Marathon 1 Redux

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Re: Marathon 1 Redux

Post Jul 29th '19, 19:20

I’ll third what RADIX and Pfhorrest said: that throne room looks great. Wish I had more free time to really delve into this right now – maybe at the end of the year.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 30th '19, 03:06

Okay, made it to the library and the download worked just as I hoped! The 313.7 MiB zip file does not contain exploded map and images folders and weird git files, just the necessary stuff.

Since it's now buried on the previous page, here's the release:
https://github.com/ravenshining/M1R/releases/tag/0.0.13-alpha

And now, here's the updated Simplici7y page. Since the GitHub download is now equivalent to what I'd put on Simplici7y, this time I configured it so it there's a link that just downloads the zip file from GitHub rather than hosting it directly, in case that saves whoever operates Simplici7y anything.
http://simplici7y.com/items/marathon-1-redux

ravenshining wrote:Current goals:
LOTS more Lua!
Implement physics changes as voted on in previous polls
Theme plugin
HUD plugin
Some more 3D modelling perhaps
Possibly nix a lot of the staff/smg progression because it's not fun and a pain to keep track of the physics models
Maybe move the 1024x1024 textures into a plugin rather than having them on all the time?
Prologue hopefully


Also while looking for new screenshots I happened to snap this gem. Not showing anything that I haven't put in the thread before, but the timing was great.
Tryagain_0001.jpeg
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Jul 30th '19, 10:39

Everything looks so cool!
This is a great work! [MUp]
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Juzo-kun

Post Aug 4th '19, 00:20

Thank you!

Carpal tunnel is preventing me from getting much done, but I fix some things on the Epilogue today
• widened doors and corridors to prevent getting BoB-jammed
• fixed the sprite that teleports in
• hid teleporter polys from the map

Also apparently someone has been translating M1R into Japanese, and opened an issue requesting that I remove odd characters from filenames, so that's done.

Weekly merge (yeah all of one level different but I regret not having it properly done for 0.0.13):
https://github.com/ravenshining/M1R/raw ... 20Map.sceA
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 6th '19, 16:39

One report has come through that 0.0.13 is too dark overall, and I agree that I probably went too far in reducing the player light. I would like to have it dark, and implement a mechanic where light levels increase whenever you are holding the staff, though.

Another report came in of crashing upon starting a new game - this came from a windows user, and, like Eternal, the issue was solved by either lowering texture replacement resolution, or turning off the replacement landscape plugin. So, despite having fewer textures as Eternal, no bumpmaps, hardly any glowmaps, and no 2048x2048 wall textures, it appears I too have crossed the threshold of what Windows builds of Aleph One are capable of handling. I'll have to move the wall textures into a plugin and clean up the low-res walls.

After some heated disagreement with Wrkncacnter on Discord, I've added making a review of replacement textures to ensure they are true to the originals to the to-do list.

Finally, while trying to replicate a ShapeFusion bug, I failed to replicate the bug but added a new frame to the Fighter's 144° and 216° attack animation. For these rear views, Bungie's fighter simply re-used a pose. Now the rear-view fighter lights up its staff before swiping it, just as it does in front and quarter views:
3quartshock.png
3quartshock.png (3.42 KiB) Viewed 2603 times
https://github.com/ravenshining/M1R/raw/master/Redux%20Shapes.shpA

One final note, I want to figure out a new way of implementing those decorative railings. The fact that you can't glide along scenery objects is starting to bug me...
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 6th '19, 19:36

Would it work to put in a transparent wall texture, then raise the floor (or, depending on the level geometry, lower the ceiling) by, say, 0.5 WU (or however much) for 0.001 WU and use the transparent wall texture for the walls and the raised floor/lowered ceiling of the raised/lowered segment? That way you’d be using the engine’s handling of polygon walls for collision detection and players would glide along. Of course, this might create a subtle 0.001 WU gap in the floor/ceiling; I don’t know if players would notice. I also don’t know how this would look with renderers other than the shader. And you’d probably also want to make sure players couldn’t accidentally grenade jump into a gap and get stuck. (Probably possible to fix that, at least, by making sure you don’t have more than, say, 0.375 WU of space in between the two sides of the railing – and of course, this would only even be a problem with raised floors.)

