Marathon: Phoenix 1.1 development log

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Post Apr 18th '07, 02:01

Phoenix is complete! See this topic. This topic is here now to discuss the first update, 1.1. (And for historical reasons.)

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Marathon: Phoenix is an action-oriented scenario with particular stylistic emphasis on strong level design and very fast-paced gameplay, with a good level of challenge on any difficulty level without resorting to cheap tricks. What was once originally an updated re-envisioning of The Gray Incident has become almost a brand new scenario with a new plot, new weapons, and all new levels.

Phoenix has 19 levels, and comes with a full arsenal of new weapons, ranging from the reckless and messy Imperial Machine Pistol, the slow-but-powerful Fusion Cannon, and the mighty EMP Cannon.

It should be noted that there is no deadline. Between work, school (for architecture, incidentally), and other Real Life Issues, I don't always have a lot of free time or energy to work on this scenario. However, the scenario is almost done, so don't worry! It hasn't been forgotten about!

I will be uploading pictures for you to see new levels as they're produced, as evidence that the project is still going.

Attached are the images for the first level, "A Space Marine is You."

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Last edited by RyokoTK on Jul 7th '10, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 18th '07, 02:12

Yuck, it doesn't sound right, like something out of a disney movie. TO INFINITY AND BEYOND. Although TGI X sounds ok, when it is said as the gray incident X it sounds weird too. (No offence to toy story, best disney film I have seen. But the sequals. yuck.)

Also could you change the sound of the crossbow shooting to something more fitting other then a SMG firing 2 rounds. That would make it alot better as I always thought I was burning though ammo very quickly when your not. Another thing is that it explodes? maybe you could try removing that and make it pierce through multiple enemies. If this doesn't work (which it probably won't) I don't really give a shit, it was mostly the sound that put me off.

Another thing was with the spht kr, the ones that shoot homing reds, I found them harder then the yellow ones. I admit that they do throttle you with fire and enough to kill you at purple health but the red ones in numbers and by themselves kill you far easier because they shoot about 2 every few seconds making it that you can never dodge them all as they are nearly constant. But the yellow ones pump out god knows how many, dodge one and you dodge pretty much all of them. and takes a while to come back, also their health is too much considering how weak they are, run up to them and clack away on AR or Mpist and theyre gone withing minutes. far too long for something that isn't that good. Its like giving 1k live to potato anus's

I really liked this conversion as it is a good mix of story and hardcore killing and beating the crap out of any things moving. Which we all like from time to time.
Last edited by Samus on Apr 18th '07, 02:31, edited 1 time in total.
Samus

Post Apr 18th '07, 18:57

Hey i liked the accolade the most and im currently in bitch tits.
Eternal - Xmas I - Xmas II - Xmas III - Victory Dance IV - Winter I: The Venom - KTA III - Phoenix - somewhere in the heavens, waiting: The Syndicate
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Drictelt

Post Apr 18th '07, 19:06

Wow 5 months out of the oven and your already redecorating it. [MTongue]

RyokoTK wrote:I guess now's as good a time as ever to announce my new project: TGI Beyond.

TGI Beyond is much like EMR X, Rubicon X, Eternal X, etc. in that it's a revision of the original scenario as opposed to something new. The original TGI was pushed out the door without enough time to really get in everything I wanted, and without enough time to really hammer out all of the bugs. As a result, TGI was buggy as crap and some of the levels, well, just sucked.


Well TGI for starters didn't suck. Except the water levels, excepting Resident Weevils.


RyokoTK wrote:New Weapons[/b]
The pistols will be completely removed, and replaced with a new, very powerful melee weapon. The fusion pistol will be updated, and the SPNKR will reprise its role in multiplayer exclusively (since the EMP sucks).


I cannot fathom a map by you that the simple infinity fusion pistol isnt used. A new kind of pistol repalcemnt will be interesting, and yes, please get rid of that EMP scat, it couldnt even toast the player in one shot sometimes.

