Eternal X 1.2

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.

Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Jul 13th '18, 07:33

If you mean this one:

Image

That's an old texture, and the one below it is its replacement. (I've been posting before-and-afters like that for a while now, and just stopped explicitly saying so after a bit). In any case, garage/hardware or more generally "industrial" is the aim of that subset of this texture set, as those are the "metal" textures. The "indoor" subset is the more more tailored for use in temples etc.

Tonight's update:
Screen Shot 2018-07-13 at 12.41.52 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-13 at 12.51.44 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-13 at 12.42.46 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-13 at 12.52.03 AM.jpg
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 18th '18, 07:06

tonight
Screen Shot 2018-07-17 at 10.33.17 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 12.27.14 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-17 at 10.33.34 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 12.27.29 AM.jpg

last one needs some obvious touchups. tomorrow.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 18th '18, 23:16

Looking good!
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Jul 19th '18, 05:17

thanks :)

touched these up tonight
Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 10.28.54 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 10.29.03 PM.jpg


and also updated these
Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 10.23.48 PM.jpg
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Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 10.24.01 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-18 at 10.28.44 PM.jpg
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 19th '18, 05:47

Those new ones look really freakin’ good. Probably my favourites in the Forerunner set so far.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 20th '18, 06:14

Thanks Aaron :)

I kinda borked up the Before textures for these ones so just raw files not screenshots for those tonight:
17.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-19 at 11.32.23 PM.jpg
18.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-19 at 11.32.33 PM.jpg


And that's the last of the 'normal' textures for the last texture set. Next week I'm going to try to cram in all the 'special' textures -- media, lights, and terminals on Tuesday, windows and doors on Wednesday, and charges and switches on Thursday -- hopefully aided by Wednesday being my birthday and a day off work. (My adulthood is becoming an adult. Soon my entire childhood will officially be just a minority of my life).

Then next month, I start in on the maps. I'm going to try to spend each of the next five months working on the five chapters, with one week for the intro branch, one week for the failure branch, and one week for the success branch of each, plus a week and change for catchup and things. Next month's "catchup" week will come first, as I tackle the pro-/epilogue and failure/success dream levels first of all. I will mostly just be spending one night per map (except for the duplicates of those that first week), and mostly just going through Ryoko's and Crater Creator's reviews and fixing the things that I can get fixed in a night, but I'll try to keep an eye out for egregiously bad examples of texturing and lighting and try to fix up as many of those as I can too. But I can't promise a lot in that respect. I'm sorry.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 23rd '18, 22:08

To make it easier for people to find old versions of Eternal, I've updated the Development page of the site with a list of links to all releases, and also to update the request for help to reflect the current state of affairs.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 23rd '18, 22:32

Pfhorrest wrote:To make it easier for people to find old versions of Eternal, I've updated the Development page of the site with a list of links to all releases, and also to update the request for help to reflect the current state of affairs.


That was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. Thanks for the page update! Really appreciated! Since 1.0.3 doesn't work too good either, I am going to try Mark V.
ForeverBlackened

Post Jul 24th '18, 00:06

I'm glad you like it. :-)

On an unrelated note, a week or two ago I started throwing together some super-simplified "template" textures as part of a post I intend to make at the end of the year about things I would have done differently in Eternal if I was starting over from scratch, but it occurred to me just now that I could slightly expand on those "templates" to produce a very simple flat un-detailed version of the complete texture set that nevertheless contains all the information needed for alignment and color-matching, but is otherwise so undecorated that the effects of lighting become much more apparent, and also the effects of misalignment too (because there's a literal "bright line" exactly where the edge of the texture should be aligned, instead of a mess of little details disguising it).

I'm thinking that I should maybe try to throw that together next week later this week (I'm still sorta-kinda on my "weekend" until tomorrow night) or early the week after (in case birthday and other plans leave me without enough time to do it this week), and then when I go through touching up things in the maps over the next five months, I can do so using those textures, and hopefully much more easily spot and fix bad lighting and alignment while I'm in there.

