I will play every level in Eternal X and comment on them.

For topics about the story, help in a certain level, game discussion, or finding/discussing content.

Post Oct 13th '10, 09:33

I really like Eternal.

Eternal is a plot oriented game. Although if you were to convert Eternal into a book, the cliff notes would be fantastic but the book would suck.
Meaning all the plot points of whats happening in the story book are compelling and captivating, but the depiction of how each plot point plays out (i.e. the protagonist's actions that forward the plot points) would make the book terrible.

Perhaps a lazier route would be better. 1 good level for each chapter.
You have so many missions to depict one event. Hathor turns out to be a psycho-bi***, Tycho becomes assimilated by Tycho, Leela enters the fray, etc. etc.
5-6 levels could be 1-2.

What I do like about Eternal though; its curves!
Some levels are curvy, organic almost. Most if not all scenarios are turning towards rigid, ribbed, and no-2-polygons can be the same elevation if they touch designs.

Or my favorite, some one thinks a level looks plain, so they insert a ton of 1024x256 polygons in the walls and put that well-known computer wall texture inside and thinks YEAH ARCHITECTURE!

I personally think that no one who designs square-esque maps should be able to judge Eternal's curvy levels. Because they don't know how to do any better themselves.
Eternal is one of the only scenarios that makes proper Pfhor ships.
Other scenarios just say: "Oh its a converted UESC ship" or "There is no standard in Pfhor design, and this ship just happens to be squarish."
MoppyPuppy
Lake Nebagamon, WI

Post Oct 13th '10, 16:38

MoppyPuppy wrote:Or my favorite, some one thinks a level looks plain, so they insert a ton of 1024x256 polygons in the walls and put that well-known computer wall texture inside and thinks YEAH ARCHITECTURE!

I take offense at that remark. [MFrown]
Although to be fair, I don't do it as often as it was done in Phoenix. Don't dis Phoenix! [MAngry]

MoppyPuppy wrote:I personally think that no one who designs square-esque maps should be able to judge Eternal's curvy levels. Because they don't know how to do any better themselves.
Eternal is one of the only scenarios that makes proper Pfhor ships.
Other scenarios just say: "Oh its a converted UESC ship" or "There is no standard in Pfhor design, and this ship just happens to be squarish."

Actually, quite a few people can make good Pfhor ship levels. They don't have to be curvy, since there really isn't a standard in Pfhor design. Take the Boomer (which was originally a Pfhor ship), and compare, say, If I had a Rocket Launcher to Rise Robot Rise, and then to, say, Pfhoraphobia. And then we come to Rubicon. Compare those to This Hurts Less Than... Uhh, Bump and Grind, Carpe *mumble mumble latin*, and Exit Door Leads in. And what about other mappers who can make good Pfhor ships? Like the ones in Tempus Irae, Phoenix, the one in TGI, and Apotheosis, and that's just the start. Just yesterday I downloaded a mini-scenario called Detachment Release 1, and the first level was a Pfhor ship. It was awesome, and nothing like a direct clone of Infinity's Pfhor architecture. Just as long as they feel suitably alien and spaceship-like, it doesn't matter.
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Dugit
Hampshire, UK


Post Oct 14th '10, 08:45

I personally think that Eternal needs a prequel.
You got the interactions between the protagonist and Hathor, Leela, Durandal, Tycho, and even Jjaro AI's. And exploring the known history of Marathon's back story is neat and all, but whats REALLY interesting to me is the cataclysmic events prior to the beginning of Eternal.

A scenario where humanity ultimately loses and is set up for its downfall.
A scenario where, "Never have the Pfhor been dealt such a humiliating defeat!" becomes "Never has humanity suffered so many casualties in a war before!"

I want to know about the conflict with not only the Pfhor, but the Spht'kr as well.
I want to see the story where everyone loses.
And I especially want to see how Leela plays in. Eternal's descriptions are pretty vague in that regard.
MoppyPuppy
Lake Nebagamon, WI

Post Oct 14th '10, 19:44

Actually, if you look carefully it tells you exactly what role she plays. The events of the game actually cause the events that lead to the events of the game occurring (in more ways than one, but this particular way involves Leela and humanity losing the war).

