Tell me why I shouldn't delete the Pigeon Lounge.

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Post Mar 4th '08, 17:12

I see no real reason for the Pigeon Lounge to exist. Randomness and non-topicality is already allowed on the Chat board, meaning that the only reason for the Pigeon Lounge to exist is so that people can be assholes to each other without restraint. I don't believe that that sort of behavior should be encouraged on the Pfhorums -- and it does hurt the reputation of the board as a whole as people associate the nastiness and immaturity of the Pigeon Lounge with the rest of the site.

If you want to be a jerk over the Internet, you can go to 4chan, but I think that the attitude on the Pfhorums should be generally civil. However, I'm open to discussion.
Last edited by RyokoTK on Mar 5th '08, 15:22, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Mar 4th '08, 17:29

I don't really care that much, cause I never use the PL. But if the idiocy of the PL doesn't spread to other areas on the Pfhorums, I'm all for deleting it.
Mordekai

Post Mar 4th '08, 17:38

The Pfhorums wouldn't be the same without the Pigeon Lounge.
But go ahead, delete it, thus there are some funny topics in the PL...
What are you, if not seven different shades of stupid?
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CryoS
The Dungeon

Post Mar 4th '08, 17:44

But if the idiocy of the PL doesn't spread to other areas on the Pfhorums


The standing rules would still apply to the rest of the forums.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Mar 4th '08, 18:03

You mean it's possible to have worse nastiness and immaturity than we already see in the non-PL forums here!?
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 4th '08, 19:22

I say kill it. Call me a hypocrite if you must (Since I used to post in the PL regularly...), but it isn't needed.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Mar 4th '08, 19:30

logan wrote:That's a dumbass idea. Think about it.what happens if there is no forum dedicated to spam where will it go? EVERYWHERE ELSE. We would be thrown back to the pfhorums stone age.
Macsforever

Post Mar 4th '08, 19:37

Either that or we'd just lose a bunch of people who don't follow the guidelines?
Not to say that people don't follow the guidelines most of the time outside of the Pigeon Lounge. But I don't see getting rid of the PL having any detrimental effect on the Pfhorums in the long run. Yes, there'd be some spamming in the beginning because of people who were angry about the deletion, but that's it.
We'd also lose my wonderful *cough* Pigeon Lounge banner and I'd lose my HTML privileges in the PL, but I didn't use the HTML very much anyway.
Last edited by LegacyTyphoon on Mar 4th '08, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
The Pf'hak - Read it.
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LegacyTyphoon

Post Mar 4th '08, 19:48

There is already a Pigeon Lounge elsewhere, so how is this even a discussion?
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Wrkncacnter

Post Mar 4th '08, 19:50

That's a dumbass idea. Think about it.what happens if there is no forum dedicated to spam where will it go? EVERYWHERE ELSE. We would be thrown back to the pfhorums stone age.
RyokoTK wrote:Not really. Where does it go? Everywhere else. And then it gets deleted, and the user gets warned, and then they either stop doing it, or keep doing it and eventually get banned.


I honestly can't believe you posted that but didn't post my reply from there.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Mar 4th '08, 20:27

Hey, cool, a sort of important topic in the subforums that I hide most of the time. I never post on the PL, and hardly ever read anything inside, but I think it has its place for historical and practical reasons. Logan's assertions of a "pfhorums stone age" are kind of silly because there has been a PL here almost since the very beginning (maybe two weeks after the June 2005 launch) and because logan himself is speaking as though he witnessed it, even though he is new to the "scene." As dumb as it is, the PL is part of the Pfhorums, just like our tailbones are part of us.

Anyway, I also think it's a necessary evil. How many idiots post primarily in the PL? (This is both a rhetorical and a real question). When you look at some guy's profile and see that 75% of his posts go there, you're probably looking at someone who needs to stay there anyway. I'm not sure if those people would leave, or if they would migrate to Chat, etc. Let's see elaboration on the arguments that we would not get an overflow of these posts/posters. Even if the posts get deleted, they won't be deleted instantly, and so some people will probably reply, only to perpetuate the problem.

Treellama was spot-on when he implied that we are already a nasty bunch outside the PL, but I think it's a different level of nastiness. As far as I know, the PL isn't the stain on the Pfhorums (i.e. non-MSB) community, especially because the PL is password-protected and may only be entered if you want to do so. I think our reputation comes from our main forums. Let's face it, there are fundamental differences between these two groups that are apparent everywhere outside the PL. We like to play netgames, we're younger (immature) players, they like talking out of their asses and debating pointless minutae, blah blah blah.