I could also just leave those in as the low-res textures in the shapes file, and people could turn off HD textures and play a weird JohannesG-esque minimalist version of Eternal if they wanted.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 24th '18, 02:31

I think you should go a step further and make shapes with no textures at all. Just color.
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Wrkncacnter

Post Jul 24th '18, 04:20

And Trump.
ForeverBlackened

Post Jul 24th '18, 22:14

I meant to write here earlier, but post flood control is a pain in the arse.

If you follow the schedule above, does that mean you’ll be getting to chapters four and five in November and December? I’ll attempt to get my own modifications done by then. Maybe I’ll take a closer look at them later this week.

I should note that I feel that chapter five needs the most radical changes – which I think is a pretty common opinion. I remember all the levels in the last chapter used to start you off with seven zero-point modules and most of them gave you the gravitronic blades, but in the current version, this no longer seems to be the case. I think this should be restored – the current versions seem awfully hard, especially when scratch starting.

The other thing that should change, of course, is the endless swarms of enemies. It’s just… impossible on higher difficulty settings. You could cut the number in half and there would still be too many. The respawn rate should perhaps be cut to, say, a fifth or even a tenth of its current value, and the “minimum count” value should probably be dropped to zero for all of the enemies.

I may have more detailed commentary on some of the specific levels later, though I remember it being common agreement that “Deep Into the Grotto” and the levels after it had the worst problems with the swarms of enemies.

The new textures look great.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 24th '18, 23:18

Regarding level tweaks--I feel like I mentioned this before somewhere, but I'd give the player more time to outrun the rising coolant in "This Message Will Self-Destruct", if the escape sequence is going to be kept. Practically the moment the wires are broken, you're up to your shins in coolant; a ten-second head start would be really helpful.
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Jul 25th '18, 01:20

The Man wrote:If you follow the schedule above, does that mean you’ll be getting to chapters four and five in November and December?

Yep.

I’ll attempt to get my own modifications done by then. Maybe I’ll take a closer look at them later this week.

Awesome.

And your comments and Radix's are already on my to-do list, since my to-do list is Ryoko's and Crater Creator's reviews, and I'm pretty sure those things are all mentioned in there.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 25th '18, 03:13

I may have a gander at altering the monster quantities on those levels myself and putting the zero-point modules in; it shouldn’t be that difficult. I’m almost half tempted to make the zero-point modules respawn as well, just because there shouldn’t be a remote chance of players running out of them if they’re the only thing that damage the enemies (and I think they were, at least, in previous versions of the game). Alternately, you could just alter monster physics so that the monsters drop zero-point modules, which would fit in much better with established game behaviour and make it so players wouldn’t have to double back to the start of a level where they ran out. You’d easily end up with far more ammo than you’d ever use on TC, but you already get that with other ammo (e.g. the ridiculous amount of ammo on “Third Rock from Lh’owon”, which I guess has become the “Roots and Radicals” of this iteration of Eternal), so who cares. Unless the enemies are vulnerable to fists/other weapons, the ammo shouldn’t be the challenge on those levels.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 25th '18, 06:35

Please do alter the monster quantities! Also keep in mind that they are different monsters now than they were before, so different placement entirely may be warranted.

I do want the first level of the chapter to have no grav blades, to impress fear on the player ala The Manipulated Dead where we first encounter banshees and just have to run like fuck holy shit from them.

The grav blades have ridiculously high ammo already, and I wouldn't mind if it was effectively limitless, if other people think that's a good idea.

W'rkncacnter dreams dropping ZPMs is a definite no go though because that makes no sense whatsoever.

Tonight's progress:
Screen Shot 2018-07-24 at 9.11.30 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-24 at 11.36.26 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-24 at 9.11.47 PM.jpg
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Also, happy birthday to me.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 25th '18, 07:44

Happy birthday indeed! Your birthday isn’t too far from mine, which is coming up in a few weeks.