Chapter 2 shows the war at its height, right before the end. There is a large Pfhor fleet amassing at the system where that chapter takes place. Humanity is feebly mounting a defense force, but it's really the S'pht'kr that end up carrying the day.

Then, just as the chapter ends and we go back in time with Leela, S'bhuth signals the S'pht'kr fleet to retreat to Earth. Leela intends to follow after them "when" we get back from our time-travel chase after Hathor - "when" being "immediately", since it's time travel after all.

So we go on into Chapter 3, during the events of which Hathor is (temporarily) defeated, but when we are kidnapped Leela gets stranded in the past, and so has to crack into Hathor's ruined mind to get access to the K'lia junction; which, need I remind you, was at the core of S'bhuth's mind, and then the core of Hathor's. Leela now basically has root access to S'bhuth and Hathor; or would, if they weren't already dead.

But it turns out Hathor's not so dead anymore, and she flees and takes the link to K'lia with her, so Leela follows after her with us into Chapter 4, where we "kill" her again (though she secretly escapes to Chapter 5), and Leela takes control of the K'lia junction again. All is good with the world (so we think), and so we return back to the end of the Pfhor war, where we left off in Chapter 2.

Instead, we (the player-character, Marcus) somehow end up in the weirdness which is Chapter 5, and don't find out what happened to Leela until the end terminal. As Leela relates to you, she got back to the future just fine, but without you. She went back to Earth along with the S'pht'kr fleet to see what was up... only to find the S'pht'kr attacking the human fleet! S'bhuth had "gone mad" (In truth he was trying to prevent a human victory because he foresaw that that would result in the Pfhor deploying the trih xeem on Earth's sun as a desperate last move, releasing a W'rkncacnter and destroying the universe; similar to Thoth at the end of M2, but more effective this time. This part is explained in another terminal elsewhere). The human fleet had no chance of overwhelming the 'Kr fleet, and the Pfhor fleet was still right behind them too. So Leela did the only thing she could do to help: used her access to the K'lia junction to destroy S'bhuth.

With that, the S'pht'kr lost their central control and just attacked at random. The human fleet mostly went on the defensive, and when the Pfhor fleet arrived it and the S'pht'kr mutually annihilated each other along with most of the human fleet, our colonies (e.g. Mars), and Earth. The Pfhor considered mankind defeated and did not deploy the trih xeem, but were still greatly weakened by the battle. Meanwhile Durandal's Compiler rebellion continued to run its course through the rest of the Pfhor empire, who focused their efforts on damage control there. In the end, the S'pht were extinct, the Pfhor empire was severely weakened across the galaxy, and mankind was left clinging to a barren alien moon (K'lia) as their only remaining home.

After that battle, Leela went looking for you (Marcus) to try to do something about it all, and eventually came across the Sphere, unlocking it only to find you and Hathor and the dreams of the W'rkncacnter frozen in time inside it. The Pfhor followed her there (the Sphere is deep in the heart of their part of space), freaked out about the W'rkncacnter dreams, and tried to blow the whole thing up with a trih xeem, which ends up destroying the entire galaxy since the Sphere is a galaxy-spanning superweapon and so blowing up its power core is a Very Bad Thing. (Presumably this explosion is still 'slowly' making its way across the galaxy at light speed during the time of the prologue; mankind probably doesn't even know about it, having better things to do than poke around in the heart of Pfhor territory with the tiny handful of ships they have left). But in her own last act of desperation, Leela flings you Outside (i.e. outside the universe, outside of time) to let you sort it all out and make it better.

Which, as it turns out, involves going back in time with Durandal to the end of Infinity and making sure none of it happens in the first place.
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Oct 14th '10, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 14th '10, 21:11

Dugit wrote:downloaded a mini-scenario called Detachment Release 1


link?
words
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ellio7t
long beach, ca no, now I live in L.A.

Post Oct 15th '10, 04:15

ellio7t wrote:link?

Detachment - Release 1
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brilliant

Post Oct 19th '10, 11:03

I'm just coming to the end of Eternal now and I have to say I absolutely loved it, although I was incredibly disappointed with the Jjaro chapter!

