It's obvious someone tried this. Tried to make a moving, directional entity like an alien into full 3D must have been done before. I know very little about Aleph One 3D but I can imagine how it would be like. An .obj file for each frame like it was a Quake 1 model with each frame a shape key.
I tried to make this. But I am not a 3D artist so it'll be hard to make one frame. But I want to know if someone did this and if it works. I assume so cause Project DX seemed to handle some of it with ease.
3D Models
It does work.
Your obj file (mesh) and skins replace a single sequence. You can't animate the sequence by assigning meshes to frames. There is documentation for using a different format with animations, but the tools used for that seem to be defunct. So, 3D monsters at the moment are basically fixed in any sequence.
However, the monsters still rotate and translate, although because of the way monsters move the rotation is jerky, with no interpolation. Still acceptable for something like a turret, which I did a few of. Those use the same mesh for all the non-dead sequences, and different skins with lighting and what not for indicators and weapons flash. So we're really talking about two meshes, if you include a dead monster.
The turrets work out nicely, I like them. They're still turrets, so kind of 'eh', but hey, 3D!
After that I tried to do something with a more mobile monster. Another street sweeper robot. The gimmick with this one is that it has two rotating brushes (3D scenery objects) that are handled via Lua scripting. The brushes are also static 3D objects, but you can change their facing and position in Lua, so that they spin up and look very menacing as the thing chases you down. Because of the problem with monsters instantaneously rotating, it still looks kinda bunk, sadly.
So, I did it, it works, but there are serious challenges in how you use what you can here. Here's an example from a previous MPDX iteration, an annoying robotic vacuum that kills you by exploding:
Your obj file (mesh) and skins replace a single sequence. You can't animate the sequence by assigning meshes to frames. There is documentation for using a different format with animations, but the tools used for that seem to be defunct. So, 3D monsters at the moment are basically fixed in any sequence.
However, the monsters still rotate and translate, although because of the way monsters move the rotation is jerky, with no interpolation. Still acceptable for something like a turret, which I did a few of. Those use the same mesh for all the non-dead sequences, and different skins with lighting and what not for indicators and weapons flash. So we're really talking about two meshes, if you include a dead monster.
The turrets work out nicely, I like them. They're still turrets, so kind of 'eh', but hey, 3D!
After that I tried to do something with a more mobile monster. Another street sweeper robot. The gimmick with this one is that it has two rotating brushes (3D scenery objects) that are handled via Lua scripting. The brushes are also static 3D objects, but you can change their facing and position in Lua, so that they spin up and look very menacing as the thing chases you down. Because of the problem with monsters instantaneously rotating, it still looks kinda bunk, sadly.
So, I did it, it works, but there are serious challenges in how you use what you can here. Here's an example from a previous MPDX iteration, an annoying robotic vacuum that kills you by exploding:
Why is sequences the only thing that can be 3D? Where's the documentations of this?
As for documentation, you're going to want to look at the OpenGL section of the MML doc. That goes over how this stuff gets hooked up.Screamernail wrote:Why is sequences the only thing that can be 3D? Where's the documentations of this?
As for why, I dunno? But here's a thread in which I discussed this very topic (somewhat in depth, too): http://pfhorums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=53682
Well even if I could get a Dim3 file, I could just do sequences with multiple meshes anyway and animate them with Lua scripting. (If I can learn it) It wouldn't be a-lot of sequences but it would work anyway?
Example (Or for fun if this doesn't work)
0: Idle1 (Character is in it's default pose)
1: Idle2 (Character is in a secondary idle pose that's triggered randomly)
More OPTIONAL Idle poses perhaps?
2: Move1 (Character has it's feet in separate directions(Forward, backwards))
3: Move2 (Similar to Move1 but the feet are in the reversed directions(Backwards, forward))
4: Swing (The character prepares an attack)
5: Damage (The character launches it's attack from the swing)
6: Hurt (The character get's damaged and are in a flinch pose)
7: Falling (The character falls down to the ground)
8: Corpse (The character is dead)
This might work better on low-poly models cause it would be a-lot of memory if there's high poly meshes for just 1 character. This is just an idea so you might prove me wrong. It's just for fun.