RyokoTK wrote:Other Stuff
but I may (may) add in some secret levels.


Thats something I've gotta see.




Now in my opinion if you are going to do sometihng like this, it has to be remarkably different. Just changing some weapons and some maps isnt remarkable... now what IS remarkable is making your own high res texture set, and all the other high res accoutrements thereof. It helps a lot to have both a photoshopper and mapper in one scenario leader.
Last edited by Shadowbreaker on Apr 18th '07, 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Apr 18th '07, 20:01

Thank goodness for allied Defenders!

I'm in complete support of this project, except for one thing. What I wouldn't like to see is high-res textures. TGI's textures are high-res enough for me, and any higher, things would take forever to load.
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Lugas

Post Apr 18th '07, 20:02

Shadowbreaker wrote:Now in my opinion if you are going to do sometihng like this, it has to be remarkably different. Just changing some weapons and some maps isnt remarkable... now what IS remarkable is making your own high res texture set, and all the other high res accoutrements thereof.

Why fix was ain't broke?
The Pf'hak - Read it.
Science technology jargon physics.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Apr 18th '07, 20:07

You can't fix something that isn't broken, But i agree that the emp should do more damage and then there would be no use to to put the spnkr back in, also 8 ammo in single and 4 in multi? wtf
Samus

Post Apr 18th '07, 21:32

Wow 5 months out of the oven and your already redecorating it. 4.png
Closer to 8, I think. And the original wasn't "finished" anyway; I always wanted to have a second shot.

Well TGI for starters didn't suck. Except the water levels, excepting Resident Weevils.


I think you were a fan of Golden Dawn, which is a water level. I will agree however that Desert of Set and Hallowed Be Thy Name were pretty crappy, which is why they're being replaced.

I cannot fathom a map by you that the simple infinity fusion pistol isnt used. A new kind of pistol repalcemnt will be interesting, and yes, please get rid of that EMP scat, it couldnt even toast the player in one shot sometimes.
The pistol replacement will be functionally similar to the original. We're not talking Rubicon Fusion Rifle from God, here. Something closer to the Sigma Fusion Cannon. As for the EMP, well, in single player it's a great tool, and I stand by that. If you disagree, try playing on TC. It really helps. The problem is, originally in multiplayer the EMP did kill in one shot, and it was just too good.

Now in my opinion if you are going to do sometihng like this, it has to be remarkably different. Just changing some weapons and some maps isnt remarkable... now what IS remarkable is making your own high res texture set, and all the other high res accoutrements thereof.


Why? As far as I'm concerned, the textures look good enough already. They don't need hi-res to look much better unless you're right next to the texture, in which case I don't care enough. Also, I want the download size to stay fairly small. TGI as it stands is around 40mb. Rubicon is several hundred MB, and in my opinion, it doesn't look that much better. Even Tempus's hi-res versions didn't add that much to the experience to me.

You can't fix something that isn't broken, But i agree that the emp should do more damage and then there would be no use to to put the spnkr back in, also 8 ammo in single and 4 in multi? wtf


Beta-testing the original EMP in netplay had some very serious problems throughout. Originally, it did around 100 damage (2/3 bar) but you had 8 shots per pack, which meant you really never ran out and rarely had to stop firing. Four kills per clip? Yikes. The explosion radius was also something like 2 WU (the SPNKR and current netplay EMP is 1.5), which made it ridiculously, unfairly powerful, far beyond the SPNKR. After several changes, the current situation was the best out of the possible outcomes, but still not very good. From what I've experienced and gathered from other people, it seems that it's just not a very fun or satisfying weapon to use, and that most people would have wanted something basically like the SPNKR.

...hence, the SPNKR.

However, the reason it's not in single player is that it was too good, which brings about the EMP/Flamethrower superweapon split.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 21st '07, 17:10

Bitches don't know about my big screenshots. Here's a few images from the second level, "Nottingham Lace."
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Last edited by RyokoTK on Jul 30th '09, 05:05, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 23rd '07, 16:38

My opinion

Well, I'd say the bad thing about the old TGI was just pistol has no use regardless of being in multiplayer or not.

