Weland

Questions about the content creation procedure go here, including using Forge, Anvil, or other editors, or operating emulators like Basilisk II.

Post Aug 26th '09, 13:46

You guys probably figured out by now, Smithy is dead. Weland (pronounced Wayland) is its successor, written in C#. It aims to fix some of the problems Smithy would have difficulty overcoming:
  • Difficult to deploy
    It took me a long time to figure out how to build Smithy for Mac OS X, and even then there was no PowerPC support. effigy managed to get an exe to build, but I'm not sure it was native code. In contrast, building Weland for any of the big three is trivial.
  • Difficult to code
    Ocaml is amazing for geometry type stuff, which a level editor has to do a lot of, but terrible for general application development. So far the geometry stuff in Weland hasn't gotten much larger or more unwieldy than its Smithy counterpart, but the GUI stuff is much more concise and much less awkward.
  • Speed
    We found ways to improve Smithy's speed in Linux somewhat, but Weland has access to additional line drawing libraries, including Windows' native System.Drawing. Weland is currently very fast in Windows, decently fast in Linux, and acceptable on Mac OS X
I would guess maybe 10% of Smithy's functionality is implemented. It also has some features Smithy did not, like the ability to open (but not save) merged maps, and Undo. Unlike Smithy, the goal isn't to duplicate Forge. There will be no visual mode.

I am not going to post any binaries yet, but if someone else wants to they can, just please mention the SVN revision number you built from. You can find Weland's SVN here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/weland/

Included are response files that work with gmcs, and I assume will work with csc as well. weland.rsp builds with Cairo/GDK drawing backends, and windows.rsp builds against System.Drawing, using gtk-dotnet.dll. You will need the gtk-sharp SDK to build. To run binaries in Windows, you will need the gtk-sharp library (there is one available for the .NET framework, and it is enough to run Weland); on Mac OS X and Linux you will need to install the Mono runtime.

If you don't know what all of this means, be patient--someone who does will figure it out, or there will be better instructions as Weland gets more functionality. I'm announcing it now in the hopes that some more C# coders are lurking out there and might want to help.

Please don't report missing features yet. If you have build questions at a level above "how do I build this step by step" you are welcome to post those.

[attachment=2990:weland.png]
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Last edited by treellama on Aug 26th '09, 14:07, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 26th '09, 14:02

:D

Nice icon.

How did [?you] arrive at the name?
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Aug 26th '09, 14:05

TychoVII designed that icon :)

Weland was the smith who made Beowulf's mail shirt.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 26th '09, 14:12

He does nice work.

That's a nice reference. Though, I admit I was hoping it was about spiral stair cases.
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Aug 26th '09, 20:15

Sadly thanks to my connection, I can't give it a try. (Mono was fairly big last time i checked) but judging from the Screenshot. the GUI looks quite nice and seems to be quite efficient.

Congratulations on this release/announcement.
Godspeed
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JohannesG

Post Aug 26th '09, 20:45

will there be some of the obed-exclusive features? such as auto-stairs, ellipses, bend, etc.?
D?rovací tvá?í.

Fobo: I find it hard to keep a sentence down under two paragraphs.
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tehWastedJamacan
SuFu, SD

Post Aug 26th '09, 21:16

The answer right now looks like no. His goal at the moment is matching Smithy's functionality and little more. He has hinted at possibilities after he completes that functionality, but he has warned us that we will have to wait and see. Members of #alephone did request those exact features, though.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Aug 26th '09, 21:26

No plans for stairs or ellipses, but I do want to support Forge's option/command alternate line drawing modes, which pretty much obviate the need for either.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 26th '09, 21:55

Treellama wrote:No plans for stairs or ellipses, but I do want to support Forge's option/command alternate line drawing modes, which pretty much obviate the need for either.


Thank you for answering my question. How about a perspective view? Like visual mode, except you can't change the map at all. Just look at it.
D?rovací tvá?í.

Fobo: I find it hard to keep a sentence down under two paragraphs.
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tehWastedJamacan
SuFu, SD

Post Aug 26th '09, 22:03

WastdJamacan wrote:Thank you for answering my question. How about a perspective view? Like visual mode, except you can't change the map at all. Just look at it.


I don't think treellama plans on adding a visual mode of any sort, but I could be wrong.
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$lave

Post Aug 26th '09, 22:06

Maybe Weland should have an option to fire up JUICE to take advantage of its visual mode.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Aug 27th '09, 01:37

W wrote:Maybe Weland should have an option to fire up JUICE to take advantage of its visual mode.