One of the things that excited me most about playing Eternal was when I read on traxus: "Chapter V: Antiquity, set in an ancient Jjaro facility over 65 million years ago." I was looking forward to it throughout the whole game and I was intrigued to see what this would be like, and I was kind of expecting it to be similar to Ne Cede Malis in terms of atmosphere and texture, etc. but not quite as dark, maybe with some greeny/yellowy shades (a bit like the very first level The Far Side of Nowehere maybe?). But instead I was greeted with this bright blue weirdness and pathways sprites that just looked really out of place!

I was expecting the Jjaro levels to be eerie and contemplative, without much combat, and more just about developing/tying up the plot and showing us some impressive architecture and so on, but instead they were just insane, with ridiculous combat against infinitely respawning enemies, against the backdrop of really tacky textures and architecture. The ending of Where Giants have Fallen was superb though.

Other than that though I thought the game was amazing. And the storyline throughout was incredible, including the jjaro chapter. Really really enjoyed it. Favourite chapter was probably the Second, which was surprising. The first was a lot of fun too. As was the third.

I think in terms of his critique on level design and playability and so on, Ryoko was overly critical!
Last edited by CitizenKane on Oct 19th '10, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
CitizenKane
Dublin, Ireland

Post Oct 25th '10, 13:50

After having another playthrough of Apotheosis, after one of Eternal X, I noticed something familiar, and couldn't quite put my finger on it. After another playthrough of Eternal X, I could.

Large parts of the Apotheosis level Eve of Orbit and the Eternal X S'pht Chapter level Eat S'pht And Die seem almost identical. This is most intriguing. :o

The first two images are of Eve of Orbit, and the last two are of Eat S'pht and Die. Note the resemblances.
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Dugit
Hampshire, UK

Post Oct 25th '10, 19:46

IIRC the author of that map made it first for Eternal and then (while Eternal was stagnating) also contributed it to Apotheosis. Several other people have pointed this out before. I don't see a dire need to change it.
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Director of the Xeventh Project, the team behind Eternal
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Oct 25th '10, 20:26

OK thanks for cleaning that up. That's been eating away at me for a while now. :)
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Dugit
Hampshire, UK

Post Oct 20th '13, 21:06

Okay... I just finished reading all the commentary for Eternal X. Once again, great job TK.

Eternal comes second to Rubicon as one of my favorite third-party scenarios for Marathon. I can agree with your opinion for a lot of these maps.

Hathor... I kind of wished she wasn't a villain, or at least a better villain. I felt bad for her that I accidently went on the failure path for Chapter 5. It might sound strange, but I think the romance aspect TK mentioned would have been interesting to see more of. You don't see romance in any scenarios for Marathon (none that I can recall, except maybe Yota Saga). Maybe it wouldn't fit, but it would be cool to see someone attempt it.

Tycho was kind of cool in the beginning of the scenario. Makes you wonder what could have been...

Eternal X wasn't actually the first version I played. Back when I had the old Mac laptop of mine, it had some version of Eternal on it. For some reason, whenever it started up, the colors would go puke rainbow. Sometime later, I changed the color setting in the preferences, making the colors normal. It took a long time for each map to load, but I remember it being kind of cool, and I got stuck on a loop of the failed timeline because I didn't know any other way. I figured it out somehow, but I never fully completed the game. Some of the things I remember were vacbobs attacking you on the first map, the S'pht Kr ball as a weapon, a dream map that took all your weapons away and made you go up stairs, a planet (scenary) outside a window, and the failed dream map, where everyone was invisible a freaked me out. Any of this sound familiar to anyone?

It looks like TK never played the failed dream map in EX with the banshees from PiD, which you can't kill. It scared me a lot, to the point that I refuse to revist that map. Running from unkillable monsters is a poor design!!
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Destiny
USA

Post Aug 2nd '16, 00:18

Hey guys, I hate to resurrect a six year-old thread, but I've only recently begun a playthrough of Eternal and found that I cannot progress at the end of Second to Last of the Mohicans. From the 1.0.3 walkthrough I've come to understand that the white platform at the end was originally a large teleporter, but now it has a terminal from Thoth instead. I don't know if speaking to Thoth is supposed to trigger the jump to the next level, but neither the terminal or the teleporter are sending me there. I was wondering if this was a well-known problem? I've only seen one other blog post online about it, which was apparently resolved because the problem was an engine error, but that obviously doesn't tell me much about how to get to the next level myself -_-
philichili

Post Aug 2nd '16, 02:01

Is the terminal you're reading garbled or coherent? If it's garbled, you haven't yet completed the mission objectives, which are to kill all the enemies. You shouldn't have to, but you might be able to fix the problem by killing some of the friendly S'pht, if you can't find any remaining actual enemies.