Since:
1. You can snipe with the crossbow.
2. Compared to other weapon it sucks (Fusion included)
3. Compared to other weapon that deal more damage per shot, it fires slower.
4. It needed a change. I won't even touch it even if it fires 2x faster, do 2x more damage and had 2x more clips.
5. Compared to Fusion, which can do more damage to mechanial (Warcraft III word included), have more clips and fires faster, it sucks. Even if the fusion bullet travels slower.

And about the EMP ownage, I would just set the damage type to energy drain, y'know. But it's your project, so you should decide.

Also, flamethrower's projectiles should fly faster in multiplayer.
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assassingao

Post Apr 23rd '07, 16:59

It's alright, the pistol has already been replaced.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 30th '07, 17:53

Hey guys, shongshong just made a new EMP cannon for TGI!
M16 Bazooka!
Looks totally sweet. [MGrin]

BTW, TGI rocks. Can't wait for TGI X (or whatever).
Imup
Somewhere in the lone star state

Post Apr 30th '07, 18:10

Maybe Ryoko would appreciate some discretion regarding his new projects. I'm sure the reason he hasn't revealed the presence of the new weapons is because he wants to surprise players when they fire the game up.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Apr 30th '07, 18:39

Yeah, I agree with Phantom (Irons?). I want to be surprised when TGI is finished. There would be no point if Ryoko spoon-fed us all of the changes between the current version and the newer version...
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Lugas

Post Apr 30th '07, 18:49

There would be no point if Ryoko spoon-fed us all of the changes between the current version and the newer version...


Not true. Remember that Beyond is an updated version of TGI, and the main point of the game is to address a lot of the issues that may have driven people off in the original version. In this case, making a fairly articulate list of changes would be pretty critical in providing drawing power. If you haven't played TGI, the list of changes won't mean much; if you played TGI and were sort of undecided about it, the list of changes should make you go "oh that's sweet, I'll give it another shot."

If I just said "yeah I'm changing a bunch of shit but I'm not going to tell you what" then it wouldn't really help.

The other idea is by making it clear what I intend to do, I can hopefully get some discussion about some things that I may have missed that need to be addressed.



...that said, I don't really appreciate what I_likecarnage did. I'm sort of irritated that shong posted that on his flickr page, but to be fair, I was showing the pic around in the IRC channel, and he did do a really good job so it's his right to show it off.
Last edited by RyokoTK on Apr 30th '07, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 30th '07, 19:08

I like how you seem to be using friendlies more extensively in The Gray Incident: Beyonder.
Hopefully not utilized in a way where the Human soldiers seemed to have gotten these orders:
Alright men, we're sending a lone Marine to take on a mission of the upmost importance.
He could probably do it himself, but we're sending you in to die anyway.
Squad 1, you are to accompany him to draw the enemies fire away from him.
Squad 2, you are going to be teleported in exactly when the enemy does in an impossible fighting position so that you can be murdered more effectively.

Suit up and be ready to get slaughtered!

Poor Vac Bobs. I guess its not so bad because your not having to BETRAY them, like in Infinity. Killing them hurt me on the inside. Call me wierd, but I like fighting with bobs rather than Pfhor.
I try and save as many as I can.

I like Marathon Evil's use of Vac Bobs in "We be ground pounders."
They take the same path you do, and it feels like your fighting along side them, rather than just walking into a room and seeing them murdered at random.
Last edited by MoppyPuppy on Apr 30th '07, 19:13, edited 1 time in total.
MoppyPuppy
Lake Nebagamon, WI

Post Apr 30th '07, 19:22

Er, there were no Vac Bobs in We Be Ground Pounders. The only friendlies were those drone things, which were ridiculously good.