I dunno, just brainstorming ideas, but it’s the first thing I’d try. Assuming I’ve understood what you want to do correctly, that is!

…oh, you could also just use strategically placed solid polygon boundaries, which would be even simpler. Though it would pose problems if you wanted players to be able to shoot over the railing, so you might have to fall back on my previous suggestion in those cases.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Aug 6th '19, 23:47

Darkness. The darkness is too intense in many places e.g. the cargo room in Bigger….

The staff acts like it sends up a flair and provides enough lasting light to do some limited exploring and do the jumping puzzle (but only if'n you know about the jumping puzzle's general pathway beforehand so the first time player is outta luck).

Exchange the infravision, where the jacquerie BoB's are hiding, with the invisibility. The infravision is useless where it's located but would be very useful where the invisibility is located and would be a good prize for finding it. The jacqueries would probably be more interested in an invisibility anyway.

Jumping. The grenades don't provide enough push to jump; unless there's another way to visit the invisible compilers and loot their ammo stash.

OSHA probably wouldn't like the impale yourself fences either.

Reset the circuit. You must have the AR to reset the circuit so can't return to get the AR without already having the AR. Well, almost. I did some experimenting and it takes me about three to five hits with a staff to reset it and by this time you may not have that many left. Probably all the bouncing around eventually puts me in just the right place. I'd reposition the barrels (if'n you can do that without much trouble) so you could hit it with a fist. Perhaps you could hit it while farther away.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 7th '19, 04:11

The Man wrote:suggested the AOPID method and using solid walls
HelviusRufus wrote:OSHA probably wouldn't like the impale yourself fences either.


If, and only if the railings are to be used - I may cut them - they must be destroyable. Solid lines are right out, and if I used Lua to raise and lower ploygons like in AOPID, then I'd also have to figure out some way of telling whether it's been hit with anything yet.

One idea I've toyed with is making thin platforms, with a transparent railing texture on the side MML'ed to act as a platform switch that lowers the platform and makes clank noises when hit. The active zone being off would be fine, since they would be set to only be activated by weapons anyway. The downside is that it involves adding a lot of thin polygons, and I don't know how well it would really work.

I used a "railing" texture on Blaspheme Quarantine actually, in an area where I do *not* want the player to pass.
Although I should have made it much thinner, you get the idea:

BlasphemeQuarantine_0005.jpeg



HelviusRufus wrote:Darkness. The darkness is too intense in many places e.g.


Yes, you are right, it is far too dark.

HelviusRufus wrote:Exchange the infravision, where the jacquerie BoB's are hiding, with the invisibility. The infravision is useless where it's located but would be very useful where the invisibility is located and would be a good prize for finding it. The jacqueries would probably be more interested in an invisibility anyway.


Good idea!

HelviusRufus wrote:Jumping. The grenades don't provide enough push to jump; unless there's another way to visit the invisible compilers and loot their ammo stash.


They haven't failed me in my tests? You do have to punch out the two bits of railing by the wall before you can grenade climb up there. Also, you can pole-vault with the staff, either facing backwards and down with primary or facing upwards and forward with secondary.

HelviusRufus wrote:Reset the circuit. You must have the AR to reset the circuit so can't return to get the AR without already having the AR. Well, almost. I did some experimenting and it takes me about three to five hits with a staff to reset it and by this time you may not have that many left. Probably all the bouncing around eventually puts me in just the right place. I'd reposition the barrels (if'n you can do that without much trouble) so you could hit it with a fist. Perhaps you could hit it while farther away.


lol, I never caught this in my tests because I, er, wasn't punching all switches, but using the action key. The staff can hit it, but you have to aim very high to clear the fallen barrel, placing crosshairs if you use them actually above the switch, because the shock originates very low.

For your future reference:

action key range = 1.5 WU
shock staff range = 1 WU
fist range = 0.75 WU
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 7th '19, 21:59

ravenshining wrote: using the action key.


Uh, yeah, I, uh, suppose you could do that, it just dint, uh, occur to me.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 8th '19, 14:37

I pledge to _____ ___ ________
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treellama
Pittsburgh

Post Aug 8th '19, 15:24

Yes, I fail at that criteria of vidmastery. -_- Also at murdering BoBs, but I've decided that doesn't apply to M1. M1 had no vidmaster's oath and relies on rescue missions, so M1R has that line altered to say "never, ever leave a single BoB's killer alive."