Also, are you playing 1.0.3, or just reading the 1.0.3 walkthrough while playing 1.1?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Aug 2nd '16, 02:13

That explains why playing through the level again from the start still gave me the garbled terminal! I'm playing 1.1 but I consulted the 1.0.3 walkthrough since I was stuck. I can't find anymore Pfhor on the map to kill so I'll try your S'pht solution. Thanks!
philichili

Post Jan 14th '17, 19:38

Hey Pfhorrest, I just finished playing through Eternal. I enjoyed it a lot, even though there was always that nagging sense of "Why do the pfhor always look the same?"

I have to report I also got stuck on Second to last of the Mohicans. I think there were a few Pfhor stuck behind a partially opened hangar door on the south side. Once I realized that the levels had been shuffled and I was on a fail path, I just reloaded an old save.

I have fond memories of playing Pathways into Darkness, so seeing the old sprites again made me smile :) I agree with Ryoko that they were a pain in the ass, but eventually it was pretty fun mowing them down with the BFG 9000 and lightsabers of doom. I feel like Ryoko missed the point with his disdain for the settings and recycled enemies, the point of Eternal is to explore and tie together the lore of Marathon and PiD. Recycling sprites just makes sense. I have a personal love for the M1 alien gun and was thrilled to mow down hordes of bugs with it :D

The weakest point for me by far was the plot in Chapter 5. I left chapter 4 excited to kick ass with Leela. Instead I'm transported to who knows where during god knows when. What I understood was that there was Halo type facility being activated to stop the Wr'kncancter. Was this Wr'kncancter destroyed? Is it the same one that was buried on Earth? Is it the one from Lh'owons sun? It's not clear at all. And the Jjaro AI begs you to escape to carry on humanity. Is that what you actually did? Is Marcus the biblical Adam?

Supposedly the trih xeem plus the Jjaro installation combined would make a combination that would destroy the galaxy. Was it destroyed? Being rescued by Durandal and then told that now you're going to prevent the whole thing from ever happening seems like a HUGE cop out plot wise. At this point, the suggested sequel, "Eternal: You and Durandal making things right" will never happen. I would just rewrite the ending a bit, at least answer the big questions. I think the timeline alterations of the previous chapters should make humanity successful. Hathor is dead, Tycho is dead, S'buth doesn't go crazy, and Leela has a powerful ship. Durandal should be congratulating you for saving the universe yet again, not saying that everything went to shit but now we can do it right this time.

In any case, thank you for keeping the project alive and making it awesome and fun :)
Swic

Post Jan 14th '17, 23:45

Thanks Swic, I'm glad you liked it overall.

To answer some of your questions, which do have answers in the text though I'm sorry if they're too hard to find: the W'rkncacnter was the one that was later buried on Earth (though it wasn't exactly buried at that point, it had just landed), and it wasn't destroyed (they can't be), but it was defeated, for 65 million years or so at least, until it began to stir again in 1994. This should be abundantly clear from the end of the Ch5 failure branch, which I'm assuming you must have avoided.

Marcus is not the biblical Adam or anything like it, because he is removed from that timeline by Leela. If he had been something like that, then Jjaro civilization would have continued. Instead, humanity just evolved on Earth in a Jjaro-less universe like they always did, and eventually some of them went back in time to become the Jjaro, who then died.

The Jjaro installation was destroyed by the trih xeem and then that proceeded to destroy the galaxy. This was already happening at the start of Eternal, though nobody at Earth knew it; the lightspeed wave of destruction is slow, and originating from Pfhor space, where the last remnants of humanity aren't poking around. Not that it really matters, because before the destruction can get that far Hathor returns in a captured Jjaro dreadnaught and basically is a free W'rkncacnter. I hadn't actually thought this part through until just now, but possibly she is destroyed by the exploding Jjaro installation too, since it is made for fighting W'rkncacnter.

