Summer mapmaking collaboration project

[gmanyo]

I got lazy and stopped working on my map, just like I predicted I would. Sorry, I will not be contributing.

[Kurinn]

I have two maps which should be finished by the end of the week.

[attachment=3993:ok.png]

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[attachment=3994:ok3.png]

[attachment=3995:ok2.png]

[Skullcleaver]

[attachment=4002:WaterFacility_0001.png]
[attachment=4003:WaterFacility_0002.png]

As you can see, this level was partly inspired by testing, the first map. I am almost done texturing with this level and would hope for this level to be featured in contest. Thanks!

[Drictelt]

A golden tip: oblige yourself to draw small polygons only. That way, making a detailed map takes as much effort as make a rather plain one like this.

[treellama]

A golden tip: oblige yourself to draw small polygons only. That way, making a detailed map takes as much effort as make a rather plain one like this.

You can also make your maps as easy or difficult and as simple or complex as you like.

[Drictelt]

You can also make your maps as easy or difficult and as simple or complex as you like.

Great. But regardless of that, feedback and advice help to make progress. If Skullcleaver does not want to make progress, he's free to ignore my advice.

[treellama]

Only for the limited definition of progress: "A more detailed, badly-textured map"

[Drictelt]

progress in mapping is the transition from making less good maps to better maps, where "the map is detailed" is probably a clausule of the definition of a good map. Hence, learning to add detail is a way to make progress. This doesn't mean progress is defined as adding detail.

EDIT: I should probably have said "If Skullcleaver does not want to make progress, as far as detail is concerned, he's free to ignore my advice."

[MoppyPuppy]

A golden tip: oblige yourself to draw small polygons only. That way, making a detailed map takes as much effort as make a rather plain one like this.

I've always admired the "Kill them All" series for this level design aesthetic; the 100 polygon limit.
The limit makes every level a testament to what you can do with just 100 polygons.
Make a KTA style map and then look at what you've done, then look at all the polygons you have left and smile at all the possibilities.

[Shadowbreaker]

Wow, I like, forgot about this. My map stopped at around 900 polies, I could go back to complete it, but it would definitely require like at least 1200 total. For those of you who didn't catch it, it too is a water map... like most of the other ones mentioned here. Oh well, I've put some of my spiffy textures into it so it'll have its own look. It is based on how I felt when I was playing Poor Yorick and Waterloo Waterpark when I was little... it is mysticly blue and dark, but filled with wide open spaces.

[RyokoTK]

Well August 1 is a pretty loose deadline, the scenario isn't going to be ready for some time afterward. See, my assumption with giving people 3 months to make their map is that they'd finish earlier and send it in for peer review and that kind of thing. Which hasn't really happened. So the maps are all going to come in, get checked, and sent back for reviews throughout August.

I guess what I mean is that if you can finish within the first few days of August, that will be okay too.

[treellama]

progress in mapping is the transition from making less good maps to better maps, where "the map is detailed" is probably a clausule of the definition of a good map.

"Sufficiently detailed" is arguably a requirement for a good map, but conversely, "not overly detailed" is just as important. There appears to be a concerning myopia lately regarding the level of complexity in levels--both in new members, who may be used to working with other engines, but also in some experienced mapmakers. I have not seen your recent work, so I don't know if you are infected with it too, but your advice worried me. As a general rule it is exactly wrong: the engine handles a few large polygons far better than it handles a bunch of small polygons, so obliging yourself to draw only the latter is a recipe for an inefficient level. Even if not intended as a general rule, its application is going to be misconstrued by the current context of boasts about high polygon count, as if something without 1000+ polygons is somehow unworthy of the mapping avant garde.

From Skullcleaver's screenshots his level seems to be somewhere between Marathon and Marathon 2 levels of complexity, which is perfectly healthy for a new mapmaker. Better lighting and, particularly, texturing, are far more important focuses for, to use your phrase, making progress, than adding unnecessary detail.

[Drictelt]

I think I can agree with everything in this post, except that I think Skullcleaver's map has just a bit too little detail to look appealing (depending on how new he is to mapmaking, the amount of detail may be perfectly healthy). Texturing is probably a more urgent point, but I couldn't give any useful advice on that because it's just a matter of judging what is beautiful. As for lighting, I see differential shading - that's a good start.

I dunno, when I allow myself to make large polygons, my maps become painfully dull, and I recognized that problem here. And it seems Skullcleaver can size down a bit (especially on the shore) before any problems will arise.

As for my own work, I've got one of the slowest computers in the community, so when I get infected, I'll notice immediately.

[Kurinn]

Make your maps as large and complicated as possible, that's what I say.

If you leave any blank space in that map, you're doing it wrong. If you don't have 3 overlapping "floors" of ridiculous complexity, you're doing it wrong.

See, this way, you set yourself up for failure in the most magnificent way ever, since there's all the more places where something can go wrong, be textured poorly, etc.

It's a path to excellence!

[Skullcleaver]

Thank you all for this good advice, but I think I will follow Kurrins. I may have failed, but the point is, I failed amazingly.(489 poly)

[goran]

Make your maps as large and complicated as possible, that's what I say.

If you leave any blank space in that map, you're doing it wrong. If you don't have 3 overlapping "floors" of ridiculous complexity, you're doing it wrong.

See, this way, you set yourself up for failure in the most magnificent way ever, since there's all the more places where something can go wrong, be textured poorly, etc.

It's a path to excellence!

Wisdom clad in humor.

[CryoS]

normally i hit 750 polygons after 2 rooms... no matter how i do :C

[goran]

normally i hit 750 polygons after 2 rooms... no matter how i do :C

It's because you love curves You know what I mean? ^^

[ukimalefu]

SPNKR? I don't even know'er! (but I'd love to. Oh yeah)

[RyokoTK]

Okay, well, I'm going to be spending the next few days playing through what I've received and giving the appropriate instructions for improvement while I wait for a few stragglers to finish up their work.

[Kurinn]

I just can't stop fiddling with this damn map until I feel like I've accomplished something, so now I'm going to just say I did so I can wait patiently to see if I have.

That statement makes perfect sense when you haven't slept for 48 hours.

Meanwhile, a small taste of the landscaping for anyone who is interested...


[attachment=4104:waterfall.jpg]
[attachment=4103:lava.jpg]

[Skullcleaver]

[attachment=4104:waterfall.jpg]
[attachment=4103:lava.jpg]

Wow this looks awesome and a lot better than my maps. Nice job!

[CryoS]

sorry for the delay, just got rid of my mappers block.
[attachment=4113:Applejuice_0000.png]
[attachment=4114:Applejuice_0001.png]

[Kurinn]

sorry for the delay, just got rid of my mappers block.

That looks really nice. What sort of bloom settings are you using? I can practically feel the lava just from looking at it. Which lava set is that?

Aside:

Ryoko, if it will be a while before you get a chance to look at my map, let me know, and I'll take my time to do some more tweaking on it.
I just don't want to send another update if you're in the middle of your assessment, in which case I'd want to wait to get your input first.
In any case, I have another two weeks before my classes begin again, so I want to do what I can. I've been working on this so long I think it's gotten to be an addiction.

Former Query Redirected:
Goran?

[CryoS]

That looks really nice. What sort of bloom settings are you using? I can practically feel the lava just from looking at it. Which lava set is that?

ask goran.