Example (Or for fun if this doesn't work)
0: Idle1 (Character is in it's default pose)
1: Idle2 (Character is in a secondary idle pose that's triggered randomly)
More OPTIONAL Idle poses perhaps?
2: Move1 (Character has it's feet in separate directions(Forward, backwards))
3: Move2 (Similar to Move1 but the feet are in the reversed directions(Backwards, forward))
4: Swing (The character prepares an attack)
5: Damage (The character launches it's attack from the swing)
6: Hurt (The character get's damaged and are in a flinch pose)
7: Falling (The character falls down to the ground)
8: Corpse (The character is dead)
This might work better on low-poly models cause it would be a-lot of memory if there's high poly meshes for just 1 character. This is just an idea so you might prove me wrong. It's just for fun.
Hmm, if you can figure out a way to do that I'd give you a medal. It sounds fun to me too.
However!.. I am not sure how you can with the way Lua is set up right now. Mind you, there are things you can do with monsters in Lua, but it does not give you direct control over the sequence displayed for a monster in the same way it would for say, a wall.
You can override the AI (sounds cooler than it is) by spamming positioning and such in the idle() and postidle(). You can make a monster attack, you can change the 'mode', and so on. You can kill the monster and respawn it, you can do a lot of stuff like that.
One hacky thought I had was to make a more 'interactive'(?) scenery object in 3D by way of using a monster with all of its sequences and hijack it with Lua. This would probably be a more interesting version of my vending machine (http://simplici7y.com/items/vending-demo) I think I also have some exploding gas cylinders that worked in a similar fashion to this somewhere. The main reason to do this is that you don't have to attend to so much house-keeping in Lua for swapping scenery objects and what-not.
I'd suggest you just start playing around with MML and Lua, there's lots of scripts out there with examples you can copy/modify to get a feel for how everything works. In fact, I've got all my newest MPDX stuff on github if you check the link in my sig. Feel free to ask questions in the MPDX thread about how any of that stuff works.
Edit: You're of course quite correct that high-poly meshes are no bueno for that precise reason. Generally speaking the idea is to model your high-poly mesh, then use that to bake a bump map that you can apply to a low-poly version of the mesh (which you actually use in-game) such that it looks closer to the high-poly mesh.
This involves studying Blender (or whichever 3D modeling program you prefer.) Google up some tutorials for that, and don't be discouraged if you aren't a 'pro' in a day, there is a lot to chew on where Blender is concerned!
However!.. I am not sure how you can with the way Lua is set up right now. Mind you, there are things you can do with monsters in Lua, but it does not give you direct control over the sequence displayed for a monster in the same way it would for say, a wall.
You can override the AI (sounds cooler than it is) by spamming positioning and such in the idle() and postidle(). You can make a monster attack, you can change the 'mode', and so on. You can kill the monster and respawn it, you can do a lot of stuff like that.
One hacky thought I had was to make a more 'interactive'(?) scenery object in 3D by way of using a monster with all of its sequences and hijack it with Lua. This would probably be a more interesting version of my vending machine (http://simplici7y.com/items/vending-demo) I think I also have some exploding gas cylinders that worked in a similar fashion to this somewhere. The main reason to do this is that you don't have to attend to so much house-keeping in Lua for swapping scenery objects and what-not.
I'd suggest you just start playing around with MML and Lua, there's lots of scripts out there with examples you can copy/modify to get a feel for how everything works. In fact, I've got all my newest MPDX stuff on github if you check the link in my sig. Feel free to ask questions in the MPDX thread about how any of that stuff works.
Edit: You're of course quite correct that high-poly meshes are no bueno for that precise reason. Generally speaking the idea is to model your high-poly mesh, then use that to bake a bump map that you can apply to a low-poly version of the mesh (which you actually use in-game) such that it looks closer to the high-poly mesh.