There was never going to be a sequel. The idea is that the very thing that caused this entire problem was exactly what started off Eternal, from Marcus' perspective: he was plucked out of the timeline at the end of Infinity, and brought 111 years into the future to a world where humanity had already lost, largely because he wasn't there in the meantime. Also, Durandal escaped the universe at the same time and consequently left the timeline himself. Now, after witnessing the debacle that is that time loop and the bigger one that it's connected to (the events we've seen in Eternal), he's going back, older and wiser, and taking you (likewise matured) with him, to be there for the events you should have been there for all along, with the suggestion that you will probably have to try them over and over again until you finally get it right, because the Jjaro don't want you to get it right. But with him back, S'bhuth won't go crazy (from absorbing his S'pht), and with you there Hathor will never be resurrected in the first place (no need), plus presumably the evil Tycho clones are defeated along with the Pfhor eventually and with no crazy S'bhuth the Leela clone we met lives happily ever after with Blake and crew on her captured Pfhor ship, etc.

Lots of other scenarios have already covered some version or another of those events with varying degrees of "getting it right" (well, mostly Rubicon), so there's nothing more for me to write there.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jan 15th '17, 21:47

the Ch5 failure branch, which I'm assuming you must have avoided


Well yeah, I hated Hathor since the first betrayal back in the M1 timeline :P Always got a "kill all humans" vibe from her, and I'm not one of those vidmaster psychos who enjoy killing all the BoBs.

Instead, humanity just evolved on Earth in a Jjaro-less universe like they always did, and eventually some of them went back in time to become the Jjaro, who then died.


Whoa, I must have missed this... But why would the Jjaro not want a successful timeline then?

The Jjaro installation was destroyed by the trih xeem and then that proceeded to destroy the galaxy. This was already happening at the start of Eternal, though nobody at Earth knew it; the lightspeed wave of destruction is slow, and originating from Pfhor space, where the last remnants of humanity aren't poking around.


Ok, this makes a little more sense. Initially I thought the installation blew up in the 65 million years ago time frame, but the time distortion brought the whole thing to Eternal's timeline. Still feels like a weird sequence of events.

While I don't love the timeline spaghetti and reading between the lines, I can see how it comes together in the end and really appreciate the thorough knowledge of the lore you have shown. I know you inherited years of contributions from lots of people, but I want to thank you especially for showing the project and the lore so much love. Funny that you mention Rubicon, I'm playing that one now. The level design and reworked weapons and sounds are a big step up and the terminals have the brevity I was missing so much during Eternal. But I'll always remember Eternal for exploring all the cool events that the original trilogy only alluded to. Plus BFG 9000 and lightsabers of doom :P Just need to add a sound effect for them, maybe it was just me but the lightsabers were silent?
Swic

Post Jan 16th '17, 05:42

Swic wrote:I feel like Ryoko missed the point with his disdain for the settings and recycled enemies, the point of Eternal is to explore and tie together the lore of Marathon and PiD. Recycling sprites just makes sense.


There is precedent for sprites being redrawn between entries in a Marathon game -- see the difference between Marathon and Durandal -- so no, recycling the old sprites does not inherently make sense. Furthermore, Eternal is not consistent in where it uses old sprites and new ones; if Eternal just used M1 sprites all the way down then yeah, I'd say that's a fair concession. Not one that I personally like, but then, I unilaterally like the Durandal sprites more than the M1 sprites.

I get that redrawing a bunch of sprites would be a massive undertaking, certainly well beyond my own ability, so if Pfhorrest's intention was having the sprites be updated but he couldn't find someone to do the work... well, I'd definitely understand that, but for myself I would have just written the plot differently to focus on what I could do. If it was just a stylistic choice to leave the old ones in, well, then I just didn't like it. I feel like that's okay, though. vOv

That chapter of Eternal was really tiresome to me for several reasons, not the least of which is some heinously difficult (in a bad way) levels toward the end, so I think I was just hard on a lot of the aspects of it as a result. It's a lot easier for me personally to overlook some problems if the level design is overall solid, like in the first three chapters, where the biggest problem I had was time travel (really??).

eta: Whoa, this review of EX is nearly seven years old... one of these days I'll give it another chance. I don't play Marathon as much as I used to though.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jan 16th '17, 23:36

Swic wrote:
Instead, humanity just evolved on Earth in a Jjaro-less universe like they always did, and eventually some of them went back in time to become the Jjaro, who then died.