After all, the manual says it is your sworn duty to protect BoB.

I suppose BGN still works for vidmasters - you just have to be observant enough to know that staff-swipes go low ;-) Or just get it right the first time through if you're not doing an all-terminals run.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 8th '19, 20:25

Killing BoBs is a crime. All those responsible will be punished.
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Bobwithkeycard
AMS-Tower

Post Aug 11th '19, 14:35

Up on git:
• made the upright barrel in front of the breaker on BGN destroyable, so you can punch the switch
• player light increased to 0.3, enough to see your way across the next jump on BGN
• made railings look more like railings
• spaced out railings so they're not so annoying
• luaified Cool Fusion's vacuum chamber
• added a teleport flash to level entrances & player revives
• A1 has some stunlock-prevention code that runs only on Total Carnage. However, it doesn't happen in M1R because of the difficulty frame shift, it only happens on Insane. I can't replicate that functionality with lua, so instead, I added my smarter monster AI. I ironed out a bug where it wouldn't target players, refined the goal setting, and for M1R, set it to only call the function when difficulty is Total Carnage or higher.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 12th '19, 18:05

1. I don't like the killing o Bob's either and don't unless I'm trapped by them and even then I try a punch to see if'n that'll get em movin.

2. So you can break the posts by punching em; I know OSHA's not gonna like that.

3.Enclosed find a beautiful picture taken with my Brownie Holiday Flash. It's not a spoiler cause you gotta put forth some extra effort to achieve the conditions.
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I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 12th '19, 18:10

In a vacuum you can't hear exploding grenades, toasted Pfhor screaming, or anything else unless it physically smacks into your suit or comes over the radio.
Just sayin.
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 12th '19, 19:40

HelviusRufus wrote:In a vacuum you can't hear exploding grenades, toasted Pfhor screaming, or anything else unless it physically smacks into your suit or comes over the radio.
Just sayin.

on another note: can you really toast someone in vacuum? (..the vacuum toaster...might be a great product idea for Indiegogo.com , but I digress..)
I guess it's always a judgement call so there is a good balance between realism and gameplay

Otherwise you might have to turn off the sounds altogether...while being in a vacuum. Or do it like the VacBoBs, which radio in just to lay their death screams on you.
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Bobwithkeycard
AMS-Tower

Post Aug 12th '19, 21:37

Nice work getting all the way up there with the hypervision, HelviusRufus!

I'm not sure what you're saying about vacuum, are you saying I left in too much sound on G4 and NHNL? Or are you saying you like how sound has been reduced or eliminated?

Also, the flamethrower currently doesn't work in vacuum, so I'm not sure how you got to hear screaming toasted Pfhor. I plan on changing that so the secondary fire will work, but the secondary fire drains your oxygen as well as fuel. I'm not sure how that would affect people it gets sprayed on though. VacBobs I assume have their mics on vox rather than ptt.

The idea with G4 and NHNL is that it's not totally open to space, there's still some emergency shielding that the atmosphere is slowly leaking through (mentioned in one of the new terminals), but the area is too depressurised to breathe in or carry most sound. Only the most violent shock waves propagate to the player as a muffled thud - I felt it was more fun that way than to play with sound disabled entirely.

Now, if you leave either ship entirely - which is possible in two places - you'll soon find yourself dead.

If you're referring to the hangar on Arrival or the experimental vacuum chamber on Cool Fusion, I'm not sure if it's possible to muffle sounds and disable weapons for only part of a level, so for now I just put the "under media" ambient sound.

Or are you referring to the presence of sound on Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!? The idea there is that there is an atmosphere, just not one you can breathe- hence the thick grey smoke everywhere, normal physics, and the presence of non-vacuum-enabled enemies. Are you playing with fog disabled?