At any rate, realistic Bob usage goes by the wayside in TGI, and that's just personal style: gameplay components always come before storyline components, and no matter how much it sucks that the Vac Bobs get roasted, they are a valuable asset on Total Carnage, just because they do some good damage and can buy you time to set it up. If you're fast and have good aim, you can save those Vac Bobs anyway.

Plus, in TGI:B they no longer drop ammo, so you're no longer encouraged to kill them for it.
Last edited by RyokoTK on Apr 30th '07, 19:25, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 30th '07, 19:33

Are you sure? Well it was the level where you meet the very first mystic.
All the Vacbobs are placed up on top of a box, drop pod of some kind and they spread through a part of the level helping you clear out the facility.

Later on they teleport in effective killing formations, you still need to intervene to ensure they're success but it doesn't take much.
Also they had a cool feature of the slow yet powerful Overloaded Fusion bolt where you could actually hear and see them charge they're Fusion pistols.

Also, I dont know if it was just a fluke or not, but what I saw was a Security class Vac-bob charge up and yelled "CLEAR!" just before he anihilated a hunter descending on me.
I'm not saying he saved my life, and I was probably just in his way, but it was a really cool moment.

I like cool moments. I think most cool moments require Friendly Bobs of some kind.
Cool gameplay and cool moments are very important to me.
Last edited by MoppyPuppy on Apr 30th '07, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.
MoppyPuppy
Lake Nebagamon, WI

Post Apr 30th '07, 19:37

I_likecarnage wrote:Hey guys, shongshong just made a new EMP cannon for TGI!
M16 Bazooka!
Looks totally sweet. [MGrin]

BTW, TGI rocks. Can't wait for TGI X (or whatever).


Holy ka-shnitzel that looks nice... however, it looks too nice for all of Ryoko's other weapons, i.e. it will make the rest look like shit and make the view of them 'unbalanced'.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Apr 30th '07, 19:42

Holy ka-shnitzel that looks nice... however, it looks too nice for all of Ryoko's other weapons, i.e. it will make the rest look like shit and make the view of them 'unbalanced'.


Shong has also made a new fusion pistol, rocket launcher, and katar (punch blade). The Infinity pistols and alien weapon are entirely gone. Also, the models like the one you saw for the EMP are hi-res; TGI:B will not use hi-res sprites, so they'll look more like the rest of the collection.

And, really, the Imperials, assault rifle, and flamethrower don't look too bad.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Apr 30th '07, 19:54

RyokoTK wrote:And, really, the Imperials, assault rifle, and flamethrower don't look too bad.


On the side of the Imperials there shows a horizontal line for a diagonal surface, and the flamethrower looks hideous.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Apr 30th '07, 20:34

RyokoTK wrote:The Infinity pistols and alien weapon are entirely gone.


What about Enforcers?
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Lugas

Post Apr 30th '07, 20:36

I have to agree about the flamethrower. It looks really out-of-focus. I'm not sure if something happened when/if the image was scaled, or in the transition from the image editor to Anvil, but I would like to see a less blurry version of that weapon-in-hand sprite. I know Simon disappeared into the Canadian wilderness, so who knows how that will work out.

PS: Lugas, Enforcers no longer drop the Alien Weapon item when they die. They still shoot at you with the gun, though.
Last edited by irons on Apr 30th '07, 20:37, edited 1 time in total.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Apr 30th '07, 20:47

What about Enforcers?


They function as they did in Marathon EVIL; that is, they still exist, and still fire the same shot, but they just don't drop the gun when they die. That's because I needed the extra weapon slot; after all, after about level 5 or so, the alien weapon became completely useless. I doubt it will be missed.
Last edited by RyokoTK on Apr 30th '07, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post May 1st '07, 00:56

i have to say, i use the alien weapon a lot in the later levels especially. It stunlocks aliens almost as well as the imps and helps you save ammo. I use the alien weapon mostly on the aliens that the emp cannon doesn't effect as well as the stragglers after firing a few emp shells at a group. You could probably eliminate this use with careful ammo placement in the later levels.
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screamingfool

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