Whoa, I must have missed this... But why would the Jjaro not want a successful timeline then?

There's several different kinds or stages of "Jjaro".

The earliest are the technologically advanced biological humans from the future, who built the Sphere and then died when it was activated, who were supposed to have survived in stasis inside the Sphere to be released by their mechanized descendants (uploaded minds, AIs, etc) after the W'rkncacnter were gone, but Hathor ruined that plan with her attack on the Sphere.

The middle stage are those same mechanized descendants, who continued the earlier Jjaro's civilization for a long while after their biological species went extinct, and are responsible for uplifting other biological sapients such as the Nahk and S'pht. Yrro and Pthia were among their number.

The final stage are those same beings, who went on to develop the Cybernetic Junction and with it to escape the physical confines of space and time, becoming beings of pure information transcending the multiverse, and in doing so vanished from the timeline except where they return to intervene in it. There are many other such beings not of the same origin as the ones we call "Jjaro", originating from across space and time, and all of the ones generally aligned with the ones we call "Jjaro" are part of this same third group of Jjaro.

That last group are the ones who want the first kind of Jjaro to die as recorded in their history, and the reason they want that to continue to happen is because most beings presented with nigh-omnipotence over space and time go mad in either one of two ways: either they become obsessed with making history go "the best" way, changing it to suit their personal whims, in constant conflict with all the other such beings trying to make it go differently, resulting in an unending chaotic war between "gods", which is what the W'rkncacnter are; or they become so terrified of that prospect that they dogmatically insist that history must go the way that it already went and anyone trying to change it must be stopped at any cost.

The third kind of Jjaro above are of the latter mindset, and so they insist that the history they originated from, where the biological Jjaro died out 65Mya (after originating from the humanity of the doomed future timeline Eternal starts in), must happen that way because it has always happened that way. Yes, even though it only ever happened that way because of their own intervention. They come from a time loop, so they must maintain the time loop, because (as they see it) to try to do otherwise leads to madness and chaos; someone like Durandal (after the end of Eternal) attempting to "make history better" is at the top of the slippery slope that leads to becoming a W'rkncacnter, as far as the Jjaro are concerned.

Ok, this makes a little more sense. Initially I thought the installation blew up in the 65 million years ago time frame, but the time distortion brought the whole thing to Eternal's timeline. Still feels like a weird sequence of events.

The installation was activated 65Mya, knocking out the W'rkncacnter that was active then and wiping out its dream-creatures; and then everything inside of it went into stasis, theoretically to be let out soon thereafter but because Hathor let W'rkncanter nightmares inside of it, that never happened. But then millions of years later during the Pfhor war Leela returns (from her adventures earlier in Eternal) and unlocks the thing, not knowing what's inside of it, and when the Pfhor follow her and see what's inside of it they blow it up, so the explosion that will eventually destroy the whole galaxy happens during the Pfhor war, and just hasn't gotten very far yet.

maybe it was just me but the lightsabers were silent?

They're supposed to make a little "szzt" sound (stolen from the S'pht Defender shot flyby sound, I think).

RyokoTK wrote:if Pfhorrest's intention was having the sprites be updated but he couldn't find someone to do the work... well, I'd definitely understand that, but for myself I would have just written the plot differently to focus on what I could do. If it was just a stylistic choice to leave the old ones in, well, then I just didn't like it. I feel like that's okay, though. vOv

The mix of M1 and M2 sprites was just me picking the ones that I liked best out of each game. The PiD monsters were used because the monsters I thought I had someone making for me (still W'rkncacnter dreams) never materialized, so I just used the W'rkncacnter dreams we'd already seen in PiD instead. I'm still thinking of changing them out for something else if I ever get time to get back to the small todo list I have left; I'm thinking of keeping just the Banshees (which I do really like), and replacing the others with things themed after them, all invisible so I don't have to make new sprites; having many fewer of each of them, but having each attack be more frightening; maybe replacing the Headless with something fast, weak, and making deep growling noises (like a Devlin) as it moves, so you hear the beast approaching quickly and before you know it it's on top of you but one shot from anything and it's dead; and maybe replacing the Nightmares with invisible, non-chirping wasps, so you hear them flapping somewhere nearby and you hear their shots whizzing past and occasionally hitting you but where the fuck are the tiny little fuckers so you can kill them. Monsters that are scary, in different ways, but not actually all that dangerous, just constantly threatening danger. "More horror, less hordes" is what I have in my notes.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jan 17th '17, 04:20