Hm, I should set up a default preferences file for M1R. I know other scenarios do that, but have yet to figure out how to go about it.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 14th '19, 03:40

ravenshining wrote: are you saying I left in too much sound on

no, just a general observation ( I think of it especially whenever I play Sakhmet Rising with all the noisy grenades).
I was just thinking that hearing naught but the monotony your breathing might be psychologically tense - which is why you have the music on in your headset.
Also, if a trooper came up and shot at you and missed, you wouldn't know it to take evasive action, so you'd be always lookin over your shoulder.

ravenshining wrote: the flamethrower currently doesn't work in vacuum, so I'm not sure how you got to hear screaming toasted Pfhor

Again just part of a general observation though as for the Pfhor napalm canon, I imagine it as firing discrete packets of napalm/oxidant mixture which is spark ignited at the muzzle so should work in a vacuum. The toaster, of course, doesn't work this way, but would still need a fuel/oxidant mixture to work in a vacuum.

ravenshining wrote:are you saying I left in too much sound on G4 and NHNL?

I haven't gotten that far yet, I'm still romping around BGN tho perhaps I'll pop over and take a quick run through G4, etc., to see what it's like.

A fun thing to do in Arrival is doorbell ring 'n' run. Go bang on the door then run up the stairs and watch the guard come out to see who's there... wait for it.

Bobwithkeycard wrote:so there is a good balance between realism and gameplay

yes, this is an important consideration.

Just my humble comments tho I do like responses that show why my opinion or idea is faulty or not workable (see my signature line).
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 14th '19, 14:55

In BGN, shouldn't Hamish's storage unit number have at least one 7 in it?
I just play 'em; I don't know how they work.
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HelviusRufus

Post Aug 14th '19, 18:41

HelviusRufus wrote:no, just a general observation


Ah, okay then. If anyone has any idea how I can suppress sound in just the vacuum areas of Arrival and Cool Fusion, please share your thoughts!

HelviusRufus wrote:A fun thing to do in Arrival is doorbell ring 'n' run. Go bang on the door then run up the stairs and watch the guard come out to see who's there... wait for it.


:-D

I have it scripted so if the fighter loses track of you, it'll run back for the airlock. However, the hangar is too open a space to lose sight of you in easily. If you quickly run past it and through the airlock, it should follow you with more dedication than a fighter normally would though.

HelviusRufus wrote:In BGN, shouldn't Hamish's storage unit number have at least one 7 in it?


Took me a second to figure out what you were talking about there! That's not BGN, that's just the texture Tim Vogel made for those stasis pods, and it looks to me like it already has a numerical reference ;-) I've considered blurring some of the text out, but that would look bad and I don't expect people to go around reading walls too often - unless they're looking for signs of MIDA, which should be spottable from a greater distance.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Aug 19th '19, 04:43

I thought I'd start going through the levels to make sure there are enough monsters to prevent the game from depopulating on Normal or being too easy on Total Carnage. Naturally, I only got as far as Defend THIS! before I got sidetracked with expansion work :-P

There are now two new doors that connect adjacent areas, which open once you've passed a certain point, so you can go back and explore the level in a non-linear fashion if you so desire - or if you don't want to trudge back through everything for that pattern buffer and 1x recharge.

There are also two new secret shortcuts, one of which goes straight to the end! However, it does not give you access to the end terminal. Why would you want to skip to the end only to have to go and run through the rest of the level anyway? Well, now you've activated the defense systems, haven't you? ;-) Sadly, even that wasn't enough to save these BoBs on a quick test on Total Carnage
DefendTHIS_bob.jpeg


A new underwater encounter necessitated some remodelling of the garbage overflow from a crude chute into a sinusoidal, ramping duct. Polygons in the sewage area have been marked as "glue" to prevent you from activating the fight above prematurely.
DefendTHIS_duct.jpeg


Added sounds, redistributeed co-op ammo, added scenery, made corridors easier to pass friendlies in, and it's come along quite nicely.

Some little things - setting the crusher to stop 0.001 WU before the top means you can still see the corpses of Pfhor you've lured into it's embrace:
DefendTHIS_corpse.jpeg


And here, making use of proper hazard markings. Both of these doors used to have a radiation hazard symbol - but, there's nothing dangerous going on either side of the right door, and there are explosives behind the left door. So the right door becomes a plain door, using the new split door textures, and the left door gets an explosives placard.
DefendTHIS_door.jpeg


Tycho terminals now oscillate instead of loop, which looks much better.

I've pulled in Tacticus's 2D Jjaro scenery - I assume that's okay since I'm already using your 3D M1 scenery, yes? They'll probably get replaced with 3D models down the line anyway.

Fixed a bug in the AI scripting that would cause it to activate on Normal and Major Damage.

Merged map up on git!
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

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