Evil (and Chronicles) basically made the staff for all intents and purposes limitless by giving each trigger 32,767 shots. I vote for doing the same thing to the blades. They can still reload with ZPMs. (ETA: It would probably also be easy to make them actually limitless with Lua, come to think of it.)

I’ll also keep that in mind about the monsters. I doubt I’ll be playing the final chapter on TC anytime soon but I can probably at least get a good idea what it’ll be like for actual Vidmasters by playing on MD or Normal.

New textures look lovely as usual.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 25th '18, 22:31

Happy birthday! ^^

I especially like how the texture in the last pic turned out; looks a lot more marble-y.
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Jul 26th '18, 06:15

Thanks Radix, though that's supposed to be water so I'm not sure marbly is a good thing. I was satisfies with how that looked anyway though.

Tonight's updated, but I forgot to take proper before pics:
1-ForerunnerDoorWhole.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 11.35.34 PM.jpg
1-ForerunnerDoorSplit.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 11.35.52 PM.jpg
1-ForerunnerWindows.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 11.27.49 PM.jpg


need to turn down the bump depth on those door logos, and turn it up on the glass corrugation
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 26th '18, 07:03

FWIW, it looked like water to me. I can sort of see it looking like either, though.

Nice textures in any case.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 27th '18, 08:59

jesus mother fucking christ i am about to start just murdering random apple employees until i feel like ive gotten adequate revenge on whoever the fuck is responsible for this computer being such a complete and unreasonable sack of shit

wasted probably something like three hours tonight, out of a planned three hour work schedule, waiting on this sack of shit to OPEN AND SAVE SOME FUCKING FILES JESUS FUCK

shit for tonight, with no before shots because my fuckgiving capacity has been far exceeded for this evening:

the fucking corrugated glass still doesn't even look right jesus
Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 1.39.29 AM.jpg


these door logos are better at least
Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 1.39.54 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 1.40.28 AM.jpg


these are the motherfuckers that for no fucking reason took hours to do anything with just because of those fucking swirlies in the center. i was going to do more with them but i was happy just to get the fucking files closed at last
Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 1.40.50 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 1.40.41 AM.jpg


and for once the goddamn switches weren't the worst of it, and even though this is an obvious ripoff of the pfhor switches because aint nobody got time for anything better than that, i do kinda like that tron look
Screen Shot 2018-07-27 at 1.41.33 AM.jpg
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earlier today i also threw together those stupid little outline/template what the fuck evers and was going to put those into the shapes file so they're there when is start mapping next week but i was supposed to be asleep hours ago and i won't have any time to get to it until i'm supposed to be mapping already so can I bug someone else to please put these into the shapes file over the weekend so im not even further behind schedule next week? its just the same files in every set, why the fuck can't shapefusion export and import whole sets of collection bitmaps like anvil could or i would have been done wiht it already yself

...

also alpha 5 is up
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 27th '18, 15:32

Sorry you’re having such computer problems. New stuff looks good at any rate.

I might’ve overestimated how many monsters needed to be taken out of the first couple levels of the Jjaro chapter. I’m not sure how you can get swarms of enemies without making the levels borderline impossible. I went through revised versions of the first two on TC with little trouble, despite the fact that I never actually located the damn gravitronic blades. (Are they still in “Echoes of Eden”? Where? I picked up all the items I could find on the map. Are they in the other levels? Again, where?) And once I killed the initial enemies, the levels did seem rather sparse. So maybe they need to respawn a little bit more than 25%. I’ll try 50% after work and see what I think.

I’ll post a video after work, too, maybe, and people can decide what they think. I died on “These Caves Can’t Be a Natural Formation”.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 27th '18, 22:46

Thanks Aaron, and thanks for focusing on chapter 5, since it seems to be the worst and need it most.

I think the grav blades might no longer be on Echoes of Eden, but instead just at the start of The Dead Live In The Catacombs. I think I was going for one level of holyshitmotherfuckerness to impress a fear of the W'rkncacnter dreams on you, before you get the all-powerful one-hit-juggernaut-killing weapons of mass destruction to counter them.