On the other hand, I think it's sad that the PL holds the majority of posts on the Pfhorums. Technically they don't count as "real" posts, since a lot of them are probably "lol" and "haha."

If we delete the PL, maybe in its place there should be a link to INFINITYS, to which Wrk so wisely compared the PL.
Last edited by irons on Mar 4th '08, 20:28, edited 1 time in total.
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Mar 4th '08, 20:48

Let's see elaboration on the arguments that we would not get an overflow of these posts/posters.


The difference is that some of the nastiness posted in the PL is immediately punishable via warns, and thus by the eventual suspensions and bans. The threat of punishment, I imagine, would be enough to stymie the flow of nastiness outside of the PL. My guess is that some people, used to the PL attitude, would post similar topics on Chat, have it deleted with no punishment but a chastisement, and then that would be that. Some people might leave -- but would they really be missed, then?

If all you do is post on the Pigeon Lounge, then you don't really count as a Pfhorums user, you count as a Pigeon Lounge user. It's almost like comparing Defense of the Ancients to Warcraft 3 as a whole. Some people do nothing but play DOTA. Are they Warcraft 3 players? By technicality, but not really. When you consider people that play Warcraft 3, do you count the people that exclusively play DOTA? Not really. Of course, DOTA isn't really a bad thing.

The Pfhorums is a Marathon/Aleph One community board. It's not a board to be douchebags to one another. The PL doesn't contribute to the community as a whole -- but what it does do is breed hostility among some users, and this sometimes spreads beyond the PL, which defeats the purpose of locking the damn place up to begin with.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Mar 4th '08, 20:50

Well, I dont think it should be deleted.

1. If I still lurked in the PL, I would never give up the fight to save it. Feeling pissed off at shit because you are immature and dont want change in your internett experience is not how I like to feel. I'd consider the reactions of our most avid PL goers before deleting it. And plus, deleting something like that is just asking for trouble... you're already getting argued with. Just think of how I acted when Grayswandir turned the PL into some sort of anime hell. I'm sure you'd get that if you deleted it.

2. The PL has been here since I have, since the good ol days. These days are sure as hell not the good ol days. 3 years ago, people actually played Marathon online, as in, the most active members on the Pfhorums. When the Pfhorums were down, we'd all meet up in chatroom alephone and be "hey the pfhorums r down lets go play some marathon". But ever since that thing was locked up, the only chat we could go to was #alephone, which when tux0beliver gave it to Urben, your influence and map pack just took it over, and in your attempts to make everything mature and well behaved by enforcing rules and being the big scary admin, you simply ruined the novelty and spirit the community had.

And now you seek to desecrate the one of the oldest pieces of the Pfhorums. I personally couldn't throw anything like that away, no matter how stupid or pointless it was.

And I guess you could delete it, and I wouldnt be that mad about it in particular, but if you did, you'd have suceeded in totally ruining the Pfhorums. You have already modified most of it, and certainly not for the better. If you want there to be mature, go back to the Story Forums.
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Shadowbreaker
Melbourne, Victoria

Post Mar 4th '08, 20:55

Shadowbreaker wrote:3 years ago, people actually played Marathon online, as in, the most active members on the Pfhorums. When the Pfhorums were down, we'd all meet up in chatroom alephone and be "hey the pfhorums r down lets go play some marathon". But ever since that thing was locked up, the only chat we could go to was #alephone, which when tux0beliver gave it to Urben, your influence and map pack just took it over, and in your attempts to make everything mature and well behaved by enforcing rules and being the big scary admin, you simply ruined the novelty and spirit the community had.

What.
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Mar 4th '08, 21:02

But ever since that thing was locked up, the only chat we could go to was #alephone, which when tux0beliver gave it to Urben, your influence and map pack just took it over, and in your attempts to make everything mature and well behaved by enforcing rules and being the big scary admin, you simply ruined the novelty and spirit the community had.
You have got to be kidding me.

Currently I'm not really enforcing anything on the PL, except that you aren't allowed to call people fags. I don't honestly think that's a bad thing, and it's really not an extreme limitation. I'm not asking much of people with that... and if you think the PL, as it exists now, is "decaying" or whatever, then it's not my fault... and if you're talking about the rest of the forums, that isn't the scope of this discussion. If you want to take a stand about how I'm single-handedly ruining the community, make another topic.

And what do you want me to do about my map pack? Do you want me to apologize for making a good map pack...? I don't get it.