Can you run Java apps in C#? I would assume so, but you never know.
D?rovací tvá?í.

Fobo: I find it hard to keep a sentence down under two paragraphs.
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tehWastedJamacan
SuFu, SD

Post Aug 27th '09, 02:05

Here's one of it running in Mac OS X:
[attachment=2993:Picture_5.png]

Notice that, like Smithy, it isn't a native app.
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Last edited by treellama on Aug 27th '09, 02:06, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 27th '09, 02:07

Oh good, you can resize the Level Parameters window. I've always had trouble with that.
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RyokoTK
Saint Paul, MN

Post Aug 27th '09, 05:29

in the interest of staying on the edge of the limelight, "matching smithy's functionality" should be (loosely) interpreted as "frantically copying and translating smithy code" in posts above

don't forget about me, pfhorums; smithy is serving a purpose :(
Last edited by thermoplyae on Aug 27th '09, 05:31, edited 1 time in total.
dude, seriously. dude.
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thermoplyae

Post Aug 27th '09, 05:42

You made a topic about Smithy called "Dudes, seriously." How the fuck could we forget you?
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Aug 27th '09, 11:21

W wrote:Maybe Weland should have an option to fire up JUICE to take advantage of its visual mode.


Erm... have you ever opened up Visual Mode in Juice 1.1.1?
Toshiba Dynabook Satellite PAG4510PME
Windows XP Home Edition + Service Pack 3 (Japanese)
40GB HDD
512MB RAM

Still in full working condition....
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Comokanu

Post Aug 27th '09, 13:13

thermoplyae wrote:in the interest of staying on the edge of the limelight, "matching smithy's functionality" should be (loosely) interpreted as "frantically copying and translating smithy code" in posts above

Hmm, yes, I guess that implication was too subtle. The more difficult (for me) parts of a map editor (filling polygons, concavity detection, deleting stuff) are being translated directly from Smithy's ocaml into C#.

Responding to the other major concern in this thread, a JUICE-style visual mode isn't out of the question, but there are no good cross-platform OpenGL bindings for C# and GTK, so there will be no 3D view. Fortunately, Visual Mode.lua has you covered.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 27th '09, 13:30

Kudos to you, Treellama, for doing this. Crossplatform Drawmode + Visual Lua = Win.
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goran

Post Aug 27th '09, 14:10

I thought saying this was Smithy's successor implied Smithy was being assimilated here, but that's nice to know for sure. Smithy was a good effort!

Will you be using parts from MapEditorOne (also a good effort), aswell (e.g., multiple object/geometry selection via crossing window)?
Thank the sun that went nova so that Earth could have iron and silicon.
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effigy

Post Aug 27th '09, 14:28

No plans for multiple selection of anything, right now. Same as Forge.
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 27th '09, 15:23

comokanu wrote:Erm... have you ever opened up Visual Mode in Juice 1.1.1?

W'rk was one of JUICE's developers.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons
(.Y.)

Post Aug 27th '09, 21:26

Treellama wrote:Responding to the other major concern in this thread, a JUICE-style visual mode isn't out of the question, but there are no good cross-platform OpenGL bindings for C# and GTK, so there will be no 3D view. Fortunately, Visual Mode.lua has you covered.


The reason I wanted to have a visual mode in the program was because I like to look at my geometry before i save and hit aleph one.
D?rovací tvá?í.

Fobo: I find it hard to keep a sentence down under two paragraphs.
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tehWastedJamacan
SuFu, SD

Post Aug 28th '09, 09:43

irons wrote:W'rk was one of JUICE's developers.


What I'm trying to say is that the Visual Mode in that version of Juice is just a picture of a man labeled 'Marathon' injecting himself from a box of syringes named 'Forge Visual Mode'. Try it yourself! Lol.....
Toshiba Dynabook Satellite PAG4510PME
Windows XP Home Edition + Service Pack 3 (Japanese)
40GB HDD
512MB RAM

Still in full working condition....
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Comokanu

Post Aug 28th '09, 11:13

comokanu wrote:What I'm trying to say is that the Visual Mode in that version of Juice is just a picture of a man labeled 'Marathon' injecting himself from a box of syringes named 'Forge Visual Mode'. Try it yourself! Lol.....

Syringe Guy :C.
I have been wading in a long river and my feet are wet.
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L'howon
Somewhere outside the Citadel Of Antiquity

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