, in a zip file with the resource forks re-encoded so Windows/Linux/newer Macs can read them
3. The original Mac files, in a slightly different zip file that is easier to install.
4. The Windows 95 CD, which came out a year after the Mac version, and has slightly different maps(!)
5. The Aleph One games ship with high resolution textures and other stuff because reasons.
For Doom or Duke Nukem, since they started out on Windows, the files are already in a format that can be used by everybody. So that's simpler.
The trilogy release page is a little confusing, but that is a page we (the Aleph One developers) do not control.
Some different versions, explained:
1. The original Mac files, in a format only old Macs can read
2. The original Mac files, in a zip file with the resource forks re-encoded so Windows/Linux/newer Macs can read them
3. The original Mac files, in a slightly different zip file that is easier to install.
4. The Windows 95 CD, which came out a year after the Mac version, and has slightly different maps(!)
5. The Aleph One games ship with high resolution textures and other stuff because reasons.
For Doom or Duke Nukem, since they started out on Windows, the files are already in a format that can be used by everybody. So that's simpler.
The trilogy release page is a little confusing, but that is a page we (the Aleph One developers) do not control.