And I guess you could delete it, and I wouldnt be that mad about it in particular, but if you did, you'd have suceeded in totally ruining the Pfhorums. You have already modified most of it, and certainly not for the better. If you want there to be mature, go back to the Story Forums.


I never knew that maturity was so bad!

Once again, if you think running around and being a prick to other people and spamming topics is novel and full of spirit, you're free to go to 4chan, where they embrace that kind of stupid crap.

you're already getting argued with


Go on.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Mar 4th '08, 21:11

irons wrote:What.

Agreed. It saddens me that your usual pointless drivel reaches a new level when it comes to defending something as detestable as the Pigeon Lounge. Here's a hint as to how useless it is: it is even more full of nastiness and immaturity than the Pfhorums proper.

It's ridiculous that you suggest that a mere 3 years ago was the high point of the AIM channel--it was in its death throes at that point, the Pfhorums and PL having had their part to play in killing it. It's also pathetic that you feel you are qualified to comment on any "novelty" or "spirit" of the community that might have been lost, given your contributions to same.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Mar 4th '08, 21:21

I'd actually really like to see the PL deleted, even though I myself post there frequently. Most of the people who post in the PL a lot (with exception) do not contribute much to the pfhorums or community as a whole, and I would almost LIKE to see them try spreading their shit elsewhere, just so I could see them banned. The PL really does nothing FOR the pfhorums but keep a minimal amount of it's shit controlled.

I vote yes, delete it.
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$lave

Post Mar 4th '08, 21:23

The PL really does nothing FOR the pfhorums but keep a minimal amount of it's shit controlled.


I would like to go further on this point by suggesting that the PL doesn't actually keep shit under control -- it generates more.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Mar 4th '08, 22:12



Last edited by irons on Mar 4th '08, 22:14, edited 1 time in total.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Mar 4th '08, 23:34

I've changed my vote. I now wish for the PL to be deleted. Thanks for changing my mind, SB!
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azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Mar 5th '08, 01:11

RyokoTK wrote:I would like to go further on this point by suggesting that the PL doesn't actually keep shit under control -- it generates more.


What I meant when I said it keeps a *minimal* amount of the shit under control, is that at least a small portion of what might happen on the rest of the board stays in there, although, as you said, it does generate more shit, maybe more then it can control. Even if it does keep some of it under control, deleting it (as has been said), even if this releases some or a lot of the shit into the rest of the pfhorums, those members would be warned, and if it continues, banned, which can only really be a good thing for the general community, in my opinion.
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$lave

Post Mar 5th '08, 03:17

Sure, I'll miss Drake's hilarious swear-filled rants, but The pigeon lounge has to go.

Can I change my vote? I accidentally clicked no
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Blooregardo

Post Mar 5th '08, 03:36

While I am not a great fan of the pigeon lounge, I don't feel it needs to be done away with. I don't actively see the "spam" that supposily flows out of it in the regular forum anymore than would be there normally.

Since it is password protected, it is isolated from those stumbling into it by mistake.

Plus, you gotta have the sense of randomness in your life that the chat section will never "safely" provide without derailing topics.

I don't want more derailed normal topics because people don't have a place to derail their own topics.

The Pigeon lounge probably doesn't use too much bandwidth and so can't see why it needs to disappear for that reason

Sometimes there are some "quality" topics in the Pigeon Lounge, such as how to make explosive devices, and the crappy jokes thread. (Sorry, I thought some of them were pretty clever.)

I say keep the Pigeon Lounge because it doesn't matter either way, but I like how it is.



P.S. Ryoko, how much of this against the pigeon lounge is due to not wanting to moderate through all the trash in there?
Last edited by Zott on Mar 5th '08, 03:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Zott
Earth

Post Mar 5th '08, 08:33

Zott wrote:randomness in your life


I didn't really like you before, and now I have a reason.
dude, seriously. dude.
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thermoplyae

Post Mar 5th '08, 15:22

P.S. Ryoko, how much of this against the pigeon lounge is due to not wanting to moderate through all the trash in there?
None of it, because I don't have to moderate the trash in there. That's the point of why it's there. I just don't see a reason anymore for me to encourage such dickery anywhere on the site, whether or not it's visible to other people.

Sure, I'll miss Drake's hilarious swear-filled rants, but The pigeon lounge has to go.


Drake got himself banned anyway. I'm not going to entertain any posts wherein I'm called a Nazi because people posted in a topic saying they'd get banned if they did so, and I banned them accordingly.
Last edited by RyokoTK on Mar 5th '08, 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

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