If it's generally agreed that that makes the game worse, though, go ahead and change it.

Regarding my request last night:
Pfhorrest wrote:earlier today i also threw together those stupid little outline/template what the fuck evers and was going to put those into the shapes file so they're there when is start mapping next week but i was supposed to be asleep hours ago and i won't have any time to get to it until i'm supposed to be mapping already so can I bug someone else to please put these into the shapes file over the weekend so im not even further behind schedule next week?

I unexpectedly found time to take care of that today, and so I went ahead and reuploaded last night's alpha 5 with that rolled in so others can see it if they want. It's not quite as Suzannah-esque as I expected when I came up with the idea; instead it kind of looks like everything is made of cardboard and plywood wrapped in Tyvek, a sort of fitting "under construction" feel if I say so myself. I also packaged the HD textures up into a proper plugin so that I can turn them off easily.

On that note though, I do have another special request for anyone who feels like it. I'd like to try to get as much as possible from the Eternal-Data and Scripts folders turned into plugins for the Plugins folder. Some of it should be straightforward, but some things like the relationship between the Eternal-Guns plugin and the xhd-weapons.mml script are complicated and need sorting out. Anybody feel like doing that, and posting the resulting plugins here?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Jul 28th '18, 01:33

No problem; I want to see the gameplay fixed too. Ideally, I’d like the whole game to be at a state where someone can vid every level, which it obviously isn’t right now. (A great thing about Eternal’s model of having weapons picked up from enemies is that it means it requires less dichotomy between ordinary gameplay and scratch-start gameplay, so there should be fewer changes required for this to be feasible than there would be for, say, a scenario like Phoenix.) Obviously I’m biased since I run a YouTube channel for vid films, but I think it should be pretty easily doable.

Anyway, the final chapter obviously requires the largest number of gameplay changes, both for that purpose and just in general. There are a few other levels where the gameplay might be questionable (“My Kingdom Pfhor a Horse” sticks out), but overall, most of it seems fairly well balanced to me, apart from the last chapter.

But, as I said, I think I overcorrected, at least for the first two levels. I might try altering the monster respawn rate to 100%, but still leaving the minimum number of each monster at zero.

Regarding the grav blades: I didn’t see them on either level. I get what you were going for with “Echoes of Eden”, and it might make sense. Depending upon what the monster respawn rate is, it might not even be a problem. The wave motion cannon is an effective enough weapon against the enemies as long as there are enough zero-point modules. If it does end up being a problem, I’d probably place the blades with Hathor’s terminal, which I think was where the largest cache of ammo was (I might be misremembering).

What object are the blades in Weland, BTW?

The other big concern is the physics for the grav blades. I think I like Evil’s method of having 32,767 shots per trigger for the interim, but ideally, this could be a thing we’d pull off with Lua to make them literally unlimited. They’re blades; they shouldn’t have a shot limit, unless the idea is that swinging them drains the battery. (But… how?) I guess there’s an electrical charge on the fighter staff too, though, so whatever. Still, the shots should be effectively unlimited unless we decide to make the ZPMs regenerate on each level.

(The fighter staff is actually another case of fridge logic for me. I can understand having the projectile trigger drain, since it presumably requires electricity of some sort to fire, but the melee charge – it’s a staff. You swing it. As far as I can tell, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to keep swinging it indefinitely. I don’t know how you’d implement this in the engine, though. It would presumably take Lua.)

I’ll encode films of my gameplay for the first two modified levels and post them later tonight, and people can decide what they think after viewing them.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Jul 28th '18, 06:43

About to head off to bed. YouTube says it’s still processing this video, but hopefully it finishes over the next hour or two, or certainly while I’m asleep. Echoes of Eden & The Dead Live in the Catacombs

Thoughts welcome – I’m certain I reduced the number of monsters too radically, but I’m open to how many of them I should restore.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

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