This involves studying Blender (or whichever 3D modeling program you prefer.) Google up some tutorials for that, and don't be discouraged if you aren't a 'pro' in a day, there is a lot to chew on where Blender is concerned!
Didn't know you can put bump-mapping on a 3D model. But I doubt that's required for what I had in plan. The test character I planed on doing has plain colors, but it might be more different than I think it is?
- Attachments
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- The test character named Xitia
Well, try modeling that character to a 3D mesh and see how it goes. There's a lot that goes into the whole thing, so I might waste your time by speaking too far in-depth at this point.Screamernail wrote:Didn't know you can put bump-mapping on a 3D model. But I doubt that's required for what I had in plan. The test character I planed on doing has plain colors, but it might be more different than I think it is?
- Progress I believe
The modelling goes decently, but I really need a new texture for her. Or if I can use multiple textures then it would be a-lot easier.
EDIT: Model's finished.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b6kibo ... sp=sharing
That's a good attitude (being more positive), and your model's looking pretty good too. 
Thanks.
Anyway.
EDIT:
You know people. Maybe I should make something more of her than just a testing character. I can lear Lua some other day(Or use the dim3 method) cause now, I actually believe I'm good at 3D.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dlzTZ ... _DG4p6qGdR Xitia's blend file. (For curious people)
Anyway.
EDIT:
You know people. Maybe I should make something more of her than just a testing character. I can lear Lua some other day(Or use the dim3 method) cause now, I actually believe I'm good at 3D.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dlzTZ ... _DG4p6qGdR Xitia's blend file. (For curious people)
You certainly seem competent enough with 3D! Hmm, maybe I didn't get that from what you were saying. My bad!Screamernail wrote:Thanks.
Anyway.
EDIT:
You know people. Maybe I should make something more of her than just a testing character. I can lear Lua some other day(Or use the dim3 method) cause now, I actually believe I'm good at 3D.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dlzTZ ... _DG4p6qGdR Xitia's blend file. (For curious people)
You've got the basic mesh, skeleton, and what appears to be an idle sequence all animated right there. Hmm, if there was some way to export everything to that old dim3 format from Blender, that would pretty much be all you'd need for animated monsters, I imagine? I found some old source code for the dim3 programs, for which I left links in the other thread I referenced earlier. Reverse engineering? If someone could write a Blender export plugin to dish out the relevant files, we'd have a way forward there.
So ya, either way you're off to a good start there, why not keep working on that character in the meanwhile? Looks promising to me.
Edit: Oh, and I just noticed the earlier screenshot with the texture. It looks quite good at this stage. I'll be quite interested to see how this turns out. On another note, your first language is Swedish, perhaps? I also noticed the filename for that screenshot. I thought your English diction seemed slightly different to me, but that would make perfect sense in such a case. Anyway, please keep up the good work!
What was that Marathon scenario that was built for the Dim3 engine?
If Dim3 can make games like that then why can't we just download it and use it for animated models? Unless you said something in that topic over there which I haven't read yet, it seems to be the only way for now.
If Dim3 can make games like that then why can't we just download it and use it for animated models? Unless you said something in that topic over there which I haven't read yet, it seems to be the only way for now.
To summarize myself from that topic over there: I did a mildly exhaustive search for it, and couldn't find any working links to the program, just some old source code. That's the problem.Screamernail wrote:What was that Marathon scenario that was built for the Dim3 engine?
If Dim3 can make games like that then why can't we just download it and use it for animated models? Unless you said something in that topic over there which I haven't read yet, it seems to be the only way for now.
I now vaguely recall using said software once upon a time, very briefly, so I'm wondering if I can find it on some old hard drives I've got floating around. We're talking quite a few years in the past though, so there is no certainty. If it's old enough, it may not even run on any machine I currently own.
Wikipedia reports the last stable release in 2014, that's at least how old it would be.
I kinda had Dim3 once on my MacBook and it weren't that old when I downloaded the program on it. So it might work. But I deleted it to get free space and now I don't remember where I got it from.