With all due respect, I feel that Chapter 5 was difficult enough without half the enemies being invisible. D:

I know it's still a PiD monster, but would the Skitter make a suitable replacement for the Headless? Not sure how strong they are in PiD, but they at least LOOK like they'd be weak-yet-fast and make disconcerting noises.
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General-RADIX

Post Jan 17th '17, 05:05

Pfhorrest wrote:maybe replacing the Nightmares with invisible, non-chirping wasps, so you hear them flapping somewhere nearby and you hear their shots whizzing past and occasionally hitting you but where the fuck are the tiny little fuckers so you can kill them


Please don't do this, that sounds completely miserable.

Honestly you are almost certainly better off just leaving it the way it is. The problem really is more with the levels and how the enemies are employed as opposed to the enemies themselves; I don't think the PID sprites mesh well with the rest of the game but that's about it.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jan 17th '17, 05:31

Whoa, this review of EX is nearly seven years old... one of these days I'll give it another chance. I don't play Marathon as much as I used to though.


Bwahaha, it's aliiiiive! I saw that Pfhorrest replied to someone half a year ago, so I figured he's still monitoring his baby. I replay the trilogy once every several years, but this is my first time trying out the fan-made stuff (I'll try out Phoenix soon!) Did you ever play through PiD? I enjoyed the nostalgia factor and overpowered doom weapons in Chapter 5, maybe there were some tweaks that make it more tolerable than when you played through it. I played on Major Damage, why bother dying all the time?

if I ever get time to get back to the small todo list I have left


Honestly, the community seems to be dying down rapidly. For example, the For Carnage Apply Within group just shut down for good. I suggested some tweaks to the plot/terminals because that wouldn't take much time. Making major alterations at this point just isn't worth the trouble, new players will probably enjoy it fine like I did. The PiD stuff made me want to play that old game again. From one old school Bungie fan to another, that's really cool!

I gotta say that I see Eternal's notorious verbosity coming through in your posts as well, but I appreciate the detail to show how the lore and Eternal's story work :)
Swic

Post Jan 17th '17, 06:10

Swic wrote:
Whoa, this review of EX is nearly seven years old... one of these days I'll give it another chance. I don't play Marathon as much as I used to though.


Bwahaha, it's aliiiiive! I saw that Pfhorrest replied to someone half a year ago, so I figured he's still monitoring his baby. I replay the trilogy once every several years, but this is my first time trying out the fan-made stuff (I'll try out Phoenix soon!) Did you ever play through PiD? I enjoyed the nostalgia factor and overpowered doom weapons in Chapter 5, maybe there were some tweaks that make it more tolerable than when you played through it. I played on Major Damage, why bother dying all the time?


I did play through PID once, a long time ago. It's not for me; super ancient FPS games are tough for me to get in to. I don't like PiD and I don't like Wolfenstein 3D either, even though Wolf-likes are actually seeing a sort of indie resurgence lately. I don't even like Marathon 1 all that much. For me, Doom and Marathon 2 are about as far back as I go.

I like to play on Total Carnage because I like the increased speed and threat of the game, especially when considering the vanilla ruleset, and so when stepping down to lower difficulties (even for harder scenarios, like Evil), it just feels really slow. So that's the baseline that I use to compare against the fan scenarios. And I feel like scenarios need to be designed to accommodate TC, since it is an option that exists in the game, so I do judge a level poorly if it has mechanics that pan out fine on Normal but don't scale up to TC.

I remember having a lot of difficulty using the Wave Motion Cannon, because I think it had collision issues with the terrain, but the swords worked fine and did a good job. It's just like I said, poor level designs -- or more accurately, poor level concepts -- that make chapter 5 not work for me. Infinitely respawning enemies are almost always a bad idea. But yeah, there wasn't really a nostalgia factor for me in this case.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Jan 18th '17, 15:23

RyokoTK wrote:Infinitely respawning enemies are almost always a bad idea.


I'm going to contribute nothing to this conversation just so I can say I agree with this statement, that's how much I agree with this statement.
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philtron

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